"I shot her twice, she best be dead"

[HeadlessRoland]

Play stupid games: win stupid prizes!

 

[IndyDave1776]

I still see two separate discussions going on, specifically how it is and how it should be. I would venture to say, once again, that when this man was a relatively young adult the wagon would have been sent over and the decedent put in refrigeration, and that would have been the end of it. Crime was not nearly so bad then. One wonders why.

 

[ModernGunner]

Due to the wording of the article, it's inconclusive whether Greer shot the woman after Greer chased her into the alley, or whether Greer shot her, then pursued her into the alley. There's two opposing ways to read it.

Likewise, the article states, "The intruders threw Greer to the ground, but they didn't know he'd gotten his .22-caliber Smith and Wesson revolver." Yet, it provides no information as to when and where Greer obtained the handgun. How did Greer get a gun AFTER being thrown to the ground? Floor safe?

We'll have to wait and see if this progresses any further, but as poorly written as the article is, there's simply no way to legitimately claim 'murder'.

Further, the law should probably be changed / re-worded to state that, once engaged in a defensive scenario, that defense can / should continue until the threat is neutralized. Words to that effect.

Engaging after / during an attack, there shouldn't necessarily be a 'requirement' by the defender to 'disengage' simply because the criminal is retreating. That simply gives a 'win' to the criminal and provides the criminal an opportunity to either 'circle back' to re-engage, attack again at another time, or move on and attack other victims, perhaps with better 'success' for the criminal.

The two scumbags CHOSE to engage Greer in multiple felonies. It should not be incumbent upon Greer, the defender, to cease his engaged defense until that defense is completed, when the attackers are incapacitated.

That's what 'shoot to stop' means.

 

[gungirl65]

Personally I think if charges are filed the old guy should claim he had a senior moment. He had momentary dementia or just got caught up in the heat of the moment. With a good attorney he should pass naturally before the case ever goes to trial.

I quit feeling sorry for parasites years ago. They probably picked the old man because they thought he was easy prey. It's hard to feel sorry for anyone who willingly attacks an 80 year old man.

 

[88GT]

Assuming the perp had genuinely abandoned the act and wasn't simply going to his car, e.g. for a tire iron.

Either way, perp disengaged. Giving chase necessarily negates perp as an immediate and imminent threat. And creating a new self defense situation because one followed and continued to engage the perp isn't really self defense.

 

[X piller X]

Sad story if she was pregnant, but on the other hand, she put herself in the predicament.

Then comes the question, he claims he was defending himself, but he shot them as they were running.

sure they had it coming, and he responded accordingly, could have been better had she survived to suffer the consequences..

the best part was though, 2 shots with a .22 killed her.


and lastly, i agree that something needs to change. Say an attacker is beating you within inches of death, you reach your firearm and at that point the attacker disengages and gives up the attack. he had every intention to kill you from the start, but gave up when he knew he was outmatched. This does not mean he will not come back at a later time to finish the task. but how heck can you let a man who is willing to kill you, walk away.

 

[CathyInBlue]

He'll be charged with Murder 1 by Monday afternoon.

Personally, if you're attacked in your own home, your attackers have abdicated any semblance of claims to self-defense, or legitimate defense of any kind. You should be able to pursue your attackers from your home and execute measures to insure against future attacks to the ends of the Earth, provided, you never lose sight of your attackers, thus insuring that you're getting the right scumbags and not just some innocent around a corner that happened to be dressed similarly.

Of course, this runs counter to Indiana law, which dictates that the instant it registers in your mind that your attacker has disengaged and communicated his intention to cease any offensive measures, you lose any justification for using lethal force at that point, and rightfully so.

 

[88GT]

He'll be charged with Murder 1 by Monday afternoon.

In Cali, for sure. Apparently Indiana doesn't mind if someone gives chase to continue to subdue the threat.

