"I shot her twice, she best be dead"

[ViperJock]

Turns out her dying words were just another lie. She was not pregnant. Autopsy shows burglary suspect shot by 80-year-old homeowner wasn't pregnant despite plea | Fox News

You wouldn't tell a white lie if you thought it would prevent you from being murdered? Or are you saying that is was ok to murder her because she was not pregnant?

 

[AA&E]

I say it was not self defence if he chased them into the alley. It seems like he shot her as she was running away, she was down, he walked up and she pleaded for her life, and he murdered her.

I doubt any charges will be filed.

I agree for the most part, but he was 80 years old, had taken an ass beating and felt like they were the same people that had robbed him before. How far can a beat up 80 year old chase someone? And at what point does perceived threat cary over to the next time they come around they might beat him to death. I won't shed a tear for the dead, sucks an unborn child had to get caught up in it all though.

 

[Joniki]

I agree for the most part, but he was 80 years old, had taken an ass beating and felt like they were the same people that had robbed him before. How far can a beat up 80 year old chase someone? And at what point does perceived threat cary over to the next time they come around they might beat him to death. I won't shed a tear for the dead, sucks an unborn child had to get caught up in it all though.

There was no child involved.

I am thinking this old guy saved a lot of people some grief down the road.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

80 years old, robbed before, dark, broken collar bone while getting stomped and pounded, adrenalin rushing, not sure if he's going to live or die, secures his .22 revolver, re-engages, fires, fires again, gives chase with broken bone and perhaps shock, did they say they were leaving? dunno...are they circling me...dunno, ...are there more of them?! I don't know...if I stand here and guard her and try to call the police she may kill me or someone who knows where I am may kill me..

Ever hear of the fog of war?

Ever been robbed multiple times, 80 years old, stomped until you have broken bones, and fought for your life? Me neither.

I wouldn't have shot anyone pleeding for their life, but I'm not him, wasn't there, don't know all the facts, have never tried to defend my life with a .22.

 

[ViperJock]

80 years old, robbed before, dark, broken collar bone while getting stomped and pounded, adrenalin rushing, not sure if he's going to live or die, secures his .22 revolver, re-engages, fires, fires again, gives chase with broken bone and perhaps shock, did they say they were leaving? dunno...are they circling me...dunno, ...are there more of them?! I don't know...if I stand here and guard her and try to call the police she may kill me or someone who knows where I am may kill me..

Ever hear of the fog of war?

Ever been robbed multiple times, 80 years old, stomped until you have broken bones, and fought for your life? Me neither.

I wouldn't have shot anyone pleeding for their life, but I'm not him, wasn't there, don't know all the facts, have never tried to defend my life with a .22.

The he problem with the "fog of war" theory is not that I don't buy it in general. The problem, specific to this case is that the guy admits that he no longer considered them a threat. And he shot her again. The rest of the argument becomes moot at this point. Unless this went down differently than the guy himself explains it, I can't see how what he did is legal. I don't see how he can justify it morally either. That doesn't mean the deceased deserved anything better--it's not about her anymore.

This guy is basically a vigilante at the point he decided the threat was over but he wasn't gonna let her get away with what she had done. I'm pretty sure there isn't a state in the union that carries the death penalty for B&E with some A&B thrown in.

He he should have gone back inside, kept a wary eye, and waited for the police. Or gone to a neighbors house if he didn't feel safe. Circling back after they knew he had a gun and she'd been shot? Knowing the cops were on their way? Only in the movies. IMO he is more likely to get killed in his sleep by the guy who got away for killing his crack ho than he was by letting her live.

 

[88GT]

The he problem with the "fog of war" theory is not that I don't buy it in general. The problem, specific to this case is that the guy admits that he no longer considered them a threat. And he shot her again. The rest of the argument becomes moot at this point. Unless this went down differently than the guy himself explains it, I can't see how what he did is legal. I don't see how he can justify it morally either. That doesn't mean the deceased deserved anything better--it's not about her anymore.

This guy is basically a vigilante at the point he decided the threat was over but he wasn't gonna let her get away with what she had done. I'm pretty sure there isn't a state in the union that carries the death penalty for B&E with some A&B thrown in.

He he should have gone back inside, kept a wary eye, and waited for the police. Or gone to a neighbors house if he didn't feel safe. Circling back after they knew he had a gun and she'd been shot? Knowing the cops were on their way? Only in the movies. IMO he is more likely to get killed in his sleep by the guy who got away for killing his crack ho than he was by letting her live.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Vigilante justice has a bad rap, but historically, it operated very fairly.

I think the shoot is easily justified on the moral standard.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

The he problem with the "fog of war" theory is not that I don't buy it in general. The problem, specific to this case is that the guy admits that he no longer considered them a threat. And he shot her again. The rest of the argument becomes moot at this point. Unless this went down differently than the guy himself explains it, I can't see how what he did is legal. I don't see how he can justify it morally either. That doesn't mean the deceased deserved anything better--it's not about her anymore.

This guy is basically a vigilante at the point he decided the threat was over but he wasn't gonna let her get away with what she had done. I'm pretty sure there isn't a state in the union that carries the death penalty for B&E with some A&B thrown in.

He he should have gone back inside, kept a wary eye, and waited for the police. Or gone to a neighbors house if he didn't feel safe. Circling back after they knew he had a gun and she'd been shot? Knowing the cops were on their way? Only in the movies. IMO he is more likely to get killed in his sleep by the guy who got away for killing his crack ho than he was by letting her live.

