I was ALMOST robbed today!

[Caleb]

If you seriously think I should wait around and see if makes good on his "I'm gonna put a bullet in your head" or "I'm going to cut you" threats, you got to be kidding yourself. If I get those gut feelings that he's not joking (and nobody should joke about stuff like that), I believe myself to be in danger, and will react accordingly.

 

[ryknoll3]

So I guess the HICKMAN standard of self-defense, since he hasn't come out and said what HE'D do if he were the OP, is to go a couple rounds with the guy with the fists, and if it looks like he might have the upper hand, or he then presents a weapon, you can at that point use deadly force?

 

[Pyriel]

Being posted under handguns, my first thought was you stopped at Don's

Great job op.

This I really clicked here ready to hear the usual Don Davis jokes for some early morning humor.

On a more serious note, it's great that no one was injured, but I have to ask was the guy who you were pointing at standing in front of a fuel pump?

 

[Caleb]

This I really clicked here ready to hear the usual Don Davis jokes for some early morning humor.

On a more serious note, it's great that no one was injured, but I have to ask was the guy who you were pointing at standing in front of a fuel pump?

At this point, it's irrelevant

 

[CindyE]

This whole thread stinks of BS.. you filed a police report and they don't care about this happening to other residents of Logansport?

Mmmkay!

lots of stuff doesn't make it to the Logansport Pharos Tribune paper. don't know who decides that...

 

[Arickosmo]

Nice job OP, or should I say "yob". Only better outcome is the guy dropping on the ground and giving up.

 

[lovemachine]

I'm not going to say that I agree or disagree with how the OP handled this situation.

But I WILL say what I would do if this had happened to me....

I would be seeking out a quality professional Force on Force class. I would want to find out personally, from an expert, that what I did was right on, or was I just lucky.
I want to be ready for when it happens again.

OP, do yourself a favor and seek out that training. Even if you was right or wrong, you're still lucky you got out of it without getting hurt. Next time, you may not be so lucky.

 

[Dirtebiker]

What self-defense / force on force training have you had? Course dates and instructors please.

Your Coastie training doesn't apply to civil law in Indiana no more than my Army training does.

He stated he wasn't in his car...

Dates and instructors??. for what? You don't believe him? It's the Internet man, he can tell you he's taken every self defense course known, would that make a difference? If you want to list your experiences, go ahead! We'll take them with the same grain of salt!

Who cares if he was inside or out of his car? Doesn't make a bit of difference! Op was justified in the way he handled the situation!

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm not going to say that I agree or disagree with how the OP handled this situation.

But I WILL say what I would do if this had happened to me....

I would be seeking out a quality professional Force on Force class. I would want to find out personally, from an "expert," that what I did was right on, or was I just lucky.
I want to be ready for when it happens again.

OP, do yourself a favor and seek out that training. Even if you was right or wrong, you're still lucky you got out of it without getting hurt. Next time, you may not be so lucky.

FIXED...LOL and agreed

 

[the1kidd03]

Dates and instructors??. for what? You don't believe him? It's the Internet man, he can tell you he's taken every self defense course known, would that make a difference? If you want to list your experiences, go ahead! We'll take them with the same grain of salt!

Who cares if he was inside or out of his car? Doesn't make a bit of difference! Op was justified in the way he handled the situation!

in the eyes of the law, it definitely DOES......if he was IN his car and got out he was not immediately threatened because, as the law would see it, there is a barrier between him and the attacker.......had the window been broken, under IC he would have been legally justified is shooting not just displaying

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

He won't give up either.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...97753-you_force_on_force_and_sd_trainers.html

 

[the1kidd03]

There is a LOT of armchair back patting going on which is pointless. It is more useful to discuss the details of the instance and other possibilities of what could have been done, happened, other ramifications, etc,etc. That is called a learning experience. If you wish to get butt hurt when people try to offer points for such discussion because you simply feel the need to be correct in your/his actions then you shouldn't bother posting in an open forum that is dedicated to better educating on proper firearms use.

I believe the point HICKMANN is trying to make is that, YES what you did was justified to you. That doesn't mean it is justified in the eyes of the legal system. I don't care what your area of study is, it doesn't make you an expert, simply a student. The prosecutors would have ripped you a new hole with your actions had there been a scared witness that didn't hear what the robber said, if the officers were being "pushed" to crack down on firearms, if you had to engage, etc,etc. As someone else pointed out, you got lucky here.

You did feel threatened and that is understandable. On the other hand, the legal system and prosecutors will pick apart your actions FAR worse than anyone here is, so where would you rather have your learning experience?

 

[Dirtebiker]

I never said I knew everything. You said earlier that I know nothing, so I responded with the little bit of experience I do have. Apparently wasn't good enough for you.

My telling you to get self-defense or force on force training is not useful or helpful? Please explain?

You said the officer said it was justified? Would you please PM me the info on the card the officer handed you with the case number and his name?

And since you are a criminal justice major, can you explain to me how shooting at an UNarmed person charging at you is justified by law?

Notice I never said that I would not do the same, but I would have a better chance convincing a jury due to disabilities. I don't know how a college aged man could do the same.