 

[JetGirl]

The scumbag robbers had been there before. And before that. And likely would be returning... And since they BOTH (even the pregnant one) TACKLED him and started beating him... I have no doubt they'd be back again and with weapons or friends to help them.
In fact, since he said he keeps multiple thousands of dollars in the safe and now that scumbag's scumbaggy booty call is dead, I'm 100% certain scumbag will retaliate... and I hope that old dude is loaded for bear and watchful. Because scumbag will kill him before taking everything the old dude _WORKED for_ throughout his life. I think he knew they'd be back over and over and over...and this beating wouldn't be the last. Or the worst. I chose "self defense".

 

[DemolitionMan]

It was self defense until he opened his pie hole.

I chose "not self defense" because I believe that's how it will play out in court. In the real world, this was clearly self defense because as others have pointed out this guy will be attacked again unless something is done to forcefully discourage the idiots.

 

[Hardscrable]

I agree with Gungirl65... I gave up feeling sorry for parasites & scumbags years ago; he was seen as easy prey; and any one picking on an 80 year old deserves no sympathy. Last fall an elderly couple living a couple miles from me was attacked during a home invasion. He is early 80's & she is 70's...retired business owner, very nice home, & great people. He was beaten with a tire iron- skull fracture, 3 fractured vertebra in neck, & multiple other injuries. Attempted to rape her by one perp - as she was begging no & crying the other attacker convinced that one to stop. They stole firearms, cash , & electronics. They were captured in couple days. Turns out the two had been to a garage sale the couple recently had & were recognized as they had engaged the couple in conversation. The pair was a father ( early 40's) & son (20's) both with lengthy records. The father pleaded guilty to reduced charges & was still sentenced to over 100 years. The son pleaded not guilty at first but has now changed to guilty and is awaiting sentencing. If the father & son had not been captured IMHO they would have undoubtedly continued with future crimes. Had one of the elderly gave chase and shot/killed one of the criminals outside of the house legally it would not be self defense HOWEVER I would certainly not shed a tear over the "loss". As it is, tax payers will spend a fortune warehousing these two criminals for decades . Hopefully they will NEVER walk the streets again .

 

[AndersonIN]

Of course, this runs counter to Indiana law, which dictates that the instant it registers in your mind that your attacker has disengaged and communicated his intention to cease any offensive measures, you lose any justification for using lethal force at that point, and rightfully so.

Unless you're retired IMPD chasing people into parking lots!

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

They broke in and attacked him, so technically it's self defense in the house.
Wher he failed was following them out into the alley. Then it becomes murder.

Jgreiner said pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

 

[PistolBob]

I would not have shot her again. I would have called the Po Po.

Now with that said...these two clowns attacked a 80 year old man and tried to steal from him and physically assaulted him. Somewhere near that point they became morally and legally, acceptable potential bullet holders. I would have tried to shoot them both to keep them from killing me and taking my property.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

No longer an imminent threat. Bad shoot.

 

[Pyriel]

I was doing some reading into the California codes and found this.

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his

or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably

necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/bodily

injury/<insert forcible and atrocious crime>

) has passed.
This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]

http://www.courts.ca.gov/partners/documents/calcrim_juryins.pdf#page=295

 

[IndyDave1776]

I was doing some reading into the California codes and found this.

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his

or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably

necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/bodily

injury/<insert forcible and atrocious crime>

) has passed.
This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]

http://www.courts.ca.gov/partners/documents/calcrim_juryins.pdf#page=295

That would seem to support the argument of pressing home the counteroffensive in order to prevent the perps from regrouping for a new attack.

 

[ThatOneKid]

Personally, If I were in his shoes, I can't say I would have done anything different in the heat of the moment. (minus the shooting her again, I would have called the police) Especially if I was 80 and was tackled in my own home.

 

[grogie]

The reporter just wanted a story, and the old guy unfortunately gave him one. I could imagine how depressing it would be if my neighborhood went to hell and I had to have bars on the windows to try and keep the parasites out. I wish him well.

 

[ViperJock]

I doubt if most smash and grab thieves would circle back on a homeowner they know to be armed with a firearm. I'm sure there may be some but they'd have to be very high or very confident to risk it at that point. They'll find an easier, less risky, mark. This was a revenge killing once the perps left his home. Also, his own words make him sound guilty as hell.