Indiana State Multigun Championship - CANCELLED

[04FXSTS]

I understand your frustration, only I hope that people channel that frustration into motivation join the club. In order to change the attitude of a club, they need people to join and make changes from the inside. Just avoiding membership at an otherwise good club is going to continue to allow them to follow the status quo.

There you go! At one time I felt the Illinois State Rifle Association, was nothing but a good old boy network, care nothing unless you shoot high power or trap with high dollar guns. This changed when people started joining and making it known our interest was to advance CCW in Illinois. To their credit this is now a priority and we are getting closer every year. To institute change in an orginations goals you must be a member to have influence. Jim.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Actually Kirk I think this is not true.

Actually it is, but you're right allow me to expand my remarks. I was there to sight in a rifle (my goofy Czech pseudo-scout rifle) and was kicked off the range.

I asked where I could shoot. I was told to come back on another day TO MY OWN RANGE WHERE I PAY DUES. And to use the words of Donnie Baker, they told me to get off my own range to my face. "This would be a good place for a gun club, huh?" was my witty response.

I packed my gear and drove to the clubhouse where I was advised that I "could use" the steel critter range. I got a zero on the rifle and then left.

I think Tony D and previous MDs have insured there is at least one bay for general use. If this is not the case Im sure the MD would like to know so it will not happen again.

I'm all for competitions and it is great that my club helps, but in no way should gun gamers grab all the shooting real estate. They must be taught to share. One bay is not enough for the dues paying members. Oh, and treating a long time dues paying club member who likes to run his mouth, especially to club officers, like he is some sort of leper is probably not a good idea for a gun game that is a guest of said leper's club. I mean, why poke the bear and what about my honey, not vinegar?

The only reason for a complete shutdown of the range is a LARGE match such as the past State or Regional IDPA or the previously scheduled Multigun event.

And this is just as unacceptable no matter what the shooting flavor.

 

[tnek]

Actually it is, but you're right allow me to expand my remarks. I was there to sight in a rifle (my goofy Czech pseudo-scout rifle) and was kicked off the range.

I asked where I could shoot. I was told to come back on another day TO MY OWN RANGE WHERE I PAY DUES. And to use the words of Donnie Baker, they told me to get off my own range to my face. "This would be a good place for a gun club, huh?" was my witty response.

I packed my gear and drove to the clubhouse where I was advised that I "could use" the steel critter range. I got a zero on the rifle and then left.



I'm all for competitions and it is great that my club helps, but in no way should gun gamers grab all the shooting real estate. They must be taught to share. One bay is not enough for the dues paying members. Oh, and treating a long time dues paying club member who likes to run his mouth, especially to club officers, like he is some sort of leper is probably not a good idea for a gun game that is a guest of said leper's club. I mean, why poke the bear and what about my honey, not vinegar?



And this is just as unacceptable no matter what the shooting flavor.

It is sharing but I'm sorry if 40 plus guys cant use one bay when you want to is that fair as well? And a a large percentage of those are also club members.
Did you still have access to a 100 yard range same as bay 8? It is just that bay 8 is the biggest bay and allows setting up one of the large field courses that is done at virtually every match.
Not trying to poke the bear but I have been on both sides of the coin and if its on the calender it should be something we are all aware of.

Whoever had the smart comment of coming back another day should have been set straight about the way the club leaves a bay open.

There is no perfect solution and those who have never shot in a sport usually are a bit less tolerant of it.

So, consider this a personal invitation to come to a multigun match and IF you are willing but do not have the gear your most welcome to share mine which people do all the time for those wanting to try it without committing the money for the gear.

You can shoot a purple Saiga 12 with hi cap mags, and this one runs, and I will kick in the ammo for it. I can also share my JP rifle with Meopta and mags so all you need is the handgun of your choice plus a few mags for it. I owe you for doing me a good turn.

I have NEVER heard of someone who shot a multigun match walk away and say "well that sucked". Most of them are pumped up to do it again and realize that shooting paper from a bench gets old after a while.

You just may realize how addictive it is.

Plus its ubber good practice for Zombies,, AND you never can tell when Mila may need a partner for the next movie thats good to go

 

[slow1911s]

Hopefully the constructive criticism that Wildcat receives from effectively cancelling the Multigun State Match will put them back on a path towards encouraging new programs at their facility.

You must not have reviewed the their calendar before making this comment. On average 6-7 weekend days per month from March to October are occupied by matches. The club hosts eleven disciplines, including USPSA, IDPA, steel, and multigun.

