Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

[netsecurity]

They need to at least extend it to make 30-30 legal, and give us the option for 7.62x39 too, since the ballistics are about the same. And why not a 75+ grain .223 HP for deer? Hunting with a modern sporting rifle would be amazing, especially with a supressor.

.30-06 travels really far, probably further than necessary in most cases, since there aren't big mountains here. That might be a bridge too far.

 

[avboiler11]

.30-06 travels really far, probably further than necessary in most cases, since there aren't big mountains here. That might be a bridge too far.

You might be surprised how far a 75/77gr .224 bullet from a 223 travels compared to a 180gr 30cal from a 30-06.

Since DNR seems so institutionalized against centerfire rifles for deer, here are some good intermediate steps:

A good intermediate step to prove centerfires won't result in decimation of the deer herd or rivers of hunter/civilian blood from reckless hunters would be to legalize certain smaller-capacity 30 caliber cartridges by name (30-30, 300 AAC BLK, 300 Whisper, 7.62x39, etc.). Spend a few years looking at data, then open it up further.

 

[mayor al]

I use a 44 magnum here in Hoosier land...but I would switch to my Ruger Mini 30 or CZ 527 both use 7.62x39mm and would work just fine on our Whitetails.

 

[HOLY LAND]

Thank you Gentlemen. With your requests I have broadened my petition to include your request rifles Cartridges.

Please keep supporting this petition lets work together to make it perfect. Please email it to your Family, Friends, and even post it on facebook.

I am looking for 5,000+ signatures then I will be sending it to the people listed in the petition.

 

[HOLY LAND]

Sign Here: Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

I am a hunter and have been hunting for years here in Indiana, like most people I started hunting with my father. I love hunting because it's a way for me to get away from city life and relax. Recently, it has become an option for hunters in Indiana to use rifles, but the problem is rifles cartridges that we are allowed to use are very uncommon rounds for rifles. These cartridges are really pistol rounds and hunters could converted a normal rifle to a 358 Hoosier round. Hunters do not have enough options for hunting with common hunting rifle rounds. Many hunters need to have a custom gun made to use the cartridge that is allowed by the state of Indiana. It would be nice if we could bring out our grand fathers 1903 Springfield 30-06 and just go hunting or even use a brand new one off the shelf.

The rules for what we are able to use are both confusing and hard to
understand. It sounds as though we have a lot of choices in rifle cartridges but in reality we do not. I do not want to drive all the way to Kentucky in order to hunt with a 30-06, .308, or even a 7.62x54r. The states allowing rifle hunting are North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Michigan.
I would like to expand the hunting laws to allow rifles that are more common calibers for rifle hunting: 30-30, .223, 300 AAC BLK, 300 Whisper, .308, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 30-06. If you agree with what I request, please sign my petition. This petition will then be directed to Governor: Mike Pence, DNR Director: Cameron F. Clark, and Legislative Director: Chris Smith so we can make this change for the next hunting season 2013-2014.

In to comparison Indiana's Max Case length is 1.8 inches:

*.308 is 2.015" or 0.215" above current max
*7.62x54r is 2.115" or 0.315" above current max
*.30-06 is 2.494" or 0.694" above current max

These are the rules that the state of Indiana allows:

*Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger;

*have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches

*and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antler less seasons.

Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50
Beowulf.

Sign Here: Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

 

[hubel458]

First of all I have the 12ga From Hell thread in reload section.
And I think using big bore blunt bullets whether shotgun, MZ, large bore brass cases,
in built up areas like Indiana and Michigan adds a safety factor to deer hunting.
Most deer here in MI killed at 50 yds or less.By the tens of thousands.

On another forum guns used for Indiana deer hunts were discussed, and seeing as I
have the wildcat 585HE cartridge that is 3.27" long, and a 585SHE that is 2.7",
I cut some to 1.8", and Made what I call the 585 HI, for Indiana. We use
some of the 58cal Minie bullets in our cases and they fit in short case perfect.
And you could use jacketed also.

