Ind. state senator wants study on legalizing pot

[pathfinder317]

it's one of those things, they will never stop it, might as well legalize it and collect the tax money.

 

[sepe]

That's the point though. You can brew your own beer and most likely it won't be as tasty as something brewed by professionals. It also requires quite a bit of equipment, labor, etc. Cannabis requires that you take 15 seconds to put a seed in the ground and come back 6 months later. That's why its called weed.

You're technically only allowed to brew or distill so much alcohol without a license. As far as not tasting as good as something brewed by professionals...it is VERY easy to make a really good tasting beer no matter the style you enjoy. If you don't do several steps of filtering it might not be as pretty but the taste can be just as good using a pot, 2 5 gallon food grade buckets, water, and the ingredients. It is very easy to make a clone of your favorite beer and tweak it to make it taste better to you. If you can boil water, check water temperature, read a recipe, and not make a huge mess when bottling...it isn't too labor intensive.

As far as marijuana being legalized in Indiana? I don't think it would be recreational use that is legalized. Medical use, maybe. I've followed NORML and MPP for years now(never smoked and don't really care too). MANY of the articles I've seen have stated that Illinois would need to approve for medical use before Indiana would. That has been shot down every time it has been brought up(a couple times by a few votes in the House...passed Senate in 2009).

I don't see it happening for quite awhile. Medical or otherwise.

 

[rambone]

And as far as taxing to hell, YES! They are taxing the hell out of tanning salons, because this is "bad for you." Marijuana is "bad for you", thus tax it too!

I don't tan, but I strongly disagree with those kinds of taxes too. But I generally am somebody who wants small government without rules, regulations, and taxes on everything.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

grow your own cucumbers,,,grow your own weed,,,use what you want,,,sell the rest...

republicans would die before they allow weed to be sold at a roadside farmstand along with the sweet corn and tomatoes...

this all is an outgrowth of a really bad and scripturally wrong strain of christianity that got a foothold about 400 years ago...

republicans talk all about property rights and limited government,,,but theyre the first so get a national guard so big that they use it to destroy your property...

machete -

may I submit that you would get a lot farther by NOT telling Republicans what they believe.... More and more of them (myself included) are arriving at the same conclusions that you are. But you insist on dropping crap on what else they believe in. There's a lot of libertarian leaning republicans. So why not WELCOME friends to your side - instead of whipping out the arrogance and getting in their face and telling them what they believe?

I say this as a tactical matter. More and more people are deciding that the statist gubbamint has crossed the line. We're gonna need all of the friends we can get. So why **** them off?

 

[mcolford]

I don't tan, but I strongly disagree with those kinds of taxes too. But I generally am somebody who wants small government without rules, regulations, and taxes on everything.

I dont tan either, but my wife does, so yeah thats a tax that affects me too. I dont agree with it, but unfortunately thats out of my control, and unfortunately, I dont seeing that getting pulled back. I agree though, there are a lot of taxes and soforth, but until we get leaders to work for free, we have to pay their salaries somehow.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Perhaps you could elaborate on these social, economic, and administrative factors. I don't see how the comparison is that far off. As a matter of fact, prohibition law always leads to a black market. Sex, abortion, guns, you name it.

Ok back...

Alcohol has been a staple of American culture (referencing it's intoxicating properties) from colonial times. It's hard to convince Americans to accept outlawing a substance that, to this day, the vast majority of Americans have grown up with. Hell, Jesus drank alcohol. That fact, alone, in a strongly Puritanical society makes it difficult to demonize the substance.
Marijuana on the other hand, though used for a variety of industrial purposes, had never, up until very recently been a preferred choice for "leisure."

Secondly, alcohol had legally (before Prohibition) be produced and distributed in massive amounts here on our own shores. All of the major brewers, didn't simply "pop up" after prohibition. They always existed, and once prohibition hit, they simply diversified, waiting for the day when they could produce again.
In the meantime places like Canada and Mexico, where alcohol was still produced legally, filled the gap.

Why is that important you may ask? Well, it's simple. When prohibition was repealed, the engines of legal manufacturing needed little more than a dusting off to start catering to the needs of the general public. This is where alcohol prohibition and marijuana legalization widely diverge.
There are no commercial means of production, of marijuana, in the United States. The vast majority of marijuana, is imported from S. America (where it is illegal too). I'm sure I don't need to illustrate the types of people that a running marijuana production, down there. Let's just say that they are the worst type.

Marijuana is the cash crop for the cartels. They own the means of production. The Mafia conversely, had no hand in the actual manufacture of Alcohol. If they had, it's debatable that their power would have ever waned. That said, if marijuana is made legal, how is it to be produced on massive scales? And if it is, guess whose pocket your taking money out of? Yep, the Cartels. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't see guys making billions in drugs walking away from the business. IMO, at the very least, if Americans are going to start producing and selling marijuana locally, they're going to have to "pay" to do it.... and I'm not talking about the govt.

