I Voted For Obama

[ron]

Reps to Ron for not folding to our local brand of groupthink. One additional question I would like to ask is, what is your current perception of Obama's policies and performance? Are there any areas you do not agree with him?

Probably one of the biggest issues I don't agree with is his gun policy. I feel that he will try to reinstate the AWB but without a sunset provision. That is the most realistic possibility in my mind. I find the serialization of ammo idea laughable, because it just seems so unrealistic. However, I don't think he has enough political goodwill to actually get this bill passed because a lot of the members in the House and Congress realize how volatile and unpopular that decision is.

I don't think that he will attempt that any time soon as he many more important decisions to deal with. He is still trying to figure out what he should do with the economy, he'll eventually try to do something about healthcare reform, maybe something about alternative energy and taxes. On top of that he has 2 wars to deal with, I think (hopefully) he has his hands too full to deal with anything else.


I don't like the fact that he twice broke his promise, that all executive orders, proclamations, and all non-emergency legislation will be posted to the official White House website allowing the public to review and comment for five days before the President signs the legislation.

I wish he closed Guantanamo faster and stopped dancing around the issue.

I don't like the way he's handled the bailout for the banks either but my knowledge on this issue is a little fuzzy since the numbers involved are so dizzying.

 

[Rhys]

Hey guys, I'm sort of a lurker on this forum. Mostly I just read the handguns and ammo section for tips and stuff. Lately, I've been reading the politics threads a lot. I like reading view points that conflict with mine, it gives me some sort of perspective and I like seeing what's happening with the opposite end of the political spectrum. I feel like sometimes the discussions on this section of the forums are sort of one sided, its a lot of preaching to the choir, so I would like to express my more "liberal" opinions and shock you guys.


1. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I think extremists on either side are likely to be terrorists.
I agree, just like any group, a small number can give the rest a very bad name.
2. I'm pro-choice.
I'm anti-government intervention in people's private lives, so I am with you here.
3. I don't think the sky is falling and don't believe that hyperinflation will occur in the near future.
I hope you are right...but the fiscal policies that have been coming out of Washington for the past year or more (this includes Bush as well as Obama) are getting downright scary...
4. I think climate change is happening and that humans share some of the responsibility for that.
I don't disagree with this one, the question is to what extent are humans affecting it vs. natural cycles. The Earth has been both much warmer (with the coinciding higher levels of greenhouse gases) and much colder in the past, long before humans came on the scene. However, we are indisputably dumping tons of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere that have been buried for eons, so we certainly aren't helping any...
5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.
Actually, evolution is probably a BETTER theory than gravity, as there is a known mechanism for evolution, we know pretty well how it works: genetic material in a population will have a random distribution of mutations that with either a) be beneficial, b) be harmful, or c) not affect the chances for the organism to reproduce and pass those genes (and corresponding traits) down, this is what we call natural selection. Gravity, however we feel and can predict its effects, is much more mysterious. We can predict its effects through Newton's laws and/or Einstein's General relativity theory, but we still don't know the actual mechanism by which it works.
6. Let gays marry, why not?
I agree. Not gay, but definitely against discrimination.
7. I don't think Ron Paul is that awesome, yes he has some good ideas but he has just as many wacky ones.
I like Ron Paul and would have voted for him in the general election. I do think that he can be polarizing, and I also don't like that he doesn't "believe" in evolution, but...he also isn't the type to force his views upon others.
8. I don't think there is a liberal bias in the media as much the media is just stupid and irrelevant lately.
I just don't watch the news... I do agree with the statement above about when something agrees with YOUR bias, it is hard to see the bias in that source.
9. I don't think taxation is that horrible.
I agree that we need some level of taxation for infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.), police, firefighters, and military. With the exception of the military though, I don't see why the national government needs to be involved in any manner, and therefore, they don't need to collect taxes for it.
10. I like the idea of "socialized" healthcare.
I like the idea of fair healthcare. I don't want people to be turned away simply because they cannot pay (see Haiti...not good), that said, I also don't think that the government can run the healthcare system any better than private industry can. Part of the problem right now is the tax treatment of insurance coverage and lack of competition across state lines. Currently the premiums that companies pay on an employee's behalf are tax free, and the premium's the the employee pays are paid with pre tax dollars. However, if you try to get insurance coverage outside of that employer/employee relationship, the premiums are paid 100% with post tax dollars. How is that fair? How does that promote price competition? Why can't I have the same options to switch health insurance as I do to switch auto or home insurance if I feel that I am paying too much? Monopolies and oligarchies = bad.

