Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

[roadrunner681]

I would think that and .45/70 as traditional cartridges should be allowable for deer hunting in Indiana in lever-action or single-shot rifles. But then the whole .44 magnum crowd would likely become a thing of the past.

i doubt it, i would still use my 44 mag in some areas i hunt, thick brush and very close ranges.

 

[Hohn]

If it's legal to use a rifle, then legalize a rifle. Regulating calibers is moronic, regardless how well-intentioned.

From a height of 1.5m (about 4 and a half feet-- the approximate height of the average shooter's shoulder), the bullet will freefall for .55 seconds.

At 3000FPS (ignoring the considerable loss of velocity) the bullet will travel about 550 yards before hitting the ground if fired perfectly level.

How often is someone shooting UP at a deer that is smaller than most people? Never is a pretty good estimate. Even if you ARE shooting uphill at a deer, you'd still be on a trajectory to hit the dirt pretty soon unless that deer happened to be near the crest of a ridgeline and you were down in the valley.

If a negligent hunter kills someone or injures them, there are laws on the books and they can and should be prosecuted for their negligence.

As far as I'm concerned, anything .50BMG and smaller should be legal for rifle hunting.

 

[tenring]

The original proposal for the introduction of center fire rifles, going on 25 years ago, was for straight walled cases only, which would have allowed the 45-70. A group of us numbering only about a half dozen spent a lot of time and gas money to get this on the books, but it died a quiet death. Then Kyle Hupfer was appointed the Head of DNR, and he came across material in the files pertaining to this. He brought it to the attention of then governor Mitch Daniels. Mitch looked it over and told Kyle to put it back on the table. At the last rules meeting I attended one day at Attebury [cost me a half days pay] I got up and gave my two cents worth, as well a 3 or 4 others, and the NRC voted in favor of it. After the meeting was over, Glen Salmon, who was the Chief of the F&W thanked me for my presentation, and was glad that it was only for short to medium rounds. Later at Fort Ben it was on the books so to speak.

When the rule was finally published, the straight walled provision [original] was not found, and case length was added, and so the bickering started shortly there after. A "Johnny Come Lately" most likely had to get his two cents worth in, behind closed doors. I tried for a long time to find out just who took that out, but it was a waste of time on my part, as I got so many "have no idea" answers, I gave up and attributed it to nothing more than politics.

And as for the predation versus regular season, what's the ratio of hunters in those two areas? Darn few, as opposed to tens of thousands. If one wishes to use a 45-70, get a TC and hunt away. Been at this game for a long time, getting tired of it, and I just don't care anymore. Keeping my .44 Mag regardless, and let the younger crowd and the Hornagraphy lovers do what they may.

 

[Hookeye]

Look at how many folks are too stupid to understand the rules as written. Those of that mental prowess would no doubt screw it up by throwing FMJ's at yonder Bambi from their beloved cheap milsurp. If not them, then some hayseed kid peeling rounds at a deer where they haven't permission, from the road probably. We have some of that now, some indeed using non legal rifles.

I think if regular rifle cartridges were allowed the idiots would show up in higher number.

In today's immediate gratification culture, one where the average person is still a moron, sure.................lets make it more inviting to have them join the orange army. As if deer season wasn't dangerous enough already.

 

[avboiler11]

As if deer season wasn't dangerous enough already.

Somewhere between Fallujah and Detroit, no doubt.

 

[roadrunner681]

Somewhere between Fallujah and Detroit, no doubt.

ive been in flint and detroit, deer season aint got nothing compared to that.

 

[Hookeye]

Been to Detroit twice, many years ago. No bullets whizzed past.
Deer season , on private ground no less, had bullets zinging and clacking around/by me several times.

 

[Hohn]

Look at how many folks are too stupid to understand the rules as written.

Wouldn't this be an argument for making the rules simpler, not more complex? Eliminating the cartridge regs would eliminate this entirely.

