INGO member in handcuffs

[Indy317]

I realize not all police officers are "gun people". In my experiences, police officers that are "into" guns seem to be in the minority. Is there a need for more or better firearms training? Should officers at the academies be exposed to the various types of firearms and their safe operation?

This should happen, maybe it will in the future. Some cops figure their 46+ rounds are plenty. They have no concept of "battlefield pick-up." Even for officers with rifles, some think, everything will be over before they ever run out of ammo. They see no need to familiarize themselves with common weapons that criminals use: Various handguns, SKS rifles, AK rifles, AR rifles.

In addition, I would like more focus on teaching officers they need to constantly read various legal statues, and try to their best to memorize them. Unfortunately, some officers don't do this, and in some cases, officers have no idea what the law specifically says. There are also some issues with officers determining if they have reasonable suspicion to stop, and in some cases, probable cause to arrest.

The fact remains, not enough good, logical people want to do the job. That is all there is too it. The job also draws a lot of folks who actually want to be in positions of power over others, and they see a badge as a way to achieve that.

 

[oldfb]

I guess my opinion is that currently when people see a mwag be it concealed or openly carried in absence of a badge or uniform it scares the sheeple and LEO in general.

Perhaps this is because of the very real possibility the gun toting person is suspected of wrong doing.

As more people are witnesses to lawful carry I believe the possibility for deterrence increases at an unknown rate.

The whack jobs that go on shooting rampages count on their ability to enter and perform their cowardly crimes or executions before any viable response or show of force can be brought to them. Many have no real hope of survival even choosing suicide once they have vented their rage.

If having armed citizens openly carrying can make them the first shot(debatable at best) wouldn't a larger group of open carry tend to deter more of the less zealous whack jobs from believing their petty yet lethal tantrums will be successful.

Seriously these nutso people count on having 3-15 minutes of uninterrupted trigger time. An armed citizenship must deter as well as afford the badguys less time. While the zealot nutcases may plan better in the future I believe the visibly armed citizens merely serve to augment law enforcements presence once society is forced to admit that they have nothing to fear from the legal members who choose to carry a firearm.

Fear is the real issue these demonstrations are trying to over come and I for one am tired of being asked if I am a cop when someone sees my holster or gun.

Until the public no longer thinks gun means cop or criminal this type of LEO encounter will continue.

Lurkers, don't listen to Joe. Indiana law is clear, carrying a handgun, concealed or open, is a crime. Connected to that law is another law, that says if a person has a license, or fits into a list of positions, one is not in violation of carrying a handgun.

Since the law says no handguns on your person, then if an officer sees a person with a handgun, there is absolutely reasonable suspicion to stop that person and investigate a possible criminal violation. The scope of this stop has yet to be determined by Indiana courts. There have been three cases dealing with this, in some form or fashion. You folks can believe JW, or you can believe the law.

There has been no case law, based on an Indiana case, that states anything like what JW is spouting. I ask him to prove this, and he won't be able to. He or others may post case laws, but read them carefully, and decide for yourself if they are relevant or not. If you are unsure, you should consult a defense attorney.



I agree. It won't be about criminals, it will be about the chaos that seems to happen when state agents get involved with calls about OCing MWAG (and sometimes those where the gun is CC, but someone still sees it). A person in Ft. Wayne taken down at gunpoint. A guy at a gas station getting a Marion Co. Deputy telling him he has to cover it. The guys working on the strip mall down near Stop 11 and Emerson. And now this case.



I'm not talking about you. I'm talking in general when police see a person(s) with handguns. Some are trying to see there is no RS to even stop a person. Others say cops should investigate, but can only do x, y, and/or z. Others say even other more bizarre things, I'm just trying to give some basic info and let folks decide for themselves. There is no law about carrying long guns on your person, out in public, etc. that I know of (yes, there are hunting laws, but obviously this isn't anything near that).

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

 

[Eddie]

Actually, not. The vapors is a term for what used to be diagnosed as "female hysteria" which was considered to be a female specific neurotic disorder.

PM me if you want to know how they treated it. Fascinating, really.

The movie "The Road to Wellville" has a depiction of a person treating females with hysteria.

 

[machete]

This should happen, maybe it will in the future. Some cops figure their 46+ rounds are plenty. They have no concept of "battlefield pick-up." Even for officers with rifles, some think, everything will be over before they ever run out of ammo. They see no need to familiarize themselves with common weapons that criminals use: Various handguns, SKS rifles, AK rifles, AR rifles.

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!! Why do officers carry rifles anyway? This aint Iraq and we don't have targets getting engaged at 300 yards. The overpenetration of a rifle in an urban enviroment is really scary. Seems like too much to me. I think they should stick with Glock fo-tays.

 

[Fargo]

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!! Why do officers carry rifles anyway? This aint Iraq and we don't have targets getting engaged at 300 yards. The overpenetration of a rifle in an urban enviroment is really scary. Seems like too much to me. I think they should stick with Glock fo-tays.

Why would we make absolutely certain the police cannot defeat any BG wearing body armor? That whole scenario didn't work out so well in North Hollywood and Tyler Texas.

Tyler courthouse shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plus, I'd rather have TAP style 5.56 round hitting my house than .40 S&W. The chances of hit coming apart on the way in are way better.