And just so the moderators don't think I'm some sort of liberal troll from outer-space, yes I'm from Indiana. Yes I'm a gun-owner and I love guns of all kinds. I love to go the range when I can. I too am having a hard time finding ammunition. But anyways, here I am.

I like [political] conversations where all sides are intelligent and open. You seem to be that type. Welcome to INGO!

 

[ron]

Wow this thread went fast.

I am enjoying everyones post almost.

One that i would like to say you are wrong on in my opinion is Abortion.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE IT IS MURDER!!!!

If you support Abortion in my opinion you are supporting a huge mass murder.

But America is a great place of freedom of speech, so you can belive what you want and i can believe what I want.

I do respect you for posting your ideas, It took alot of courage ,or a 12 pack to do what you did/ are doing.

It was a spur of the moment thing. I read a few posts right before I posted that made me just want to say what I believed. Besides its too early in the day for a 12 pack for me.

 

[mikea46996]

Hey sorry about not getting back to you guys earlier, I had to run some errands immediately after and I was not expecting such a deluge of responses. I'll try to elaborate further on my earlier ten points.

1. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I think extremists on either side are likely to be terrorists.

Perhaps I misspoke. What I'm trying to say is, there are religious and non-religious groups of all kinds. There have been a lot of people doing bad things in the name of God or justice. Despite that, I still think that we should give the majority of people the benefit of the doubt, even if they belong to a polarizing group.
See we don't have that different of ideas... Again welcome to INGO part of what makes this place great is normally even with different opinions we can get along just don't start an OC vs CC thread...

2. I'm pro-choice.

This will come off as evil, but I really think the world has enough babies. Social services in this country, are understaffed and underfunded. I've heard way too many stories of people working for child protection services not caring about a foster child in a bad home, simply because there just aren't enough resources or that the staff member in charge is just overwhelmed with cases. If someone doesn't want to have a baby, abort it, because there is a good chance that child will be born into an unwelcome home and become a financial liability for the rest of us for some time.
I understand your reasoning and the intellect side of me agrees but the moral side of me can't.

3. I don't think the sky is falling and don't believe that hyperinflation will occur in the near future.

Yea the economy sucks right now. But I do believe it will get better. No I didn't buy any gold. Maybe I should have. Maybe I should have bought stock when the Dow was at 6,000. I don't really believe any economist can predict what will happen in the future and the ones that claim they can should be regarded with some skepticism. That being said, preparing for the worst is a good thing, its part of the reason why I have a gun! I just think that a lot of the tin-foil wearing crowd just aren't really enjoying life and spend way too much time worrying. Enjoy life, buy a dog! Even if the **** does hit the fan, at least you're prepared!
I agree even me MR SHTF has to take a break from it now and again or it wears on me. All I can say is be prepared.

4. I think climate change is happening and that humans share some of the responsibility for that.

Even if humans weren't responsible for climate change or on the level that Al Gore claims, I still think that global warming crowd has some good ideas. The sooner we get off foreign oil and start using alternative energy sources, the better and safer our country will be. Unlike a lot of the tree huggers, I would love to see more nuclear energy in this country. From my personal experience working in and around these plants, it IS to be very safe, incredibly efficient, and cheap. Lastly, even if climate change were not happening and people weren't responsible, we shouldn't get a free ticket to drive 5 mpg Hummers or not recycle. There are cleaner alternatives and we should embrace them because pollution sucks for everyone in the long term.



5. I think evolution is as good of a theory as the theory of gravity.

I didn't really see that many objections to it. I can't really debate what the Bible said since I'm not God, and the Bible is God's word. We should teach this and not intelligent design in schools because its embraced by the scientific community as what's correct.

