Indiana law bans asking workers about their guns

[The Bubba Effect]

AHUM, your vehicle is private property even when it is parked on anothers private property. So explain how you loose your property rights when parked there?

The fact employers are now not legally allowed to ask about firearms is more of an invasion of privacy restriction than a denial of the 1A.

No conflict, IMO, as that question is a private matter.

AHUM, AHUM,

"Real Property" rights trump "Personal Property" rights

My house ( my real property) is my castle. My car (my personal property) parked on your front yard (your real property) is not my castle. It's a car parked in the yard of your castle.

Wal-Mart can sell goods on their real property (the land they own/lease and things attached to the land). They can prohibit you from selling things out of your car on land they lease or own (their real property), even though you are selling them from your car (your personal property).

 

[warangelcometh]

Say what you want about Mitch - but he has done some very good things for us Hoosiers

 

[Roadie]

AHUM, AHUM,

"Real Property" rights trump "Personal Property" rights

My house ( my real property) is my castle. My car (my personal property) parked on your front yard (your real property) is not my castle. It's a car parked in the yard of your castle.

Wal-Mart can sell goods on their real property (the land they own/lease and things attached to the land). They can prohibit you from selling things out of your car on land they lease or own (their real property), even though you are selling them from your car (your personal property).

Wal Mart opens its property to employees by hiring them, giving them a vested interest in the company by being employed there. Those employees do not lose their Rights when they walk onto Wal Mart property.

By your logic, you should be able to search your employees cars for cigarettes if smoking is banned on property, or prescription drugs, or porn, etc etc.

Would you really want to open that can of worms? Would you really want your car searched and anything found held against you because it is on your employers property?

Let's go a bit farther..
What if they found pro gun literature and used it against you?
What if they found pro life literature, and the owner was pro choice, and used it against you?

Slippery slope my friend..

Not to mention, by banning guns in cars they are not affecting you just while on their property, they are affecting you TO and FROM work as well.

Bottom line? Personal rights trump property rights, every time.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Wal Mart opens its property to employees by hiring them, giving them a vested interest in the company by being employed there. Those employees do not lose their Rights when they walk onto Wal Mart property.

By your logic, you should be able to search your employees cars for cigarettes if smoking is banned on property, or prescription drugs, or porn, etc etc.

Would you really want to open that can of worms? Would you really want your car searched and anything found held against you because it is on your employers property?

Let's go a bit farther..
What if they found pro gun literature and used it against you?
What if they found pro life literature, and the owner was pro choice, and used it against you?

Slippery slope my friend..

Not to mention, by banning guns in cars they are not affecting you just while on their property, they are affecting you TO and FROM work as well.

Bottom line? Personal rights trump property rights, every time.

Do you own real property?

 

[Roadie]

Do you own real property?

Is whether or not one owns Property at this time, a prerequisite on giving their opinion on this matter?

You were discussing WalMart, do you own a WalMart?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Own a Wal-Mart, lol
I do not own a wal-mart. If I did, I would also own a GE mini gun and it would be all over INGO.

Back to my question, do you own any real property? I am trying to gain insight into where you're coming from.

To give you an idea of where I am coming from, I do own real property. Some of it is commercial and I do place restrictions upon what can be done on the property. I prohibit some things from being brought onto the property and I specify the uses which I allow and which uses I prohibit. I also reserve the right to inspect the property for prohibited materials/uses and have specified my recourse should I find prohibited materials/uses.

I am not forcing my will upon the parties using my real property, they entered into a contract of their own free will agreeing to abide by the terms of the contract.

I view employment contracts in the same light. If the employment contract prohibits pro-life literature on the property and allows for the inspection of vehicles to verify compliance, then I stand that the employer has the right to search and terminate employment if they find it.

Also, I disagree that employment gives the employee "vested interest" in the "real property" or the company. As I understand it, "Vested Interest" is an interest that cannot be taken away by a third party. I do not think that is applicable in most employment situations, excepting becoming "vested" in retirement funds and the like.

Please do not get me wrong, I personally think we should not do business with employers which disarm their employees. I do not however, think that the law should be used as some type of crude club to serve my views.

In the interest of disclosure, I am not a lawyer.

 

[Roadie]

Own a Wal-Mart, lol
I do not own a wal-mart. If I did, I would also own a GE mini gun and it would be all over INGO.

