Ignoring gender?

[17 squirrel]

absolutely, Light that candle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It seems to be anything related to sex has gone analog...nothing is considered abnormal any longer--crowd depending.

Ill take the normal route please..... but with a dash of normal freaky.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Ill take the normal route please..... but with a dash of normal freaky.

Sounds like you're saying the other alternatives aren't "normal". Be careful, that's pretty homophobic.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Will stand partially corrected. I would suspect much more due to psychological causes as opposed to genetic makeup of the brain. All that aside, how many of you would want your young daughters in the same restroom or showering with a male who is having gender issues?

I really really believe I'm a cat, so you must provide a sandbox for me.

 

[HoughMade]

I really really believe I'm a cat, so you must provide a sandbox for me.

This thread is not about sandboxes. It's about the exclusion of cats from the Girl Scouts.

...but if people have been paying attention to the Girl Scouts for the last couple of decades, this shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

 

[chezuki]

Are YOU, SERIOUS ????? I was born with a P**is, and I have NEVER doubted what or WHO I am .....

I yam, what I yam !!!!!

Ah yes... The old "I don't have it so it doesn't exist" argument. Classic.

 

[poptab]

Ah yes... The old "I don't have it so it doesn't exist" argument. Classic.

Being derisive is definitely going to win hearts and minds.

 

[17 squirrel]

How about the Girl scouts stay with girls born with two X chromosomes that believe they are girls and boys born with XY chromosomes that believe they are boys stay as Boy Scouts of America.
And those whom identify other that what was assigned at birth or other lifestyle besides hetrosexual become Baden Powell scouts. Easy peasy.....

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

The plumbing is selected long before birth, at conception, in fact. You're either an XX or an XY, or very rarely (n)XY, where n can be 2-5. (n)XY pretty well messes various things up, rising with n. Anyway, there are differences generally associated with XX vs XY, you know those things men and women have so much difficulty understanding about each other, but some factors (exposure to hormones, chemicals, whatever) between conception and viability that can affect the structure of the mind and emotions, leaving one with structures somewhat different to what's expected. It's not just sexuality, everything stands to be influenced.

What I have a problem with is the large possibility of perverts taking advantage of these situations for bad intent. They may be in earnest, but how are we to determine that to our satisfaction when the stakes are very real damage to others? There should be groups available for a whole spectrum of interests. Boys could benefit from some home ec, girls could likewise from some mechanics, tools, whatnot. Each should also have the option of a group that's just boys or just girls. Too many times, what I smell around these debates is a (malicious?) desire to tear down any tradition. I'm not ok with that.

 

[HoughMade]

How about the Girl scouts stay with girls born with two X chromosomes that believe they are girls and boys born with XY chromosomes that believe they are boys stay as Boy Scouts of America.
And those whom identify other that what was assigned at birth or other lifestyle besides hetrosexual become Baden Powell scouts. Easy peasy.....

You don't quite get the "celebrate me because of my differences, now ignore the differences" ethos.

 

[Leo]

I am not degree'd in medicine, I do have a Masters degree in Psych, still working on my Phd. Never the less, I did pay attention in class where they talked about X and Y chromosomes that came into play at the initial dividing of the egg. That never changes, those gender markers stay for a persons entire life, no matter what the person believes. If a person does not have any attraction for persons of the opposite sex, there is no change in their X or Y chromosome assignment, even post surgery/hormone treatment. That is scientifically true, no matter what opinions or politics come into play.

 

[chezuki]

Being derisive is definitely going to win hearts and minds.

My heart and mind collection is currently complete.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

All this intellectual posting has thrown me into menopause! . . . Don't judge me!!

 

[Bill of Rights]

Will stand partially corrected. I would suspect much more due to psychological causes as opposed to genetic makeup of the brain. All that aside, how many of you would want your young daughters in the same restroom or showering with a male who is having gender issues?

Would you have the same objection to a son in the room with someone with 2 X chromosomes who identifies as male?

I don't want my 4 year old granddaughter, using, or knowing about that ..... until the "time" is right .....

