If you saw this guy, would you shoot him?

[remauto1187]

As for the first video.... Are you f'n kidding me? The officer should at the very least be crucified in a civil suit and lose his job. I alone looking at GRAINY video can tell IMMEDIATELY the old man had a cane. So what, he got out of the truck, show me where there is a law that states you must remain in the vehicle during a traffic stop! There aint one. I aint never seen a 70+yr old man with the speed and agility of a 18yr old, this old man was calm, moving rather slowly and certainly showed ZERO signs of agression. He didnt even point his CANE at anyone.

And the 2nd....first, for all the ones asking if the cop died. Did you not hear the last 10 seconds of the video where the officer sound like he had sinus problems? That was him choking on his own blood from a lungshot. He obviously had every reason to immediately open fire on the crazy man with the rifle. Appears the officer unfortunately wasnt a very good aim under pressure. The shooter deserves an expedited trip to the needle room.

 

[henktermaat]

No, it's not an assumption. In a me vs you scenario, the "me" always wins when "you" is perceived to be a threat. And I would think this obviously isn't unique to police, would you agree?

I would totally agree with your last sentence. The problem is that officers seem to be trained to see threats everywhere, without thought in a knee-jerk fashion. In addition, it's a big problem when one class of people get immunity and paid vacation for their deadly mistakes, and the rest of us get prison, or death.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I've been paying close attention to this, looking at the patterns. Judging from the comments these fine officers make, I assume officer safety is drilled into them day in and day out. It's time this nation took a close look at police training programs.

As far as traffic stops? I'd disagree. The trainings work. This occurred right after the Daytona 500. Since that time here have been tens of millions of traffic stops. Where are the other people shot during routine traffic stops?

And I looked for other versions of this encounter, to see if there's something I'm missing. Apparently, the driver didn't immediately pull over, when he was initially "lit up" by the officer. The officer then gave a description of the vehicle, and advised that the driver was "still rolling (which typically starts other officers moving thatr direction)." The driver eventually pulled over, gets out of the car, and reaches in the back of the bed.

He's another version:
Police Shootout - Deputy Kyle Dinkheller - Laurens County, GA - YouTube

I wish they'd show the entire vid to know how long, exactly, the officer was behind the vehicle with his light on. Even in this vid, the vehicle is already "lit up."

 

[Kutnupe14]

As far as traffic stops? I'd disagree. The trainings work. This occurred right after the Daytona 500. Since that time here have been tens of millions of traffic stops. Where are the other people shot during routine traffic stops?

And I looked for other versions of this encounter, to see if there's something I'm missing. Apparently, the driver didn't immediately pull over, when he was initially "lit up" by the officer. The officer then gave a description of the vehicle, and advised that the driver was "still rolling (which typically starts other officers moving thatr direction)." The driver eventually pulled over, gets out of the car, and reaches in the back of the bed.

He's another version:
Police Shootout - Deputy Kyle Dinkheller - Laurens County, GA - YouTube

I wish they'd show the entire vid to know how long, exactly, the officer was behind the vehicle with his light on. Even in this vid, the vehicle is already "lit up."

Ooops, gave the wrong link:
Video shows South Carolina deputy crying after shooting 70-year-old man - CBS News

 

[henktermaat]

As far as traffic stops? I'd disagree. The trainings work. This occurred right after the Daytona 500. Since that time here have been tens of millions of traffic stops. Where are the other people shot during routine traffic stops?

Right on script again... "It's just an isolated incident!"

As for "lit up", it was an old man. Slow, probably a little deaf. Better shoot him. Officer Safety.

 

[henktermaat]

That old lady is truly lucky she didn't get shot by this officer as well. She did get out of the truck after all. Officer safety!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Right on script again... "It's just an isolated incident!"

As for "lit up", it was an old man. Slow, probably a little deaf. Better shoot him. Officer Safety.

An old man and apparently a Vietnam vet.... neither which would be obvious, at night, from 20-30 feet away, unless one is a carnival age guesser and a psychic.

 

[henktermaat]

An old man and apparently a Vietnam vet.... neither which would be obvious, at night, from 20-30 feet away, unless one is a carnival age guesser and a psychic.

Yep, we get it. Officer safety first and foremost. It's always better just to shoot when you can't quite see what's going on. Hey - paid vacation

I know you're not personally responsible or to blame, but your defense of this absolutely sickens me.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yep, we get it. Officer safety first and foremost. It's always better just to shoot when you can't quite see what's going on. Hey - paid vacation

I know you're not personally responsible or to blame, but your defense of this absolutely sickens me.

I'm not defending this, per se. I'd call this a "bad," shoot because an innocent was hurt. However, in taking in the totality of the circumstances, I'm not going to crucify this officer. Law Enforcement isn't immune to mistakes, tragic or otherwise. Things like this are going to happen, even if everything is done by the book. For all the bad apples that do bad things on purpose, I think it's going a bit over the top when one starts pointing fingers at a guy who reacted the way he did on the limited information he had, and totally within accepted LE protocols.
I stand by this NOT being a training issue. If training was the issue, we'd see a lot more of these instances. I can't even think of one that is remotely similar to this.

