INGOer Teaches INGO Why Loaded Guns Matter

[ArcadiaGP]

Quit it with the snowflake act.

I am saving lives, if that offends you, good, it means you are paying attention.

Ah gotcha. You're doing the high and mighty thing.

No thanks, I've had my fill of that crap from other members who are far better at it than you.

Also starting to remember you toss around SJW terms a lot where they don't apply at all. Just sounded cool, thought they'd make you feel bigger than everyone? Yeah, seen that before.

No Mr Freeman, peppering your posts with "snowflake" and "offended" won't make you hip.

 

[indiucky]

Oh noes... is this another let's dog pile on Kirk when you don't agree with him thread again.? Don't let them get to you Kirk, which I'm sure they don't.

I keep Kirk in my head when I am handling my firearms...He sounds like Thurston Howell III when he pops in....

"Now Indiucky I know you want to keep what passes for "dirt road cred" among your people but do you really think twirling that six shooter on your finger is a smart move????? You know it's your accent I mock when I say things...."

"GET OUT OF MY HEAD YOU SLIMEBALL LAWYER!!!!! GO CHASE AN AMBULANCE OR SOMETHING!!!!!! GO EAT SOME RAW FISH YUPPIE SCUM!!!!!!"

"Honey are you all right???? Why are you yelling??? I thought you were going to watch a cowboy movie downstairs....Why aren't you twirling your sixgun???? Did that mean old Cavalier lawyer ruin cowboy movie time again for you???"

"Yes....I mean imagine hearing the words of Jeff Cooper and Elmer Keith coming from the mouth of a sushi eating yuppie who hates the South...It's awful sweetie......And they made him a Kentucky Colonel now....Imagine that...A fellow Kentucky Colonel...Hey didn't you used to be Catholic????"

"I still am.."

"What??? Your people used to burn my people at the stake....I thought you were on the Protestant train with me??? Never mind..Call a priest...An exorcist....I want him gone for good...."

"Honey a priest can not exorcise a lawyer and send them back to hell....By very definition criminal defense lawyers are already in hell...."

"I went up there once honey...To Canada...It's very flat where he is and they even have a lake named "Freeman"...I mean how can they name a lake Freeman when a man named Freeman hates freedom so much???? They're crazy up there but the pheasants are wild and worthy of pursuit.....It's just so flat..."

 

[jamil]

If you said (or thought) he should have checked the chamber and that would have solved the problem... Well you've missed the boat.

The first rule of gun safety is either A. All guns are always loaded; or B. Treat all guns as if they are loaded (depending on who you ask). It does not have anything to do with verifying the status of the firearm. The folks who are saying "oh, well he should have checked the chamber" are missing the point of rule number 1 entirely.

We don't do gun handling things with any gun that we cannot do with a loaded gun. There should only be one set of gun handling protocols available to you and they are the ones for a loaded gun.

What's the gun handling protocol for cleaning? It's not that I disagree with you. It's that I'd like a bit more recognition for the fact that as a matter of practicality we handle guns differently, depending on the purpose. When we're preparing to take my plasticware apart for cleaning, I remove the mag, clear the chamber, point in a safe direction, press the trigger, then go through the disassembly steps. I typically clean my guns in the garage. There are no circumstances other than a defensive situation, under which I'd actuate the trigger in my garage with a loaded gun, or a gun that I had not just cleared. But even though I've just cleared it, I point it in the safest direction available to actuate the trigger so I can take it down.

You could say the same thing about dry fire. When I dry fire practice I do things with my cleared firearm that I'd never do with it in the house if I did not know its status. Even if I take Kirks advice to do my dry-fire practice pointing towards a 5 gallon bucket of sand, I would not do that if I had not cleared the firearm prior. So my point is that knowing the gun's status is important for the intentions we have for the specific reason to handle the gun. If I'm holstering it to carry, I verify it's loaded status. If I'm going to do maintenance or dryfire, I'm going to clear it.

 

[M67]

Damn. Must spread some reputation around before I get GP again

 

[jamil]

Oh noes... is this another let's dog pile on Kirk when you don't agree with him thread again.? Don't let them get to you Kirk, which I'm sure they don't.

I kinda thing this has nothing to do with disagreeing with Kirk on the topic of gun safety. It's more about the tendency to refer to a specific person or attitude as "INGO", when speaking about it. A lot of us kinda do that jokingly, as bwframe said. I've done it. How many times do we see someone say something like, "I've learned on INGO that...". Or attribute an entire philosophy to "INGO" as if INGO is that person or philosophy or habit, those are unique or uniquely bad things about INGO.