6. Let gays marry, why not?

Separate but equal never really works out in the end, look at Brown V Board of Education. Separate is inherently unequal. I don't think that gays should be denied the rights that straight couples can have. Besides, the biggest threat to marriage is divorce! Maybe another solution would be to abolish marriage completely and just give everyone civil unions and let churches deal with marriage.
Marriage should be in the eyes of the church and God not the state.

7. I don't think Ron Paul is that awesome, yes he has some good ideas but he has just as many wacky ones.

Ron Paul has some great ideas like a free trade and opposing NAFTA, the fact that he has a very strict interpretation of the Constitution, he voted against the REAL ID act, and I'm sure you guys can think of a lot of others. I don't like the fact that he does not believe in evolution and wants to abolish the Board of Education and has a very isolationistic view of foreign policy. I do believe that sometimes our government should intervene in cases of humanitarian crises or real threats to our national security. I love the fact that he is a third party candidate, has garnered such large attention for his ideas, and is a thorn on the side of both Democrats and Republicans.

8. I don't think there is a liberal bias in the media as much the media is just stupid and irrelevant lately.

The reason why I don't think there is a liberal bias is because there are demagogues on both sides of the media. You have CNN, MSNBC, Keith Olbermann, Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck. Both sides have very powerful and influential talking heads and both of them have a very large following. I hate Rush because he makes fun of people with Parkinsons and is a huge hypocrite and I hate Keith Olbermann because he sounds obnoxious and refuses to use regular words. Both groups are very decisive and instead of focusing on real stories all I hear about is Jon and Kate plus 8 and Susan Boyle.

9. I don't think taxation is that horrible.

Taxes have paid for bad things and good things. I'm glad that taxes have paid for interstate highways, public education, the police and fire department, etc. I'm disappointed that tax money has paid for wars I don't agree with, bailouts I dislike, and the salaries of public servants I disagree with.
Here is were many will disagree even with me. I do agree with the current war, I truly believe if we didn't take it to them it would end up here. Thanks to brave vets all around this country(Thank You Bobby) we can still reasonably safely travel and enjoy life.

10. I like the idea of "socialized" healthcare.

I think the current system in America is horrible. Healthcare costs are too high and all the insurance companies are out there to screw you. Yea Canada's system seems to be OK. Yes you might have to wait a long time for non-essential surgeries, but at least you won't be bankrupt at the end of the procedure. I read a few days ago that health care costs account for close to half of the bankruptcies in America. Screw HMOs and screw the millionaire executives running private insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations.

And just to prove an earlier poster right, I'll say something anti-gun. I can understand why the government won't allow fully automatic weapons and extended capacity magazines. From what I've gathered, if you need more than 10 rounds per magazine, either you're in a war zone or you need to go back to the range and practice. I do fully appreciate the fact that we are unique in our freedoms to own firearms and while me and my pistols might do anything against a government ordered military strike, it does instill some fear with those in power, which is always healthy. I do think the Assault Weapons Ban is stupid because the definition of what constitutes an assault weapon is very arbitrary and stupid. I wouldn't want the government imposing many laws on firearms because that only affects law abiding citizens. A criminal doesn't have to worry about a background check or what constitutes a pre-ban weapon because he'll take whatever he can get from the trunk of his dealer.
The 2nd is not about hunting or sport shooting it is about our right and ability to defend ourselves from a corrupt and abusive government. I prefer to be on a somewhat more level playing field and the high cap mags help.


Lastly, any ideas on how to break in an HK45 full size?

Shoot it.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Shoot it.

Great post and I'm fresh out of rep. The whole post that is.

 

[mikea46996]

Great post and I'm fresh out of rep. The whole post that is.

Thank you sir. If we all can remain calm and reasonable we can see others point of views even if we don't agree with them all. I think many that voted for Obongo and the Democraps were simply frustrated and latched on to all the promises of "Change". If I had hundreds of millions of dollars they would have elected a gun toting, smoking, gas guzzlin Chevy driving, tattooed redneck....