Cliffs
-Jesus drank alcohol, but never a blunt... society approves
-Cartels control production of marijuana, Mob never controlled production of alcohol
-Cartels shakedown American "growers" if legalized, to protect their interests

 

[Dr_O]

Can you just imagine the chaos following legalization?

Lobbying groups would have to be created so that the industry can buy favorable treatment.
Senators and congressmen would have to be bought and sold.
A .gov bureaucratic agency would have to be created to oversee the industry.
Wall St. gets involved.

Pande-freakin-monium.

 

[ATOMonkey]

There is most definitely commercial means of production in the United States. It would be relatively easy for cigarette manufacturers to roll over to marijuana from tobacco. Furthermore, people will find a way to commercially produce joints for their share of a $250B market.

Also, cartels will have to compete with private growers as well. The assumption that nothing will change, probably isn't the most accurate. In all probability, the cartels will go out of business from increased competition. This increased competition will also force down the price of marijuana, further erroding the profit margins of cartels.

Also, this whole "shake down" thing only works if the current model persists. Is a cartel going to "shake down" Eli Lilly, Philip Morris, Pfizer, etc etc etc... This will not be a simple dispute between dealers.

 

[Goosepond Monster]

Marijuana is the cash crop for the cartels. They own the means of production. The Mafia conversely, had no hand in the actual manufacture of Alcohol. If they had, it's debatable that their power would have ever waned. That said, if marijuana is made legal, how is it to be produced on massive scales? And if it is, guess whose pocket your taking money out of? Yep, the Cartels. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't see guys making billions in drugs walking away from the business. IMO, at the very least, if Americans are going to start producing and selling marijuana locally, they're going to have to "pay" to do it.... and I'm not talking about the govt.

I think you would be surprised at the amount of domestic pot there is as well as a large amount being smuggled in from Canada.

 

[machete]

Marijuana is the cash crop for the cartels. They own the means of production. The Mafia conversely, had no hand in the actual manufacture of Alcohol. If they had, it's debatable that their power would have ever waned. That said, if marijuana is made legal, how is it to be produced on massive scales? And if it is, guess whose pocket your taking money out of? Yep, the Cartels. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't see guys making billions in drugs walking away from the business. IMO, at the very least, if Americans are going to start producing and selling marijuana locally, they're going to have to "pay" to do it.... and I'm not talking about the govt.

-Cartels shakedown American "growers" if legalized, to protect their interests

there are lots of legal growers and grow shops in cali,,, none get shaken down by the cartels...

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

I don't think pot would be abused much more if it were legal. I think there might be a slight increase in people occasionally using if the change in law also changed their employers policy on pot. Like the people that won't smoke pot because they can be tested at work and fired if positive.
I do not smoke pot because I can be tested by my employer and fired not because it is illegal. If it were legalized I wouldn't run out and buy a bail or pound or whatever and turn into a Cheech or Chong but I might occasionaly burn one around the camp fire with friends, that is if my job wouldn't fire me.

Depending on what state you live in and it's employment laws, smoking legalized pot away from the workplace (and on your own free time) could still be an enforceable violation of workplace rules and result in you being fired.

There are employers who screen employees for nicotine in an effort to keep their insurance costs down.

This guy failed a nicotine test, was fired, and left SOL:
Massachusetts man fired for smoking has lawsuit tossed by federal judge | masslive.com

Surely there would be even more employers rolling out similar policies if pot was legalized, so long as they were in states with laws that gave them the leeway to do so.

 

[mcolford]

Depending on what state you live in and it's employment laws, smoking legalized pot away from the workplace (and on your own free time) could still be an enforceable violation of workplace rules and result in you being fired.

There are employers who screen employees for nicotine in an effort to keep their insurance costs down.

This guy failed a nicotine test, was fired, and left SOL:
Massachusetts man fired for smoking has lawsuit tossed by federal judge | masslive.com

Surely there would be even more employers rolling out similar policies if pot was legalized, so long as they were in states with laws that gave them the leeway to do so.

State employees are offered a $10/off their insurance costs bi-weekly if they dont use nicotine. If you lie about it, and they do test, you are fired. Its policy.

 

[Kutnupe14]

there are lots of legal growers and grow shops in cali,,, none get shaken down by the cartels...

That's because IMO, in the grand scheme of things, their market share is miniscule. The mafia didn't go after Earl and Tater brewing their own "shine" in Kentucky either.

 

[Kutnupe14]

There is most definitely commercial means of production in the United States. It would be relatively easy for cigarette manufacturers to roll over to marijuana from tobacco. Furthermore, people will find a way to commercially produce joints for their share of a $250B market.