Couple bullet weights we use are 440gr and 540gr, Case holds 80 gr ball powder, and
can have more energy as 458Win, Moderate load is 4000 ft lbs. Minie ball slugs are
a small fraction of what jkt bullets are, be great for reloaders.
Guys could cast their own, or get them on Gunbroker, etc.

Our cases never wear out. A 440gr at 2000, is great moderate hunting load.
We have great supply of cases to make short ones, 3 barrels of them and
more coming later. Ed

 

[Duce]

My 2-cents: Take a look at the ballistics of many modern muzzle loaders, .458 socom, and the 358 Hoosier. They are better than the 30/30, .35 Rem, and the 45/70. These are readily available, and would be safe, and could be added to the list of legal cartridges...............................<><Duce

 

[Whitsettd8]

Im no expert, but I think the choice of new "rifle rounds" are obscure because these new calibers are based on pistol rounds (or at least have similar ballistics). Those obscure rounds like the .458 socom, etc dont fly as far as a 308, etc.

The reasoning for the limits as I recall are that unlike other states with miles and miles of uninhabited rolling countryside, Indiana is relatively flat/densely populated (compared to states like WV) with a higher number of residential areas abutting hunting lands.


While rifle may be acceptable deep in Yellowwood, its not as safe in a 20 acre stand of trees near a neighborhood. I THINK thats the logic. I cant imagine trying to write a law granular enough to allow high powered rifle in some places but not others.

But I do agree with your argument that choosing those new fangled rounds sucks, resulting in few that can hunt with them. I started looking at a 458 upper, then decided "screw it" and set my sights on a non-SBR 308 hunting rifle. It was actually cheaper to buy a whole hunting rifle. (I wasnt looking for a rifle to use in IN)

And I could be way off base...

The cartridge laws were written to protect the deer heard from over harvesting at a time when the deer population wasn't anywhere near what it is now. It had nothing to do with safety or terrain

 

[hubel458]

Here in southern MI it was put in for safety reasons, never for lack of deer as we have
more deer per sq mile than any other state. Granted I am partial to big bores,
but in the last 26 years here were I live now there has been 3 people I heard of in
20-30 mile radius hit with bullets. And 2 of these people were not out hunting.
All small caliber pointed/semi-pointed bullets.. Deer meat isn't worth anyone hurt or dead.
I see most here set next to bait or food sources at close range , some drive woodlots.
Big bores work fine for those uses, whether fullbore shotgun slugs, sabot slugs, ML, or big bore
brass case cartridge..

I never felt it was sporting to kill them 1/2 mile away. Unless you give them
bullet proof vest and helmet........Ed

 

[1911ly]

Here in southern MI it was put in for safety reasons, never for lack of deer as we have
more deer per sq mile than any other state. Granted I am partial to big bores,
but in the last 26 years here were I live now there has been 3 people I heard of in
20-30 mile radius hit with bullets. And 2 of these people were not out hunting.
All small caliber pointed/semi-pointed bullets.. Deer meat isn't worth anyone hurt or dead.
I see most here set next to bait or food sources at close range , some drive woodlots.
Big bores work fine for those uses, whether fullbore shotgun slugs, sabot slugs, ML, or big bore
brass case cartridge..

I never felt it was sporting to kill them 1/2 mile away. Unless you give them
bullet proof vest and helmet........Ed

Well put! +1

 

[Cerberus]

Here in southern MI it was put in for safety reasons, never for lack of deer as we have
more deer per sq mile than any other state.

Well, this ain't Michigan.

I never felt it was sporting to kill them 1/2 mile away. Unless you give them
bullet proof vest and helmet........Ed

I never felt it sporting to tell others what they could or could not hunt with. And besides that, when was the last time you heard of anyone taking game at 880 yds, this side of the Mississippi River?