Good luck with that one. She's going to learn. The question is who will teach her and what will be taught. You can control that, early, or have it controlled for you, by ignoring it.
Now, I don't mean she needs to be playing with condoms like balloons or learning the full anatomy lesson first thing, but just as you teach a little at a time with gun safety (a la Eddie Eagle) and move over time to more involved subjects such as actually firing a shot, so, with this, she may need to know a few things before she's reached that "time" to which you refer.

When many of us were growing up, we were shielded from the world, not allowed to learn about things until we were older. Result: People grew up in ignorance of some things, and maybe in some ways were better off, but in others were badly handicapped. (I was 27 before I learned I could do a closed endorsement on a check and it was useless to anyone but me, even signed. I'd been taught you never endorse a check before you get to the bank.)

So my question is: What is wrong with an organization choosing to change its requirements?

More to the point, what is it that has everyone feeling so threatened? The visceral anger at this sounds to me like it's coming from fear. Is it that someone might look attractive to you until you find out she's physically a he? or is it that another physically-male person feels more female than male, and that worries people because they now fear they might do likewise? Or is it something else entirely?

I don't know what GSA teaches girls. My daughter went to camp one year and didn't do GSA otherwise. I know BSA teaches traditionally masculine things that I think would benefit many people (including me) to learn, regardless of their gender.

Bottom line, if the GSA wants to not be exclusively female, and that bothers you, teach your daughters and granddaughters what the GSA used to teach only to girls, and I'd say the same for the BSA, regarding males and masculinity. I'd agree that boys need to be boys and girls need to be girls, but your plumbing doesn't determine the benefit you'd receive from learning either how to build a fire or how to mend a torn shirt, how to change your oil or how to change a diaper.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

--Robert A. Heinlein

Blessings,
Bill

 

[steveh_131]

If I remember correctly, there are 5 factors used to determine gender.

1. Chromosomes
2. External anatomy (penis/vagina)
3. Hormone types
4. Internal anatomy (uterus/prostate)
5. Gonads vs. ovaries

Human beings are born with a variety of combinations of these factors. Boiling it down to your 'plumbing' or your chromosomes is over-simplifying the issue.

Additionally, I think that there is a sixth factor: emotions and personality. Knowing that people can be born with any combination of 1-5, is it really so unbelievable that a man could be born with the emotions, personality, and preferences of a woman?

As a Christian, it would be simpler for me to say "No, that's not possible". But knowing that mixing up #1-5 is possible, I'm not sure I can make that argument.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I am not degree'd in medicine, I do have a Masters degree in Psych, still working on my Phd. Never the less, I did pay attention in class where they talked about X and Y chromosomes that came into play at the initial dividing of the egg. That never changes, those gender markers stay for a persons entire life, no matter what the person believes. If a person does not have any attraction for persons of the opposite sex, there is no change in their X or Y chromosome assignment, even post surgery/hormone treatment. That is scientifically true, no matter what opinions or politics come into play.

Which sex someone is attracted to is not a factor. How many people go into Scouting to find a love interest? That's not its purpose.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

All this intellectual posting has thrown me into menopause! . . . Don't judge me!!

It's about time.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

It's about time.

Does this mean the hot flashes will stop?
My problem is I'm a rich man trapped in a poor man's wallet! . . Yes I said WALLET!

 

[HoughMade]

...As a Christian, it would be simpler for me to say "No, that's not possible". But knowing that mixing up #1-5 is possible, I'm not sure I can make that argument.

I've little doubt that those and other factors can be "mixed up" and make for some very difficult issues. When the world became imperfect, the effects were wide ranging.

Without getting deeper into theology, as this is not the forum for that (literally), I will say that, regardless, one is always responsible for their behavior, and predisposition, even genetic, does not justify behavior. Behavior is either immoral or not.

How we deal with young ones who are victims of "The Fall" in this arena (as we all are in some way), that's the complicated part.

 

[spec4]

I don't have a son but if I did, I would object to him being in a room (shower, restroom) with a female thinking she is a male. When I was in my early/mid teens, no way was I ready for a sexual encounter, although I spent a lot of time thinking about it. Being put in that situation could be a disaster for an immature kid.