Idiot fined for killing bald eagle

[purple72]

Wasn't there a video link on here awhile back where an eagle swooped down a mountainside and pulled a goat off a cliff? Kinda looked like an act of aggression to me. The goat certainly wasn't a threat. Anyway, since the eagle is such a "national symbol", what does that symbolize? And before anyone says anything, yes, we can all justify it by saying the bird was just hunting for food. Of course, there is another video floating around of an eagle taking down a doe on a dead run. I believe this one was strictly for sport. Point is, I question whether the eagle is a true representation of the US.

 

[ferg409]

eagle

its a great american bird. why kill it. i also served in viet nam for our
county an flag.

 

[Jay]

I question whether the eagle is a true representation of the US.

Nah, it's just on most all of our currency for the hell of it. And the olive branches in one claw, are defended by the arrows in the other....in case the deployment of olive branches falls on deaf ears.

By the way.... in my opinion, the Eagle better represents our country than our current President. The Eagle protects it's offspring, rather than drains them, and tries to ensure the survival of it's young by defending it's nest, rather than praising those who would destroy it.

 

[JetGirl]

Nah, it's just on most all of our currency for the hell of it. And the olive branches in one claw, are defended by the arrows in the other....in case the deployment of olive branches falls on deaf ears.

By the way.... in my opinion, the Eagle better represents our country than our current President. The Eagle protects it's offspring, rather than drains them, and tries to ensure the survival of it's young by defending it's nest, rather than praising those who would destroy it.

Oh THAT'S gettin' repped. Yes, indeedy.

 

[Bigum1969]

Wasn't there a video link on here awhile back where an eagle swooped down a mountainside and pulled a goat off a cliff? Kinda looked like an act of aggression to me. The goat certainly wasn't a threat. Anyway, since the eagle is such a "national symbol", what does that symbolize? And before anyone says anything, yes, we can all justify it by saying the bird was just hunting for food. Of course, there is another video floating around of an eagle taking down a doe on a dead run. I believe this one was strictly for sport. Point is, I question whether the eagle is a true representation of the US.

:wtf:

Seriously.

 

[22lr]

Ok ill come out and apologize for going off like that. I still believe crimes against people hold a far greater importance but I guess I argued my point very poorly. The Game Wardens have a job to do and they do it well.

I didn't mean to come across as unpatriotic but I guess a lot of you thought I did (as referenced by the dozens of neg reps telling me to leave the forum). Personally im saddened to hear that 2 eagles died, but Bald Eagles are still wild animals and 10k isn't even spent to catch the killers of humans. Its not about the money being spent, its about the fact were spending more money on a Eagle killer than we are on a human killer.

I guess I just value Human life to greatly.

 

[Jay]

please, enough already..... I'm askin' nice.....

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

22lr, thank you for coming back and explaining the reasoning for your initial comments. With your words that were there at the time that I posted I read your comment as saying effectively that, "Nothing has meaning. It is what it is." Like saying my wedding ring has no symbolic value, its just a piece of jewelry or that my grandmother's favorite piece of china handed down through the family was just a coffee cup.

Stemming from my experiences in the military and the wonderful men and women that I served with, I, personally, tend to place symbolic value on items that represent to me the freedoms that I fought for, the freedoms the men and women before me fought for and those that came back to U.S. soil in a wood or metal box draped with a flag fought for, it is important to me to recognize and honor those objects that men dreamed of seeing being flown (flag) in peace or soaring with majesty (eagle).

The Vietnam POW who sewed the U.S. flag inside his ragged shirt to inspire the other POWs who, as a group, said the Pledge of Allegiance to it each day until they were caught and severely beaten for it. Some say that it gave them something to live for each day.

I physically cringe when a person talks about burning a flag, shooting an eagle or committing an act against my country because I have literally shed blood, sweat and tears for my country, a country I love because of the freedoms I have - to marry whom I like, to practice any religion I like or no religion at all, to work as hard or as little as I wish even though I may go hungry at night suffering the consequences of my actions. I am allowed by my inalienable rights to be who I want to be, as big a character or as small a character as my work ethic can carve a niche for me in this world.

I understand your frustration with the disconnect of ideas where we will "spend" $10,000 (the reward) investigating the death of an animal when a human's sanctity of life has been violated by being murdered under terrible conditions. I get that. I do.