Those of that mental prowess would no doubt screw it up by throwing FMJ's at yonder Bambi from their beloved cheap milsurp. If not them, then some hayseed kid peeling rounds at a deer where they haven't permission, from the road probably. We have some of that now, some indeed using non legal rifles.

I think if regular rifle cartridges were allowed the idiots would show up in higher number.

In today's immediate gratification culture, one where the average person is still a moron, sure.................lets make it more inviting to have them join the orange army. As if deer season wasn't dangerous enough already.

How do current regulations prevent this? I don't see anywhere that FMJ ammo for deer is prohibited in IC.

Kids not following the law now will be preventing by passing new law? Do you see the absurdity of this, or are you a gun control advocate?



The way to increase safety is with training and experience. Mandatory hunter's safety classes might make a lot of sense. Beyond that, there's not much a person can do-- you can't outlaw stupid. The problem with trying to make something idiot-proof is that 1)it infringes the liberty of most folks and 2) there's ALWAYS a bigger idiot than can be used to justify even more draconian inringement upon the rights of the common man.

The argument for caliber regs is simply baseless-- both as a matter of liberty and as a matter of logic.

 

[RLC]

Thanks for revisiting this topic. Really enjoyed this thread . Being fairly new to Indiana and after reading the regs, I realized I have 4 rifles that can't be used to hunt deer. Great excuse to shop for a new gun though!

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW FMJ is prohibited under the deer handgun rules.

I've been doing the hunting/shooting crap for a good many years (decades). Even worked in a shop for a few. Ruined my view of the average person.

Open it up to any rifle and I think even more clueless folks will participate. Probably a "grab the Mosin and go" type of thing. Hell we have enough folks who don't zero their guns or think a .44 mag can shoot 300 yards and drop 'em in their tracks. Mismatched arrows in quivers, bows being sold the night before the opener, guys going hunting next morning. Year after year the same guys and plenty of new ones.............deer season brings out the retards...............and not all of them are from the sticks. I've seen many a clueless and or cheapskate with various levels of college degree.

I've had my fill of them already.

 

[RLC]

Hookeye - you sound like a guy that could actually be quite an asset to those less experienced folks. My attitude has always been to help them be better shooters and sportsmen. Education has never been a barometer for commons sense. I've found some of those "retards" (your word not mine) can actually turn out to be pretty good folks with the right influence. You can't know what you don't know..... I'm an old fart and pretty cynical but when it comes to hunting and shooting I'm all about helping the the younger or inexperienced folks. The realty is most of us are just "average".... Cheers!

 

[Hookeye]

Guns/hunting, vehicles and women............most guys from 20-40 know everything there is to know.

Somebody asks me a question, I'll offer my input. Been called a liar and or incorrect by folks who were way in the wrong. Never an apology either.

Screw the general populace.

I'll mentor a decent guy, if he asks. Got one good kid into trad archery, don't mind helping him (when he asks for it).

BTW, I consider myself average. There's just a whole bunch of folks below average and I've had my fill of them.

 

[HOLY LAND]

I believe in people and that they want to do what is right. They might not know exactly what is and isnt right yet. But if we make the new laws we want clear and easy to understand then their should be no miss understandings. That we are able to use any common rifle round from .223 up but with only Soft Point, Hollow Point, or Copper Solid Bullets. It would need to be clear for people to understand I think alot of people just want to experience hunting for the first time and might not have anyone to go with them. Maybe we should have some type of mentoring program available. But all in all I do believe in people and I would not want to speak down on anyone because its not my place to judge people their intent or intelligence. Just make the rules clear and easy to read and lets not forget that we need to stand together because if we give up how can we expect any change?

Please do sign the petition if you agree with it and even add a comment with your signature if you want your voice to standout more tell exactly what you want to say. I do need your help everyone please share with your friends and ask them to sign as well. I know that it seems like nothing ever gets done or changes so why bother? If our voices come together from every gun lover in Indiana how can the DNR refuse our request? There is 6,537 Million people who live in Indiana we can have a big voice if we stand together. Please support my Petition and I wanted to THANK EVERYONE who is helping support my goal to make rifle hunting legal.