What new programs do you have in mind?

 

[singlesix]

It has always seemed to me that Wildcat "walks to their own beat"... which is putting it way too lightly, and frankly way too politely.

I shot the last Steel match at Wildcat, and I was made to feel more than welcomed. Yes this is just a snapshot in time, but still a very welcoming group.

 

[chizzle]

What new programs do you have in mind?

1) Appleseed
2) Multigun State Match

 

[Mog]

1) Appleseed
2) Multigun State Match

 

[Mog]

I was there to sight in a rifle (my goofy Czech pseudo-scout rifle) and was kicked off the range.

I packed my gear and drove to the clubhouse where I was advised that I "could use" the steel critter range. I got a zero on the rifle and then left.

QUOTE]

Seems like a quick check of the club calendar would have mitigated this entire exchange. Was the event on the calendar? Were the ranges they "took over" in fact reservered for them that day? If so, your bad. If NOT, and they were "expanding their territory", so to speak-- their bad. THIS is what the club calendar is for-- and it it published well in advance.

I sounds like there were a lot of smart ass remarks exchanged that did absolutely nothing to address the actual problem incurred. For that, Shame on ALL of you involved!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Seems like a quick check of the club calendar would have mitigated this entire exchange. Was the event on the calendar?

I do not recall, but even if it was on the calendar does that mean gun gamers get to take all ranges? All pistol ranges? All rifle ranges? As they see fit and to kick members off ranges where they were not setting up? (I was there first and they were all kibbutzing very far away until they marched up and kicked me off).

They wanted to close Wildcat, all ranges, for four solid days!!!

If an event is on a calendar for a club does one have to draw a big red X through that day? Where do I go to get a pro rata refund of those match days of my dues? Or, should the gun gamers pay me for interfering with my rights?

I'm only calling for a restoration of balance, not eliminating the matches. Let's put them back in the box so the usufruct enjoyment of all members is respected.

I sounds like there were a lot of smart ass remarks exchanged that did absolutely nothing to address the actual problem incurred.

Pffft, you obviously are not familiar with male conflict resolution.

Smart alecs? Nah, we're having fun. Don't tell the women, they think we are suffering and that's why we are allowed to leave the house.

So, consider this a personal invitation to come to a multigun match

Well, a personal invation from a fellow INGOer. Can't turn that down and be a jerk. Next one I see is in September.

 

[Mog]

ALL ranges? The "critter range" was apparently open. You got your desired zero and went home. That doesn't sound like "drawing a big red X through the whole day". And you didn't answer my question-- what ranges did they have reserved on the published calendar? Since you don't recall, and obviously didn't check the calendar, I'd say your bad.

As far as "male conflict resolution", y'all please conduct your p**sing matches OUTSIDE the tent. Thank you.

Hope to see you at the next multigun match! (I'm not currently a multigun shooter-- looking to start!)

I do not recall, but even if it was on the calendar does that mean gun gamers get to take all ranges? All pistol ranges? All rifle ranges? As they see fit and to kick members off ranges where they were not setting up? (I was there first and they were all kibbutzing very far away until they marched up and kicked me off).

They wanted to close Wildcat, all ranges, for four solid days!!!

If an event is on a calendar for a club does one have to draw a big red X through that day? Where do I go to get a pro rata refund of those match days of my dues? Or, should the gun gamers pay me for interfering with my rights?

I'm only calling for a restoration of balance, not eliminating the matches. Let's put them back in the box so the usufruct enjoyment of all members is respected.



Pffft, you obviously are not familiar with male conflict resolution.

Smart alecs? Nah, we're having fun. Don't tell the women, they think we are suffering and that's why we are allowed to leave the house.



Well, a personal invation from a fellow INGOer. Can't turn that down and be a jerk. Next one I see is in September.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

ALL ranges? The "critter range" was apparently open. You got your desired zero and went home. That doesn't sound like "drawing a big red X through the whole day".

Again, if I was not clear I apologize. However, if you look at the Wildcat calendar, the multigun people wanted to shut the entire club down (all ranges) for four entire days!

Many matches claim all of Wildcat for the entire day. This is unfair to the other members.

Why cannot we have some ranges open to dues paying members? Why cannot gun gamers hold their games on a week day and avoid the weekend?

Since you don't recall, and obviously didn't check the calendar, I'd say your bad.