My son asked me the other day what we would sell first if we ran out of food. I told him that I would find a home for one or both dogs that we have before I would let our family go hungry, or the dogs would go hungry before we would. To him the dogs ARE family and the idea of giving them to someone else or feeding them very little was unconscionable. To me, they are animals, we are humans, we come first. Some tears were shed by him. But I do understand that the dogs are simply animals in the smaller picture. In the bigger picture they are friends, companions, jokesters and comedians, all with different personalities that makes my life a bit easier during my roughest times of sickness or despair.

I don't give value to symbols, people or possessions very easily. It's just the way that I am. I'm kinda crusty. To the symbols of our country I do value them because of the wondrous things that I have been given by this country, and I value them because of the personal loss and sacrifice I have encountered in my life and the lives of my military brethren.

Thank you again for explaining your words.

 

[Jay]

Semper Fi, Spook ...... repped

 

[Fargo]

What is frustrating me about this entire discussion is that the federal law this guy was prosecuted under and which the reward was offered under has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with protection our national symbol. In fact, under the Johnson case it legally cannot as Johnson holds that desecration of national symbols is protected political speech.

The Bald Eagle Protection Act is part of Title 16 which is the CONSERVATION title of the U.S. code. Those RAH RAH'ing around this guys prosecution need to realized that his prosecution has nothing to do with his disrespect for this country and everything to do with the EPA/FWS flexing their muscles. I am with you as far as outrage over this guy disrespecting our nation but be aware that that is not why he was prosecuted.

Also, as noted above, offering a 10k reward for a misdemeanor against an animal just doesn't sit well with me. If that reward was being offered because of this guys disrespect to our country I would be on board, but make no mistake about it; that is not why this guy was prosecuted or the reward offered. To put a fine point on it, if this guy were able to show that he was being prosecuted because he had killed the national symbol, his conviction would almost certainly be overturned under Johnson

Joe

 

[Lost Californian]

Fargo....Al Capone was a gangster criminal extra-ordinaire, yet the ONLY thing the Feds could bust him on was tax evasion, not the murders, intimidation, raketeering(spelling?), booze running, extortion, bribery, and all that jazz.

Sometimes the law is insufficient, so you use the best law you can use.

 

[ATM]

Al Capone was a gangster criminal extra-ordinaire...

As a mole hunter extra-ordinaire, I can relate.

For instance, suppose moles where a symbol of national pride and not merely loathesome creatures of nuisance. My neighbors would likely turn me in for eradicating the nasty buggers (as I do) even if the only law I was breaking was some minor lawn covenant. Wouldn't even take a reward.


I do hates me some moles.

 

[Fargo]

How exactly does one hunt moles? I've considered waiting for the ground to move and then dispensing 230 grains of justice but have never tried it.

 

[ATM]

I prefer a pitchfork. It seems more personal that way to me.

See this thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_great_outdoors/39489-the_molle_pest.html

 

[wtfd661]

10,000 dollars isn't enough of a reward and 5,000 dollars isn't enough of a punishment for intentionally killing a bald eagle and I can say this and still value human life.

After being in Law Enforcement for over 21 yrs now, plus being both a volunteer and part time paid Firefighter/EMT for almost 15 yrs in a fairly good size community (350,000), I've seen enough human tragedy, both accidental and intentional. The problem is that some of you seem to be under the impression that by making this a crime with a reward some how takes away from mine and others like me who's job it is to investigate, protect and generally clean up societies mess. It doesn't.

To me the Bald Eagle represents something larger than one's self, not only to all Americans but to the World, it represents the strength, nobility, courage, dependability, and the will to protect, both by its presence and by its physical abilities, not only itself but it's offspring. And by God, if that isn't worth protecting then what is ?

 

[techres]

What is frustrating me about this entire discussion is that the federal law this guy was prosecuted under and which the reward was offered under has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with protection our national symbol. In fact, under the Johnson case it legally cannot as Johnson holds that desecration of national symbols is protected political speech.

The Bald Eagle Protection Act is part of Title 16 which is the CONSERVATION title of the U.S. code. Those RAH RAH'ing around this guys prosecution need to realized that his prosecution has nothing to do with his disrespect for this country and everything to do with the EPA/FWS flexing their muscles. I am with you as far as outrage over this guy disrespecting our nation but be aware that that is not why he was prosecuted.