It's fine as a humorous literary device to a point. I don't think most people who do it have any contempt for INGO. But I think Kirk gets some flack for it because maybe when Kirk does it, it comes off that way, especially since he tends to do it a lot.

I guess it's kinda like with my son. He's at the age now where we joke a lot with each other, but there's a point where it can grow into disrespect. Harmless banter when carried too far, too long, stops being harmless, and I tell him to be mindful of that.

I don't care care for anyone making a negative reference to INGO or INGOers as a whole.

While there are certainly INGOers that are naive to safe gun handling, even some who are insolent to standard gun safety rules, that is certainly not all of us. It is counterproductive to use INGO as any kind of derogatory term and should be a concern of all of us, including members who mistakenly do it.

I have been guilty of this INGO negative behavior in the past, as have a lot of others. A lot of us have posted, "What was the INGO user name?" referring to a news post about bad gun handling or behavior. I have learned that this is wrong and leads to others mimicking the subtle reference that all INGOers are waiting around for the next Darwin award.

Hopefully we all can set proper examples and educate the members that need it through positive example rather than negative grouping and shaming.

That last part is probably more to the crux. Like I said, I think when it's just harmless banter, and it's made obvious enough that's all it is, no harm. But if you're talking about a serious topic, it's probably better just to talk about behaviors than trying to shame "INGO". Besides, to Kirk's consternation, not every INGOer wears a tactical beard.

 

[churchmouse]

In his own way I believe/know Kirk has an agenda......keeping shooters safe. All shooters.

In his belittlement of Ingoer's in general I get a bit miffed myself but that is not and should not be the focus when we read these posts.
Kirk....we need to meet for some charred beef parts and pieces.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

It's fine as a humorous literary device to a point. I don't think most people who do it have any contempt for INGO. But I think Kirk gets some flack for it because maybe when Kirk does it, it comes off that way, especially since he tends to do it a lot.

If Kirk responded to my initial question saying that this was the case, then no harm, no foul. I know I'm not the only person that's noticed it from him, though. Posts can be in-character, or they can be natural. I wasn't sure if he was talking down to people naturally, or just doing the humorous "INGO user" thing.

His silly response, however, shows me what he's doing. Like an ATM-lite.

That last part is probably more to the crux. Like I said, I think when it's just harmless banter, and it's made obvious enough that's all it is, no harm. But if you're talking about a serious topic, it's probably better just to talk about behaviors than trying to shame "INGO". Besides, to Kirk's consternation, not every INGOer wears a tactical beard.

I wish I could grow a tac-beard...

 

[M67]

In his own way I believe/know Kirk has an agenda......keeping shooters safe. All shooters.

Then why isn't he preaching traffic safety and lecturing people in the middle of the street instead of the holier than thou you dumb rednecks crap?

 

[LarryC]

If you said (or thought) he should have checked the chamber and that would have solved the problem... Well you've missed the boat.

The first rule of gun safety is either A. All guns are always loaded; or B. Treat all guns as if they are loaded (depending on who you ask). It does not have anything to do with verifying the status of the firearm. The folks who are saying "oh, well he should have checked the chamber" are missing the point of rule number 1 entirely.

We don't do gun handling things with any gun that we cannot do with a loaded gun. There should only be one set of gun handling protocols available to you and they are the ones for a loaded gun.

While I am avid proponent of firearms safety, I'm 76 Years old, been shooting and handling firearms for over 60 years, and am proud to say I have never had a AD or ND (YET). I rather disagree with your last statement.

You cannot properly inspect the bore of, or the finish or several other items of a firearm, nor clean it, without pointing it at something you would never point a loaded firearm. I 100% verify ANY firearm I pick up to ensure it is unloaded. When possible I remove the magazine, lock the bolt open,visually verify the chamber is empty, if a revolver, I open the cylinder or verify all cylinder are empty before handling, inspecting or cleaning. As an example, I went to the CMP store, picking out a Garand, while inspecting the stock finish, metal finish, bolt action, bore, there was absolutely no way I could treat it like a loaded firearm, when I picked one up from the rack, I opened the bolt and ensured the chamber and the mag was empty, then I rotated the rifle into various positions to inspect the various attributes, including looking down the bore from the muzzle. There is NO way I would do this to a firearm I hadn't ensured was not loaded.