I said I do not recall because I do not recall. This event happened in the summer of 2010. I demand that you tell me what you had for dinner each and every night of the summer of 2010, go.

I moved when a visiting guest gun gamer ordered me, a dues paying member of the range he was privileged to be shooting on, to leave HIS range. I moved, but I get to complain about the conduct of the visiting gun gamers who think that a club where everyone puts in the hat is their own private Idaho.

It's not right, but it is something that we at Wildcat can work out.

 

[patton487]

Wow, how about a little cheese with that "whine" of yours Kirk.
"I'm a dues paying member! I'm a dues paying member!"

Ha! Reminds me of Gomer Pyle yelling at Barney "Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!"

Just how much dues do you pay? 100 bucks a year? Well whooopty do!! Good luck King of the Range!

 

[tnek]

I do not recall, but even if it was on the calendar does that mean gun gamers get to take all ranges? All pistol ranges? All rifle ranges? As they see fit and to kick members off ranges where they were not setting up? (I was there first and they were all kibbutzing very far away until they marched up and kicked me off).

They wanted to close Wildcat, all ranges, for four solid days!!!

If an event is on a calendar for a club does one have to draw a big red X through that day? Where do I go to get a pro rata refund of those match days of my dues? Or, should the gun gamers pay me for interfering with my rights?

I'm only calling for a restoration of balance, not eliminating the matches. Let's put them back in the box so the usufruct enjoyment of all members is respected.

I have to go to bed now and travel to Ky tomorrow for the KY state match. They shut down the whole club for a few days for a match. They have probably 100 or more shooters from all over the US and paying $125 plus all of the travel expenses. They have a poopload of sponsors who will provide a really nice prize table for random draw including guns.
Plus you get to meet great folks and see some of the top shooters.

Seriously,, try this or USPSA a few times and maybe the bug will bite. There is a multigun in Atlanta In next Sunday with short range stuff which is a tad easier to break in without having a rifle that is easy to hit 8" plates at 300.

http://www.eteamz.com/atlantaconservationclub/





Pffft, you obviously are not familiar with male conflict resolution.

Smart alecs? Nah, we're having fun. Don't tell the women, they think we are suffering and that's why we are allowed to leave the house.



Well, a personal invation from a fellow INGOer. Can't turn that down and be a jerk. Next one I see is in September.

Since you seem to be evading the questions.


On the day in question did you not get to use a 100 yard range? (yes)

On the day in question was it on the calender that bay 8 was reserved for a match? (yes it was and I still have the calender)

On the day in question was there ANYONE at all, a single other soul, on either the range that was reserved or the range you ended up using? (no there was not because I remember)

On the day in question was it just a matter of a temper tantrum?

Or maybe just a simple issue of not being able to extend some common courtesy to fellow shooters who plan a schedule months and months in advance, and then one member wakes up, decides that this particular day he wants to monopolize a range and the heck with anyone else.

Considering the Multigun matches are infrequent and popular with members and those who come to shoot its a very minor inconvenience. The USPSA and Cowboys also pretty much take the range on those events.

 

[tnek]

Why cannot gun gamers hold their games on a week day and avoid the weekend?



***,I get to complain about the conduct of the visiting gun gamers who think that a club where everyone puts in the hat is their own private Idaho.

it is something that we at Wildcat can work out.

OK Kirk, explain to me how 40ish guys for a club match or up to 100 for a regional or state match can do this on a week day? Sketch it out for us.

Most of us work 9-5 type jobs. While I dont presume to know your schedule you know as well as anyone that you have much more freedom to go to the range during the week or evenings. I make time during the week and can do a few hours easy if I want. Heck Greg Garrison has time for a few hours to do a radio show.

Weekends are and have traditionaly been for get togethers like this. Weak argument.

Edit to add,, those visiting folks may have been wrong IF they were rude and didnt realize that there was a bay open for you. Those are some of the same folks who also host matches at their clubs, they show up early after driving for several hours, help us finishing setting up. I would ask you,, how many work hours do you put in at the club? We have some members who have the attitude that if they write a check they need do no more. The range faires come in the night and maintain the place.

 

[BROBERTS]

At are range the membership dues pays the utility bills and insurance thats about it. The match's help out with the other expenses so we don't have to raise the dues.

We close most of are range down for are USPSA match. We are closing it down for a week for the Indiana State match. We should make in a week as mush as we get in dues for the year.

Seems like it cost more to mow the yard every week !!! But the dues stay the same. There still the same as when I joined 12 years ago.