 

[hubel458]

Right, but a lot them try long range hits, exagerate ranges, but
with very few good results, a lot of them talk/brag about
extreme range hunting but never do it... So keep the long range small calibers
and train with them, be proficient, so as to have a means to keep the despots at bay.....
and for safety hunt with shorter range big bores.
Emphasis put on safety is sporting. Ed

 

[throttletony]

Holy LAnd, I can appreciate what you're doing here. As others have pointed out , some of the details were off, but it's looking better now. I think this petition should explicitly list allowed calibers (.243, 7mm-08, .308, .44 Mag, etc) AND list specifications for wildcat calibers. (min and max length, bullet diameter, etc)
On a personal note, I think the 30-06 caliber family (270, 25-05, etc) may be a bit much for most of our hunting distances on deer, but I think the 308 family should be allowed since they are just about perfect for our local deer size and distances.
i would also suggest that the minimum should be .243/6mm, Cartridges like the 204/223/22-250 are great, but may not give a quick and humane kill on a deer.

 

[Cerberus]

Truthfully, I've not known too many rifle hunters that would try anything further than 200yds. And I grew up with some really backward goofy hillbillies. Must be a Michigan thing. I don't hunt for sport, I hunt because I like to eat game. If I want sporting I break out the bow. I am going to pay non-resident to hunt in KY this year, simply because they don't think it neccesary to micromanage my firearm. That and I don't care for slug hunting.

I will remain unconvenced that the rifle prohibition is for safety, until they prohibit the rifles usage on all other game as well as deer.

 

[HOLY LAND]

Hello ThrottleTony, I have made the update to the calibers you suggested. I wanted to ask if you would be able to help me make the wildcat caliber min and max length, bullet diameter list for me to add. I am not familiar with them and would want it to be accurate.

Thank you for writing and supporting my thread and petition. I want to do this for all the hunters in Indiana.

 

[hubel458]

Maybe you/ve made the argument for what they have there in Indiana

Quote"I've not known too many rifle hunters that would try anything further than 200yd"

And not being dogmatic about happenings there, I think you may be right that they did it
to protect the herd so it will build back up. It is working as guys say the herd is increasing.

So what is to be upset about, just get get big bore of some kind, kill them at closer range,
Big bores will do that especially 12ga shotgun sabots, big caliber MLs, and 585 HI,

Faster,better kills than 243. I hate it when it takes 3 shots from these to kill at 100yds or less and
that happened twice out back last year.I'm telling them man up and throw away pea-shooters
and get real guns.....Ed.
And with heavy blunt slugs it cuts the down range travel distance for extra public safety.Ed..

 

[avboiler11]

If it took 3 shots from a 243 to kill a deer...the person squeezing that trigger is a pathetic marksman and doesn't need to hunt ever again, regardless of weapon.

Deer are not hard to kill, and you certainly don't need a "big bore" to cleanly & ethically put one down.

223 Ackley, .224 80gr A-Max at about 65 yards...bang/flop.

I think I'm gonna hunt with my 5.56 SPR this year, just to **** off folks that say you can't or shouldn't...

 

[roadrunner681]

Maybe you/ve made the argument for what they have there in Indiana

Quote"I've not known too many rifle hunters that would try anything further than 200yd"

And not being dogmatic about happenings there, I think you may be right that they did it
to protect the herd so it will build back up. It is working as guys say the herd is increasing.

So what is to be upset about, just get get big bore of some kind, kill them at closer range,
Big bores will do that especially 12ga shotgun sabots, big caliber MLs, and 585 HI,

Faster,better kills than 243. I hate it when it takes 3 shots from these to kill at 100yds or less and
that happened twice out back last year.I'm telling them man up and throw away pea-shooters
and get real guns.....Ed.
And with heavy blunt slugs it cuts the down range travel distance for extra public safety.Ed..

you can kill a deer with a 357 dude, there not very tough. maybe some target practice would get you along better than a big bore

 

[tenring]

What is the average Indiana farm size in acres? What is the average distance a deer is taken in Indiana?

 

[Miles42]

Being new to the state I now understand why there is no market for some of the fine hunting rifles I have brought with me. But I also understand the reason. Too much of a danger in a flat state with no hills also it seems every tree in the state has been removed for farming or development.