Back to my question, do you own any real property? I am trying to gain insight into where you're coming from.

To give you an idea of where I am coming from, I do own real property. Some of it is commercial and I do place restrictions upon what can be done on the property. I prohibit some things from being brought onto the property and I specify the uses which I allow and which uses I prohibit. I also reserve the right to inspect the property for prohibited materials/uses and have specified my recourse should I find prohibited materials/uses.

I am not forcing my will upon the parties using my real property, they entered into a contract of their own free will agreeing to abide by the terms of the contract.

I view employment contracts in the same light. If the employment contract prohibits pro-life literature on the property and allows for the inspection of vehicles to verify compliance, then I stand that the employer has the right to search and terminate employment if they find it.

Also, I disagree that employment gives the employee "vested interest" in the "real property" or the company. As I understand it, "Vested Interest" is an interest that cannot be taken away by a third party. I do not think that is applicable in most employment situations, excepting becoming "vested" in retirement funds and the like.

Please do not get me wrong, I personally think we should not do business with employers which disarm their employees. I do not however, think that the law should be used as some type of crude club to serve my views.

In the interest of disclosure, I am not a lawyer.

You are kind of ignoring the main points of my previous post..

By your logic, you should be able to search your employees cars for cigarettes if smoking is banned on property, or prescription drugs, or porn, etc etc.

Would you really want to open that can of worms? Would you really want your car searched and anything found held against you because it is on your employers property?

Let's go a bit farther..
What if they found pro gun literature and used it against you?
What if they found pro life literature, and the owner was pro choice, and used it against you?

Slippery slope my friend..

Not to mention, by banning guns in cars they are not affecting you just while on their property, they are affecting you TO and FROM work as well.

Where am I coming from? I am a citizen, and a gun owner, who has a right to protect myself to and from work. My car is my private property, whether it is in a parking lot or not.

I also believe the Rights of the individual, outweighs property rights. Reading our Founder's documents, I get the impression they agree with me...

 

[The Bubba Effect]

You are kind of ignoring the main points of my previous post..



Where am I coming from? I am a citizen, and a gun owner, who has a right to protect myself to and from work. My car is my private property, whether it is in a parking lot or not.

I also believe the Rights of the individual, outweighs property rights. Reading our Founder's documents, I get the impression they agree with me...

Please believe me that I am not purposely ignoring the main points of your previous post. I am evidently failing to understand your points and that failure is likely my fault due to my feeble mind and meager abilities.

 

[IndianaGTI]

Back to my question, do you own any real property? I am trying to gain insight into where you're coming from.

I am not forcing my will upon the parties using my real property, they entered into a contract of their own free will agreeing to abide by the terms of the contract.

I view employment contracts in the same light. If the employment contract prohibits pro-life literature on the property and allows for the inspection of vehicles to verify compliance, then I stand that the employer has the right to search and terminate employment if they find it.

Also, I disagree that employment gives the employee "vested interest" in the "real property" or the company. As I understand it, "Vested Interest" is an interest that cannot be taken away by a third party. I do not think that is applicable in most employment situations, excepting becoming "vested" in retirement funds and the like.

Please do not get me wrong, I personally think we should not do business with employers which disarm their employees. I do not however, think that the law should be used as some type of crude club to serve my views.

In the interest of disclosure, I am not a lawyer.

I gotta go with TBE on this one. I believe in a free America. People can contract to do whatever they choose. If a person wants to contract with a person to do certain things during certain hours, he has that right.

Some people don't understand terms like "vested interest". What interest in the property is vested by employment? A vested interest is typically an ownership interest. What percentage ownership do the employees have? How much is the interest worth? If it is indeed vested, then it is transferrable for value. How much would you give an employee for their vested interest.

 

[Roadie]

Please believe me that I am not purposely ignoring the main points of your previous post. I am evidently failing to understand your points and that failure is likely my fault due to my feeble mind and meager abilities.

Ah, sarcasm, I speak it fluently..

I will just bring up one point then..

You don't understand that banning guns in cars at work, also disarms employees to and from work as well, thus taking away their 2nd Amendment rights?

 

[Roadie]

I gotta go with TBE on this one. I believe in a free America. People can contract to do whatever they choose. If a person wants to contract with a person to do certain things during certain hours, he has that right.