Brent Roberts

Warsaw Rifle & Pistol Club
2011 Indiana USPSA State & Section Championship

 

[slow1911s]

Many matches claim all of Wildcat for the entire day. This is unfair to the other members.

Why cannot we have some ranges open to dues paying members? Why cannot gun gamers hold their games on a week day and avoid the weekend?

The issue of the state multigun match taking up the range was addressed during the vote by the membership. The votes in favor were overwhelming.
M

 

[Kirk Freeman]

On the day in question did you not get to use a 100 yard range? (yes)

On the day in question was it on the calender that bay 8 was reserved for a match? (yes it was and I still have the calender)

On the day in question was there ANYONE at all, a single other soul, on either the range that was reserved or the range you ended up using? (no there was not because I remember)

On the day in question was it just a matter of a temper tantrum?

I did get to use the 100 yard range.

I do not recall if 8 was reserved, but if you say it was then you are correct.

There were other people at 8 and the steel critter range but they did not bother me.

No temper tantum. Even the guy that told me to leave was nice enough. Like I said, he wasn't rude, just excited to do his match that day.

I admit that I was the snarky one--"this would be a good place for a gun club."

OK Kirk, explain to me how 40ish guys for a club match or up to 100 for a regional or state match can do this on a week day? Sketch it out for us.

Sure thing. Since the multigun match reserved the entire range on weekdays then shoot the match during the week, rather than primetime of the weekends.

This gives the multigun people run of the ranges and allows members to shoot on the weekend. To quote my cousin, Jack Freeman, "it's win squared!"

The issue of the state multigun match taking up the range was addressed during the vote by the membership. The votes in favor were overwhelming.

That settles that.

Next time I believe we as club members need to be concerned about members who are not shooting the match, then we will sing kumbayah.

 

[ol' poke]

I've been a member of WVRPC for over 10 years. It's an hour drive from my home to the club. I've shot High power, trap/skeet, steel plates, silhouette, and now Cowboy Action . I have two boys in their Junior Club. We are a busy club and emphasize safety at every shoot! As an active member, I proudly refer to it as "my" club.

From March through November there are few, if any, weekends where there is not some match going on usually taking up several bays. I can't say all of them are occupied, but it is on the calendar. I will also say that I did not attend any of the club meetings discussed on this thread.

Matches for outside groups must be approved by the membership during a monthly meeting. Apparently Multigun was approved and Appleseed was not ( sorry Appleseed, I'd really like to see us put that one on!). Unfortunately, a safety concern (shooting into the side berms) was later brought to the attention of the club and Multigun was asked to accommodate this concern. Multigun decided to cancel.

I realize that asking them to change their match design at such a late date was probably an insurmountable request. However, with today's society leaning towards litigation at every opportunity, what would be the result of an incident resulting from shooting into the side berms? My club's insurance might cover, but what else? Possible closure of my club? Due to actions not in accordance with my clubs requirements? No thanks.

I do empathize for Multigun, but we are a private club, with our rules. Safety First. Always.



ol' poke

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Just how much dues do you pay? 100 bucks a year? Well whooopty do!! Good luck King of the Range!

Yes, the lack of respect of due paying members of the host club can create issues for an organization that wishes to run its matches.

Some may take offense to being disrespected and wish not to be hospitable to those organizations which wish to use the range of the dues paying member. Water off my back, just call me a duck.

 

[madeuce50]

The Wildcat is NOT a friendly range unless you are rich,a lawyer, doctor or trapshooter. They will change rules at a whim and force the rest to go along. You have about a dozen that need to go away and not come back. They will NEVER get any NRA money because of their one sided, money making ways. They killed 50 cal. shooting because of the berms. Even though they were proved wrong. Then they said they were too loud and the neighbors complained. The neighbors stated that they could not tell the difference in noise. They then said fragmented projectiles,so a box and backstop were used to prove that wrong. Finally saying they were scared of rounds getting outside the range( the range sets in a valley with 80/100ft. tall impact zones. Oh and by the way those trapshooters complain that they can't concentrate with other fire going on. They want there personal range to themselves but they want the others to pay dues and maintain the range but don't interfere. Voting will never help because you can't get enough people to win the vote. And as for the club President he goes along. Unless you can out shoot them (trap) are rich, a lawyer(for their legal benefit) you are treated like muddy boots. They have a land purchase fund going on for years but no purchase yet.