Best,

Joe

BTW, I consider Mark Wilson of Tyler Texas to be a true hero in addition to having about the biggest brass pair around. Its just too bad he grabbed a handgun instead of a rifle.

 

[public servant]

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!!

You don't get out much...do you?

Pick up a newspaper.

 

[ATM]

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!! Why do officers carry rifles anyway? This aint Iraq and we don't have targets getting engaged at 300 yards. The overpenetration of a rifle in an urban enviroment is really scary. Seems like too much to me. I think they should stick with Glock fo-tays.

Careful machete, this line of thought brought all of us the "Assault Weapon Ban" back in 1994.

Don't borrow from that playbook.

 

[SSGSAD]

Really?
To me, the biggest problem is the overstepping the officers had shown by abusing their power, violating citizen's rights.
Lack of knowledge of firearms is also a concern, but not even close in comparison to the gross negligence they have for the oath they swore to uphold.

I am glad that you filed a complaint, and hope all goes well... Keep us posted, and let us know if there is anything we can do... Looking forward to more info, as this progresses through the channels....

 

[VUPDblue]

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!! Why do officers carry rifles anyway? This aint Iraq and we don't have targets getting engaged at 300 yards. The overpenetration of a rifle in an urban enviroment is really scary. Seems like too much to me. I think they should stick with Glock fo-tays.

Your information is inaccurate. All of it.

 

[ISHOOTHST'S]

When you oc

 

[Indy317]

What????!!!!!

Indy aint no battlefield. We aint that bad...yet!!!! Why do officers carry rifles anyway? This aint Iraq and we don't have targets getting engaged at 300 yards. The overpenetration of a rifle in an urban enviroment is really scary. Seems like too much to me. I think they should stick with Glock fo-tays.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events. The bad guys are using battle rifles, some of them even put on ballistic vests. Rare? The wearing of a vest is rare, but it is becoming more and more common to see a long gun involved in an incident. For at least a decade (if no longer) there was at least one gun store in town selling half-way decent semi-auto AK-47s anywhere from $300-$450 depending on when you went into to get one. I saw one guy walk out with two or three one time. Obviously plenty of folks think Indy, or anywhere for that matter, could become a war zone. This is why folks are buying battle rifles, for what may come, because such a weapon provides great defense capabilities. On the flip side of that, the more AKs and ARs that are sold, the more that are likely stolen and end up in the hands of criminals.

If criminals are using long guns, they usually have better accruacy and more power. I have no problem with cops having the same. I want them to be able to match what they could find on the street. Obviously I don't think they should get RPGs, but then again if someone is firing off RPGs, I don't think your basic patrol unit should have to confront such a person head-on. If that means a slight delay while they use better, safer, approch tactics, so be it. I believe this applies to battle rifles as well. If the cops are forced to go to battle with someone with an AK, and all they have are their pistols, I can't fault the cops for nothing confronting better armed threats immediately using head-on tactics.

If I was forced to stick with my Glock, then don't demand that I go and confront someone with a long gun. Despite the desires of some, cops can't be as stupid and dumb as they were decades ago when the law of the land said shooting a fleeing felon, reguardless of the underlying felony, was perfectly fine. While some cops act stupid from time to time, most aren't, and the more PC logic like the above gets into LE, the harder it will be for LEOs to do what needs to be done to keep the peace.

 

[SavageEagle]

You don't get out much...do you?

Pick up a newspaper.

Screw that. I know places around Indy that would make him pee his pants!

When you oc

NICE! I'd rep you but I"m out.

 

[public servant]

I know places around Indy that would make him pee his pants!

You've been to Mars Hill?

 

[down3green]

Pick up a newspaper.

.

They still making those?


.

 

[SavageEagle]

You've been to Mars Hill?

Heck, I used to have a friend that lived there!

 

[jeremy]

Careful machete, this line of thought brought all of us the "Assault Weapon Ban" back in 1994.

Don't borrow from that playbook.

Personally I think ALL the LEAs should have to play by the same carry rules and laws as the law abiding Citizen. If it is bad for Joe Average American to own then the LEA should not be allowed to have it either...

 

[SavageEagle]

Personally I think ALL the LEAs should have to play by the same carry rules and laws as the law abiding Citizen. If it is bad for Joe Average American to own then the LEA should not be allowed to have it either...

I would rep you, but I'm out. So instead... Well put and couldn't agree more!

 

[Jeremiah]

Personally I think ALL the LEAs should have to play by the same carry rules and laws as the law abiding Citizen. If it is bad for Joe Average American to own then the LEA should not be allowed to have it either...

If another AWB happens in my lifetime. I'll be leading the charge to make sure the LEO community is in line with regs of that ban, and that they carry limited cappacity weapons as well

 

[Roadie]

Personally I think ALL the LEAs should have to play by the same carry rules and laws as the law abiding Citizen. If it is bad for Joe Average American to own then the LEA should not be allowed to have it either...

If another AWB happens in my lifetime. I'll be leading the charge to make sure the LEO community is in line with regs of that ban, and that they carry limited cappacity weapons as well

Sorry, but I gotta disagree here. The bad guys arent going to obey gun laws, as we know, so I want our LEAs to have the best of the best weapons.

I still believe it is a minority of LEOs that abuse or misundertand our rights as gun owners.