Also, cartels will have to compete with private growers as well. The assumption that nothing will change, probably isn't the most accurate. In all probability, the cartels will go out of business from increased competition. This increased competition will also force down the price of marijuana, further erroding the profit margins of cartels.

Also, this whole "shake down" thing only works if the current model persists. Is a cartel going to "shake down" Eli Lilly, Philip Morris, Pfizer, etc etc etc... This will not be a simple dispute between dealers.

I see your point, and I'd agree if marijuana was an intellectual property type item. But it's not viagra, hydrocodone, or oxycotin. Marijauna can be grown and harvested by anybody, easily and cheaply. The question is, would a private citizen buy something from one of the pham. co.s which would obviously carry a higher price tag, when Jose is selling it in the hood at half price?
Further, what do you guys think the Cartels would do? I'm not buying that they would simply throw up their hands and say "curses, foiled again!" If they had something to move on to, which could make up lost profit (like the Mob when it went from alcohol to drugs), then them walking away seems plausible. But, I can't think of anything that would make up that loss in profit margin.

 

[machete]

I see your point, and I'd agree if marijuana was an intellectual property type item. But it's not viagra, hydrocodone, or oxycotin. Marijauna can be grown and harvested by anybody, easily and cheaply. The question is, would a private citizen buy something from one of the pham. co.s which would obviously carry a higher price tag, when Jose is selling it in the hood at half price?

why would we buy from pharm companies when marlboro would sell it and marlboro already has lots of farmers and fields they know and use??? if restaurants were 20 bucks to eat at mcdonalds,,,would you go to joses house for $5??? sure,,,and mcdonalds would knock down their prices...

free market is a good thing!!!

Further, what do you guys think the Cartels would do? I'm not buying that they would simply throw up their hands and say "curses, foiled again!" If they had something to move on to, which could make up lost profit (like the Mob when it went from alcohol to drugs), then them walking away seems plausible. But, I can't think of anything that would make up that loss in profit margin.

well,,,theres a huge amount of buying and growing being done legally in cali through the growers and cooperatives and dispensaries,,,and the cartels do nothing about that,,,plus,,,im not going to live my life in fear of gangsters...

legalize it,,,already!!! were overdue for some freedom in this country...

 

[ATOMonkey]

Joe can't sell it in the hood at half the price. Not even close.

Do you buy your beer or whiskey from Jethro?

A big company will be able to sell it in better packaging at a higher quality for a much lower price. It's called economies of scale.

The other advantage to buying from a commercial operation is that you have a much much better idea of the quality than you do buying it from Joe in the hood, or even from Jimmy down the hall.

The convenience factor can't be overlooked either.

 

[Goosepond Monster]

But, I can't think of anything that would make up that loss in profit margin.

I can and they're already making it...meth.

 

[Mrkeller]

Cannabis will never be legalized because it CAN'T be taxed. A person only needs to grow a plant the size of a large tomato plant in order to satisfy his personal demand for a year.

Why can't it be taxed? It's a plant just like tabacco. And growing a plant the size of a large tomato plant doesn't produce as much as you think. Most people that smoke pot usually smoke a joint or more a day. A joint usually weighs around 1.5 grams. The average plant has potential to produce up to a pound, a plant the size of a tomato plant wouldn't come close to producing that much. There are 453.6 grams per pound. You would need double that, atleast, to keep some one satisfied for a year.

Now if they were to legalize pot, it would help get us out of debt, save money on legal issues, plus create jobs. Write into legislation that you have to have a license to grow pot. And have yearly fees. Once it's been grown, harvested, processed and in stores put a tax on it. There are to simple occasions where the government makes money and keeps the people happy.

What most people don't realize is that marijuana/hemp can be used for more than just getting high. It can be used for many other things such as clothing, medicine, paper, food for live stock, bio fuel ect. I could keep going on the positive things, but that would take all day and I have to get ready for work.

 

[Mrkeller]

Cannabis requires that you take 15 seconds to put a seed in the ground and come back 6 months later. That's why its called weed. .

Well yes and no. You can just go plant a seed, but the chances of it actually growing and being female, thus produce the buds, are pretty slim. To get a good crop you really do need the right conditions.

 

[Goosepond Monster]

Why can't it be taxed? It's a plant just like tabacco. And growing a plant the size of a large tomato plant doesn't produce as much as you think. Most people that smoke pot usually smoke a joint or more a day. A joint usually weighs around 1.5 grams. The average plant has potential to produce up to a pound, a plant the size of a tomato plant wouldn't come close to producing that much. There are 453.6 grams per pound. You would need double that, atleast, to keep some one satisfied for a year.

It depends how you tend to the plant and what type of plant it is. 1.5 grams per doobie? Someone is rolling themselves a hogger. If you're growing the right kind of pot you shouldn't need nearly that much in one doobie.