You are so defensive right now, you aren't even reading what's being posted unless it says "good job". You apparently put this out here as a learning lesson, YOU should learn something from it too. Don't discount what other people say just because it doesn't totally agree with what you say.

Suggesting he get some training IS useful, but that's about the only part of your posts that were!
As far as you wanting information about the officer, case number, etc., GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!! You don't believe it happened, we get it!!! Why are you so worried about it? believe it or not, not every interaction with the police is reported in the papers or the news! Like the officer told him (if you believe it REALLY happened), this kind of thing happens EVERY DAY!!!!!
A threat does NOT have to have a gun or knife in hand for him to be justified in pointing his weapon!
The fact that he is "college aged" also has nothing to do with it! Now, is it a contest as to who would be able to convince a jury??. many of us here have disabilities.... BOO HOO!
You're right that he is defensive.... Of course he is, with a bunch of armchair quarterbacks making the calls on Monday morning!
I do believe he, along with most of us, is learning from this thread, which is why it's good when we post our experiences!

 

[the1kidd03]

Had that attacker come back once the LEO's arrived, as you have explained the situation, he presented no weapon and thus no immediate threat to do bodily harm. He could have easily said to the officers that you pulled a gun on him for no reason, which would get you in the "sights of the legal system," and they don't like people having guns. Then the actions would TRULY get picked apart and based off the information presented here, you would likely loose your LTCH or even have charges against you. They would simply see: this man had no weapon, you pulled a gun, and pointed it at him which alone is a crime under the IC. At this point it would be all about how well you can convey to the court WHY you felt threatened enough to justify DEADLY force when a man said something to you and presented no weapon. I think that would be a MUCH more uphill battle than engaging in logical conversation here.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not going to say that I agree or disagree with how the OP handled this situation.

But I WILL say what I would do if this had happened to me....

I would be seeking out a quality professional Force on Force class. I would want to find out personally, from an expert, that what I did was right on, or was I just lucky.
I want to be ready for when it happens again.

OP, do yourself a favor and seek out that training. Even if you was right or wrong, you're still lucky you got out of it without getting hurt. Next time, you may not be so lucky.

Why would you wait for something like this to happen BEFORE seeking training?

 

[Dirtebiker]

in the eyes of the law, it definitely DOES......if he was IN his car and got out he was not immediately threatened because, as the law would see it, there is a barrier between him and the attacker.......had the window been broken, under IC he would have been legally justified is shooting not just displaying

I see your point! As long as it was just a verbal threat. Of course, if the guy had a gun in HIS hand, it would be a different situation, right?

 

[mainjet]

IC 35-41-1-11
"Forcible felony"
Sec. 11. "Forcible felony" means a felony that involves the use or threat of force against a human being, or in which there is imminent danger of bodily injury to a human being.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

In Crown Point on New Years Eve. A man was killed on the town square. He was with a group of friends and they got into an argument with one person walking by. The man that died from the group thought, as everyone else did, that he was being punched. He was actually being stabbed. He lived long enough to say "I think I just got stabbed" and he talked to the police but later died.

My point is, are you going to wait until someone "punches" you after they say they are going to hurt you? They came to you and made a statement of threat. It is not your duty to decide if they have the means to carry through on that threat. If their threat put's you in fear for your life then you have to do what is necessary to protect yourself.

What makes you think that you will see it coming? Will you always see the gun that puts one between your eyes? Will you always see the knife that cuts you open before you die? Will you be beaten to death before you have a chance to get to your gun once you realize that the guy or girl punching you IS serious about the threat and they now have you on the ropes?

 

[.45 Dave]

Yes, this is a teaching experience for all of us. However, having second thoughts about pulling a gun in a situation where someone is threatening you can get you killed! I think the OP did exactly the right thing. Quite frankly, if someone is more worried about how the police or legal system is going to respond when or if they have to draw their gun, then maybe they shouldn't have one in the first place. I mean, the OP didn't know if this guy might have had a weapon AND a threat was definitely made!!

I suppose you could just give the thief your money, car, life and you could have it put in your epitaph that, at least, you aren't going to be prosecuted! And then you could also hope that next time this thug robs someone he will MAYBE not hurt or kill another innocent person minding their own business
.
+1 to the OP! You scared the bejeebus out of this guy so that next time maybe he'll think twice about pulling this s**t.

 

[Dirtebiker]

He won't give up either.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...97753-you_force_on_force_and_sd_trainers.html

Some people just can't accept the fact that they are not always right!
Hickman, people here have shown you the I.C., what more do you need?

 

[the1kidd03]

I suggest seeking your answers and/or pats on the back here.



https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/196421-gun_law_seminar_forum_on_may_19_a.html



or better yet here.

Guy A. Relford

The Law Offices of Guy A. Relford

President, TacticalFirearms Training, LLC.

Manager and Chief Range Safety Officer, Eagle Creek PistolRange

Tactical Firearms Training, LLC

Home Page



Guy is our resident firearms law “expert” as the state’sleading 2nd amendment attorney. He offers courses coveringthis exact topic on all of these misconceptions many are presenting here. I think you, as well as many of the postershere would do well to attend it.