 

[Lebowski]

Yikes! It does appear the cop quickly became aware of his mistake and the sound of his voice sort of reflects that. I still think he needs to be punished, if he wasn't (Sorry, long thread. Didn't see what happened to the cop but read the old man lived).

 

[Denny347]

In the second video, I thought when he was dancing around on the roadway would have been an excellent time to taze him.

1998. All we had were batons and OC spray. He has to be ACTIVELY resisting for me to deploy my taser per my general orders. Anymore, it's easier to go "hands on".

 

[88GT]

You really think it's easy to pull the trigger on another human being? There's some people in for a real eye opening if they're ever caught in a "pull the trigger" situation. Good Luck with that.
Leo or not, military or not, just hope you only "what if" your scenarios.

Apparently it is, given the propensity of others to do it on a daily basis.

Let's not derail this thread. You and others have an issue with traffic stops being so frequent. Ok so? Iff it's an illegal stop then there's an issue, but the law allowed for the vehicle to be stopped due to an expired tag. So let's move on; we can debate the merits of traffic stops in another thread in you wish to start one up.

Only from the standpoint that traffic stops are so often an excuse to detain someone for another purpose which the LEO doesn't have a legal right to stop the individual for. But that's not why I took exception to your first comment about traffic stops, McVeigh, and the implied argument that traffic stops have some correlation to solving crimes or preventing crimes. Frequency is not the issue. You could double or even triple the number of stops and that alone wouldn't cause me concern. It's why people are being stopped and the excuses LE makes to justify it that irk me.

No, it's not an assumption. In a me vs you scenario, the "me" always wins when "you" is perceived to be a threat. And I would think this obviously isn't unique to police, would you agree?

That is the nature of humans, but I believe that justifying the actions of LEO with that and that alone is morally wrong. An agent of the state with a greater authority to take a life should have at least as high a threshold for a justified shoot as a non-LEO. I personally believe that LE should have a higher threshold, given the nature of their authority over non-LEO and the de facto immunity that comes with the badge. I would settle for equal though. One thing's for sure, the dad in the other thread that shot the boy in his daughter's bed has a greater chance of facing prosecution because he didn't carry a badge than if he had committed the same act under the same circumstances as LEO.

 

[Bunnykid68]

An old man and apparently a Vietnam vet.... neither which would be obvious, at night, from 20-30 feet away, unless one is a carnival age guesser and a psychic.

At night? That place was lit up like a Christmas tree and we were only looking thru crappy video

 

[SSGSAD]

Well, I am going to be BRUTALLY HONEST here..... I would have probably done the same thing, as the Officer, in the first video .....

In the second vid., I would have told him, ONCE, to drop the gun, radioed for back up, and drew my weapon, per whatever policy my dept. had .....

I have a two true stories.... one happened right here in Indy .....


Taco bell got robbed, over near Arlington ave. At NIGHT of course. IPD, was dispatched, a chase happened, and when the bg, stopped, he reached in to the rear seat of the car, and the Cop, shot him..... Don't know if he lived or not ..... People came unglued, over this shooting .....

BUT, guess what..... There were two bags of money, in the back seat, marked Taco Bell .....


I lived in Rural, Miss. I had a friend who drove a white Ford Van. He was pulled over and detained, for several HOURS..... WHY, because he drove a white Ford van, and some kind of Felony, had recently happened, and the bg, were driving a white Ford Van .....

 

[88GT]

Taco bell got robbed, over near Arlington ave. At NIGHT of course. IPD, was dispatched, a chase happened, and when the bg, stopped, he reached in to the rear seat of the car, and the Cop, shot him..... Don't know if he lived or not ..... People came unglued, over this shooting .....

BUT, guess what..... There were two bags of money, in the back seat, marked Taco Bell .....


I lived in Rural, Miss. I had a friend who drove a white Ford Van. He was pulled over and detained, for several HOURS..... WHY, because he drove a white Ford van, and some kind of Felony, had recently happened, and the bg, were driving a white Ford Van .....

Not even close to the story in the OP.

 

[Somemedic]

The initial video along with Kutnupe's statements (containing the aire of superiority) would indicate theres a need for a revamp of the curriculum at some police academies.

These sort of tragedies could have been avoided by having 2 officers riding together. If officer safety is so damn paramount why were both of these officers alone on the road? Wanna reduce their stress levels? What might prevent attacks on single officers during traffic stops? Put multiple officers in a single squad. Until then your argument about their safety seems invalid.

 

[nakinate]

At night? That place was lit up like a Christmas tree and we were only looking thru crappy video

 

[Frosty]

I really didn't need to see either of those videos tonight!

 

[Kutnupe14]

The initial video along with Kutnupe's statements (containing the aire of superiority) would indicate theres a need for a revamp of the curriculum at some police academies.

These sort of tragedies could have been avoided by having 2 officers riding together. If officer safety is so damn paramount why were both of these officers alone on the road? Wanna reduce their stress levels? What might prevent attacks on single officers during traffic stops? Put multiple officers in a single squad. Until then your argument about their safety seems invalid.

"air of superiority?"

Kut (scratched head)

 

[nakinate]

"air of superiority?"

Kut (scratched head)

You are LEO. So inherently, you are superior to the rest of us right?