I have no fault in treating every firearm as if it is loaded, including brand new one I am looking to purchase.. However I do state that there is no way to inspect or clean the gun (without first verifying it is completely unloaded) then pointing it in an (unsafe) direction sometime during inspection or cleaning. COMMON SENSE MUST ALWAYS PREVAIL WHEN TOUCHING OR HANDLING FIREARMS!

 

[halfmileharry]

That hurt me just looking at the pictures, but it is just unbelievable that this person did this twice in 15 years, and a LEO to boot!

I know a LEO that's got 4 NDs. YES FOUR NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES

 

[BE Mike]

You seem to have this perpetually condescending tone with regards to INGO and INGO-members.

Am I picking up on that wrong?

I think you are getting the wrong idea. He's just always hammering away at firearm safety. I've been seriously into shooting since the early 70's, not including previous military service. I know I cannot get enough good reminders of how safe I need to be and continually improve my safe gun handling habits. I know some guys that are so used to handling guns that they have become complacent and unsafe. I don't want to be one of those guys. Some folks get insulted if someone points out their unsafe practice...NOT ME! I hope he keeps it up.

 

[NIFT]

I know a LEO that's got 4 NDs. YES FOUR NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES

How many were catastrophic, meaning someone was injured?

 

[churchmouse]

Then why isn't he preaching traffic safety and lecturing people in the middle of the street instead of the holier than thou you dumb rednecks crap?

Captive audience and hopefully a willing audience. Hopefully.

And this is a heck of a lot safer.

 

[halfmileharry]

How many were catastrophic, meaning someone was injured?

None. Lucky SOB. There has been some real monetary damage.

 

[rhino]

I killed my brother's brand new chronograph back in the 90s. It wasn't a negligent discharge, just poor marksmanship. I was also a good lesson in the potential consequences of bullets going where you don't want them to go.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ah gotcha. You're doing the high and mighty thing.

No thanks, I've had my fill of that crap from other members who are far better at it than you.

No, I am teaching and saving lives and all I get is whimpering about me.

Don't point gd guns at yourself or anything else that doesn't need a bullet. It is always loaded.

Stop whining that I am taking away your fun by insisting on discipline and education. I am protecting all of us by educating.

 

[halfmileharry]

No, I am teaching and saving lives and all I get is whimpering about me.

Don't point gd guns at yourself or anything else that doesn't need a bullet. It is always loaded.

Stop whining that I am taking away your fun by insisting on discipline and education. I am protecting all of us by educating.

You running for office Kirk?
I think your nagging and whipping up on those with problematic gun handling is good.

 

[churchmouse]

No, I am teaching and saving lives and all I get is whimpering about me.

Don't point gd guns at yourself or anything else that doesn't need a bullet. It is always loaded.

Stop whining that I am taking away your fun by insisting on discipline and education. I am protecting all of us by educating.

Yup.....Cheeseburgers.....with bacon........On good buns.

 

[Fullmag]

I think you are getting the wrong idea. He's just always hammering away at firearm safety. I've been seriously into shooting since the early 70's, not including previous military service. I know I cannot get enough good reminders of how safe I need to be and continually improve my safe gun handling habits. I know some guys that are so used to handling guns that they have become complacent and unsafe. I don't want to be one of those guys. Some folks get insulted if someone points out their unsafe practice...NOT ME! I hope he keeps it up.

Agree ^^^ no military service, learned about gun safety in Boy Scouts in 70s.

Really don't get why everybody is being so sensitive....ohhh my....is it reminding them of something they did wrong the other day.

We must be diligent to stay safe.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

No, I am teaching and saving lives and all I get is whimpering about me.

Don't point gd guns at yourself or anything else that doesn't need a bullet. It is always loaded.

Stop whining that I am taking away your fun by insisting on discipline and education.

If I can borrow a phrase from a great midwest philosopher... not sure of their name...

Quit it with the snowflake act

Now who's playing the victim? You must be very aware that there is a way of educating and informing without condescending to your audience. Share these stories, share these incidents... if that's your goal... but try doing it without treating the audience like idiots. When "INGO" is a derogatory term to you... it comes across even through text on a forum.

Also... saving lives... c'mon. As a local nobody that shares articles on the internet... that's a bit of a high-bar to set.

I am protecting all of us by educating.

I don't recall any effective teacher walking into the classroom, saying "Alright idiots, look at what this person that has nothing to do with you did. See how dumb they are? Now reflect upon yourselves, plebs."