The republicans lost the election the democraps didn't win, if you understand that you are a very intelligent person.

All we can do is be prepared for the worst, if it doesn't happen great!!! If it does at least we are ready. You are prepping aren't you?

 

[Scutter01]

You are prepping aren't you?

I bought an extra pack of Oreos. I don't know if that counts.

 

[Hoosier8]

Ron, it does not matter what you believe as everyone has an opinion. I disagree with most of yours but then again, I am probably much older than you and have held your opinions at one time or another. I have had time to reflect on mine.

What does matter is the title of your post. I did not vote for Obama, even though I did not feel I had much choice, I was sure we would be headed down the path of socialism we are now heading. Now against all of the warnings from other "new citizens" from other countries like those in the UK it is even more apparent. I did not expect the total lack of responsibility concerning the "new" deficit as even Clinton backed off (middle class tax cut) when it was obvious to him he could not do that and pay for whatever else he wanted. As stated, Obama and his ilk are all anti-second amendment (in deed, not in speech). To me, a constitutional scholar that does not understand the constitution, is dangerous. We are heading towards a massively expanding central government, which will definitely move towards more control over you. Don't get me wrong, this is the result of both parties, it is just that this administration is nakedly grabbing more and more power at such a rate as never seen before. More borrowing in the last 6 months than we have done in the last 30 years. 16 new "Czars" that have absolutely no oversight and that answer only to the president and not to the congress or the media. Overturning of 240 years of law with the favoring of political cronies (UAW). More to come.

I would not ask you to defend your opinions, but I would ask you to defend your vote.

 

[Marc]

It was a spur of the moment thing. I read a few posts right before I posted that made me just want to say what I believed. Besides its too early in the day for a 12 pack for me.

now that is down right un American...












ITS NEVER TOO LATE FOR A 12 PACK

 

[mikea46996]

I bought an extra pack of Oreos. I don't know if that counts.

Don't worry there is a place for you and others here with me just make sure you bring those Oreos because I haven't stocked up on them. Besides I would be lost without you amazing sense of wit..

 

[Scutter01]

Don't worry there is a place for you and others here with me just make sure you bring those Oreos because I haven't stocked up on them. Besides I would be lost without you amazing sense of wit..

They're Double-Stuft. Will that get me an extra water ration?

 

[Annie Oakley]

Any time that someone with views that differ from the majority in such a place as this forum who speaks what they believe and tries to explain why, it is a good thing. My opinions on some of these issues are different from the majority as other threads have shown and yet I don't hesitate to debate them. I don't feel like any one here mistreats me for them and all in all I think the bulk of posters do a good job of being civil.

This thread has been interesting but instead of trying to discuss all points of Ron's initial post maybe it should be broken down. Let's all remember to allow others to have their opinions as we want to have ours....so far so good.

 

[Marc]

They're Double-Stuft. Will that get me an extra water ration?

oreos are only good with milk

 

[Fletch]

Reps to Ron for not folding to our local brand of groupthink.

Reps to you for recognizing that this board engages in groupthink.

 

[mikea46996]

They're Double-Stuft. Will that get me an extra water ration?

Hell if they are Double-Stuft I will give you an extra water ration and only require (5) 6 hour security details a week instead of (6).

Your not getting out of wood procurement of crop detail so don't even think about it.


Wow I just realized you did it again!!! Damn Mod thread jacking threads!!! You just do that to keep em cool don't you?

 

[Pami]

Wow I just realized you did it again!!! Damn Mod thread jacking threads!!! You just do that to keep em cool don't you?

Psstt... Scutter... I think he's on to us....

 

[techres]

Reps to Ron for not folding to our local brand of groupthink.

+1. Glad to see some variety around here.

 

[henktermaat]

Reps to you for recognizing that this board engages in groupthink.

I'd say people come here to escape groupthink.

 

[rmcrob]

You could look it up, but this may be the fastest to 100 non-bacon post thread in INGO history.

 

[mikea46996]

Post 100!!!!!!!!!

Ok now that I posted I can go back and edit later.