Also, as noted above, offering a 10k reward for a misdemeanor against an animal just doesn't sit well with me. If that reward was being offered because of this guys disrespect to our country I would be on board, but make no mistake about it; that is not why this guy was prosecuted or the reward offered. To put a fine point on it, if this guy were able to show that he was being prosecuted because he had killed the national symbol, his conviction would almost certainly be overturned under Johnson

Joe

This is where I was heading but never got back to. Thank you for saying so well for me.

 

[Indy317]

I think folks put too much stock in these symbols of a country that really no longer exist. Flags are nothing more than symbols used to identify people who you don't shoot in battle. They are used on dwellings/property so someone doesn't use a trevesay on the wrong property. The entire concept that the Bald Eagle and Stars and Stripes stands for what folks here claim it stands for is kinda funny. Here is what the current symbols of the US stand for:
#1: A country where one can go out, have a bunch of off-spring, and get the government to steal from others via taxes to to feed, cloth, and house them.
#2: A country where your right to self-defense with even a common sidearm, say a revolver is completely gone in some areas.
#3: A country where folks have the fruits of their labor taken from them so that certain wealthy individuals can get free, or almost free, workplaces built for their sports teams they own.
#4: A country where some people get extra consideration based upon the color of their skin, their age, their sex organ, their religion, etc..

Here is what this flag and eagle are about to represent in the future:
#1: A country where the government controls your healthcare.
#2: A country where the government controls your ability to own firearms.
#3: A country that decides to take even more of the fruits of your labor and give them to others.
#4: A country that will allow government units to mandate you receive a flu vaccine, and then give everyone involved in this mandate blanket immunity in case you are one of the unlucky ones who gets sick from said shot.

The idea the flag and Bald Eagle represent the same US of A that existed decades ago just isn't something I can agree with. Sure this country is great, but saying that killing an Eagle or burning the is the end of the world is somewhat silly. I may not agree with it personally, but I no longer see those actions as an assault on the ideals total personal freedom, as we haven't had that in a long time.

These symbols are pushed to represent the government, in an effort to make people take pride in their country and government. Governments have a vested interest in this, as government _never_ wants a population that is so sick of government, that an overthrow is imminent. More and more people are getting feed up with government, as we are seeing with the Obama speech. Past presidents did the same thing, as the best time to make folks think government is so great is when they are kids. It doesn't matter the message, the message isn't even important. The most important thing is to get people to still love and support the concept of our government, regardless of what the government is doing. Proclaiming flags and symbols is just a way to pull at a person's heart strings and make them think about "this great land" or "this country of ours" or "what this country was founded upon." It is enough to distract people, as people begin to think about the past and not the present situation. Don't be swayed by these things, they are used as feel good measures to keep the masses in check.

 

[ATM]

It is the connection of these symbols to the historical founding concepts and the people of this nation, not the government, that helps keep me from being "in check."

It is a powerful reminder that the government needs "checked," not the other way around. The symbols have not deteriorated with the administrations as you suggest. Rather, they stand in stark contrast to our eroding freedoms and liberty.

Do not tread on either for they are bigger than the government or popular opinion, which both may need treaded from time to time.

 

[wtfd661]

So your answer Indy 317 to what you feel are the ills of this country (which by the way I do agree with) is to speak out against the Flag and The Bald Eagle. To suggest that they represent the "America of now" vs the "America of then". Well I'm sorry but I don't agree with that, because the examples that you use to describe as how America is now is not what I see as the true America. Yes America is ill, yes America has problems (especially with the dear leader in power), yes America is on the verge of going on life support due to the idiots in charge. But another real danger is your type of thinking, the type to say I give up.

The America that I believe in is represented by the people who also happen to populate this forum. Good, honest, hard working, average hoosiers whom I happen to be proud to call neighbor. The ones who are the majority in this great country and thats why I still am proud to call myself an American, proud to salute the flag, stand up when the National Anthem is played, defend the Bald Eagle, and in general still be awe inspired by these so called symbols.

 

[Jay]

Indy317, that's your opinion...... perhaps you'd feel better expressing it in another country where..... uh oh..... where else could you go and express that? Well if you think of one.... that suits you .... go there. Safe journey.