 

[Bigbuck5]

Holy Land thanks for trying to get this started. I've been hunting with rifles all my life. We recently moved to Indiana and have a safe full of guns I can no longer hunt with. I agree with those who have posted in this thread expressing common sense, not pontificating about helmets and flack jackets for deer. For example, Ohio is shotgun only hunting....Kentucky is a rifle state. Over the 25 years I lived in Kentucky there were far more fatalities in Ohio. I honestly can't remember any in Kentucky, but that's probably not accurate. The primary safety device is between our ears. I do have some constructive criticism though.......the decimal points are in the wrong place on your cartridge deminsion comparisons. Check it out and I think you will see what I'm talking about.

 

[HOLY LAND]

Bigbuck5 Thank you for taking the time to write your letter to me I really enjoyed it. Its sad that your no longer able to enjoy the pleasures of using your rifle to hunt with when you moved here. I would like to know a rough guess of how far on average you would shoot at what ever you were hunting. Just curious because of other comments we have had on this thread. I do agree with what you said the most important part of using any hunter is the brain and even a good bit of common sense doesnt hurt. If people are taught how to safely and accuratly use their rifles I am sure a 100% people would be much safer. Also I had another question where in Kentucky is the best hunting areas? Because I will be going next year until we are able to get 5,000 signatures on the petition so I can send it to the DNR and Governor.

Please email the link of the petition to your Family and Friends I do want these petition to make it so I ask for you to please help me everyone. Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

 

[Bigbuck5]

Holy Land, I was in northern Ky. In southern Campbell county. Anywhere in northern Ky is good, but you would have to have a private connection. Check here for some quota hunt information: Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources - Quota Hunts
my typical shooting distance during deer season was 50 - 75 yards. I have had several shots over 100 yards, and one over 200 but they are not the norm. You should check out Kentuckys elk hunting too.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We recently moved to Indiana and have a safe full of guns I can no longer hunt with.0

Perhaps you are under a misunderstanding, but centerfire rifle prohibition only applies to deer with non-predation permit.

[there were far more fatalities in Ohio./QUOTE]

Correct.

1. Falls do the killing in hunting accidents.

2. The Pennsylvania study showed that shotguns are more dangerous than centerfire rifles.

 

[Bigbuck5]

Kirk, thanks for the info, that's kind of the point though. Why are rifles of any caliber legal the rest of the year and not not during deer season? Yes, I know why they do it, but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense these days. The topography is certainly different in Ky, but it's not so different in southern In or southern Oh. Maybe a start would be To create rifle zones similar to Mi. I guess another issue is the caliber I want to hunt with is significantly less powerful and flat shooting as some of the legal Indiana calibers. I guess the sensible way to restrict cartridges would be by power/range, but it really is pretty trivial when you think about it. Most rifle calibers in the right hands will travel great distances.....even those already legal in Indiana. For example, can a 358 Hoosier be shot accurately at 400 yards? Probably. It's really no difference compared to 30-06 in practical applications.

 

[Roscoe38]

You could move to neighboring states that only allow shotguns.......just a thought

 

[hrearden]

FWIW FMJ is prohibited under the deer handgun rules.

I've been doing the hunting/shooting crap for a good many years (decades). Even worked in a shop for a few. Ruined my view of the average person.

Open it up to any rifle and I think even more clueless folks will participate. Probably a "grab the Mosin and go" type of thing. Hell we have enough folks who don't zero their guns or think a .44 mag can shoot 300 yards and drop 'em in their tracks. Mismatched arrows in quivers, bows being sold the night before the opener, guys going hunting next morning. Year after year the same guys and plenty of new ones.............deer season brings out the retards...............and not all of them are from the sticks. I've seen many a clueless and or cheapskate with various levels of college degree.

I've had my fill of them already.

Where Im from in MI, this is every bit the case. Most of the dumbasses you deal with are city people on rented hunted land or guys from town doing a lot of the things you just described.