Some people don't understand terms like "vested interest". What interest in the property is vested by employment? A vested interest is typically an ownership interest. What percentage ownership do the employees have? How much is the interest worth? If it is indeed vested, then it is transferrable for value. How much would you give an employee for their vested interest.

So, an employee's interest in their employer does not fit this definition of "Vested Interest"?

A financial or personal stake one entity has in an action, separate entity or commitment, with the expectation of realized benefits in the present or the future.

..or, according to Websters:

• a special interest in an existing system, arrangement, or institution for particular personal reasons.
• vested interests, the persons, groups, etc., who benefit the most from existing business or financial systems.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Ah, sarcasm, I speak it fluently..

I will just bring up one point then..

You don't understand that banning guns in cars at work, also disarms employees to and from work as well, thus taking away their 2nd Amendment rights?

Sarcasm, who, me?


I do not understand that banning guns in cars at work also disarms employees to and from work as well, thus taking away their 2nd amendment rights.

I contend that the 2nd amendment specifies that the Government cannot disarm me. It does not specify that my employer make provisions so that I can be armed when I step off their property. There is nothing that forces me to seek employment with a company that has values contrary to my own.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

So, an employee's interest in their employer does not fit this definition of "Vested Interest"?

..or, according to Websters:

I see where your confusion lies.

Sometimes words have more than one meaning.

Go back to your sources and check for the definitions regarding real estate and employee pensions. These usages of the term refer to rights of ownership.

The definitions you quoted refer to usages of the term which do not establish rights, similar to how a sports fan can claim that they have a "vested interest" in their favorite sports team because they have emotional capital tied up in the teams success.


Words are tricky like that sometimes.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Ah, sarcasm, I speak it fluently..

I will just bring up one point then..

You don't understand that banning guns in cars at work, also disarms employees to and from work as well, thus taking away their 2nd Amendment rights?

Roadie... When you go to your employer's property, are you there by his granting you the privilege of doing so or are you there because you have a right to be there?

I contend that you do not have a right to be there. You are allowed to do so to complete work for the employer. Personally, I'd be OK with it if the law did not prevent any private employer from banning guns (or anything else), so long as no law compelled my presence at or patronizing of that business and so long as no government entity or property funded or supported by tax monies (with the possible exception of penal facilities) was permitted to do so.

Do you have a right to protect yourself? Of course. Do you have a right to be on the employer's property? No. That said, though, I am of the opinion that if an employer were to forbid you to defend yourself, said employer would then automatically take on the legal responsibility for any harm that befell you because you were unable to defend yourself in compliance with his policies.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Roadie]

I see where your confusion lies.

Sometimes words have more than one meaning.

Go back to your sources and check for the definitions regarding real estate and employee pensions. These usages of the term refer to rights of ownership.

The definitions you quoted refer to usages of the term which do not establish rights, similar to how a sports fan can claim that they have a "vested interest" in their favorite sports team because they have emotional capital tied up in the teams success.


Words are tricky like that sometimes.

I understand words have more than one meaning, do YOU understand that just because YOU read it as one meaning, it doesnt necessarily mean that I used it as that meaning?

You are predicating this whole "vested interest" discussion on the assumption that YOUR meaning is the only one to be used in the discussion. I find that to be a little condescending, and just a tad bit arrogant.
--

My wife has surgery in the morning, so I may not be picking up this convo again for awhile, so I will leave it to the rest of you to continue the debate.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...My wife has surgery in the morning, so I may not be picking up this convo again for awhile, so I will leave it to the rest of you to continue the debate.

Whenever you see this, Roadie, my best wishes for her for a speedy recovery.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Lucas156]

If your employer asked you if you had a firearm, and you knew it would get you fired if you answered yes, wouldn't you just lie?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Whenever you see this, Roadie, my best wishes for her for a speedy recovery.

Blessings,
Bill

+1 speedy recovery for Roadie's wife

 

[The Bubba Effect]

You got me Roadie, I am kinda arrogant and condescending on occasion. No harm intended. In all seriousness though, I wish your wife a speedy and full recovery.

 

[IndianaGTI]

Just for the record, you have no vested interest in a company by your employment there. As stated, a vested interest is an interest that has already vested in an individual. An employee's interest solely by employment is not a vested interest in the company.