...and you base all of your opinion on words on paper, supposedly direct quotes - no voice inflection, no uncertainty, assuming there are no parts left out, also assuming this man isn't re-inventing the story as he see's fit to somehow save himself...

No, I stand by my comment - wasn't there, don't have all the facts, don't believe everything I read as the authority on the situation, and have experienced the uncertainty/fog of extreme situations. I - personally - if everything they say is true and that situation is the real situation - would not have shot her again either. I would have stood my ground right there and made sure she didn't get away or attack me again. But that's me. Limited information conjecture.

 

[CathyInBlue]

He'll be charged with Murder 1 by Monday afternoon.

It's almost afternoon. Any charges yet?

 

[Thor]

... don't believe everything I read as the authority on the situation, and have experienced the uncertainty/fog of extreme situations.

Yup, was OJ guilty? Don't know, there were 12 people who listened to the whole case, arguments from both sides and direction from the judge. They had to make that call; everyone one else just has their opinion.

Circling back after they knew he had a gun and she'd been shot? Knowing the cops were on their way? Only in the movies.

If they were rational actors maybe so, unfortunately we must assume that todays drugged up thugs have the rationality of the last stages of rabies. Maybe they'll run away, maybe they just want to get in arms reach so they can eat your face.

 

[Thor]

It's almost afternoon. Any charges yet?

Accomplice the girl was with has been caught and charged with murder.

From post #64.

 

[ViperJock]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Vigilante justice has a bad rap, but historically, it operated very fairly.

I think the shoot is easily justified on the moral standard.

Ok, I'll allow for different moral standards but my reference to vigilante justice was more of a legal vs illegal situation not whether or not I think the world is now a better place....

imo he did what he thought was best, but we are ruled by law and he was on the wrong side of that line. I'm not a fan of anarchy.

 

[VN Vet]

Turns out she was not pregnant. They had robbed him twice before. Had the old man been hit or beat buy the perps? Was she going to get a gun and come back to kill him? Lots of ifs and facts that yet need to be known. With what is known, I don't think there would be a Jury that would convict the old man. My Opinion.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Turns out she was not pregnant. They had robbed him twice before. Had the old man been hit or beat buy the perps? Was she going to get a gun and come back to kill him? Lots of ifs and facts that yet need to be known. With what is known, I don't think there would be a Jury that would convict the old man. My Opinion.

For my money, 80 years old, beaten hard enough to break his collar bone, dark, add everything else not written, yeah I can see him shooting her again. I don't think they're quoting everything he said either because it doesn't fit the story they want. My opinion.

Some day I'll tell you about a friend of mine, his brother was in the movie theatre in Denver, his arm bone was shattered, but it saved his life. You won't know his story because no one published his story. He was interviewed plenty, but no one published any of it (far as I know). Why? Because he has the wrong opinion.

 

[level0]

You wouldn't tell a white lie if you thought it would prevent you from being murdered? Or are you saying that is was ok to murder her because she was not pregnant?

Just noting she lied, and I don't agree she was murdered.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Turns out she was not pregnant. They had robbed him twice before. Had the old man been hit or beat buy the perps? Was she going to get a gun and come back to kill him? Lots of ifs and facts that yet need to be known. With what is known, I don't think there would be a Jury that would convict the old man. My Opinion.

I agree. This reminds me of a story I saw once where a jewelry store owner shot and killed a man who tried to rob his store at gunpoint. In an interview, the news man asked him why he didn't just give the robber what he wanted and let him leave. "He probably would have just taken what he wanted and left without any trouble, but by pulling out your own gun, you put yourself in more danger" the news man said. The store owner replied "Yes, but that would mean the choice to kill me or not was his, and I choose not to give him that choice".

I've always remembered those words and that's what being armed means to me. I prefer to be in a position where I have more choices than to allow any criminal to decide whether me or my family comes to harm.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

..."Yes, but that would mean the choice to kill me or not was his, and I choose not to give him that choice"...

And there it is. Can't get any clearer than that.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Accomplice the girl was with has been caught and charged with murder.

From post #64.

I kinda was referring to the homeowner.

Turns out she was not pregnant. They had robbed him twice before. Had the old man been hit or beat buy the perps? Was she going to get a gun and come back to kill him? Lots of ifs and facts that yet need to be known. With what is known, I don't think there would be a Jury that would convict the old man. My Opinion.

Ooooo! This is a new bit o' news. I'd heard that he'd been robbed before, but not that he'd been robbed by these same two robbers before. Was there any way for him to know that it was the same pair of robbers who had victimized him before? If so, that ups the ante for self-defense by a mile.

If person(s) X robs, beats, and flees from you once, you can't go vigilante, chase them down, and execute them.

If person(s) X robs, beats, and flees from you twice, you can't go vigilante, chase them down, and execute them.

If person(s) X robs, beats, and flees from you a third time, this is getting to be monotonous. Deadly and monotonous. It's time for something to give, and if I were on that jury, that something which has to yield is the law against chasing them down and executing them.

 

[actaeon277]

Update.
Apparently, he was "boasting".
Forensics say it was self defense.
CA Man Who Shot & Killed ?Pregnant? Home Invader Apparently Lied to the Media

 

[Kutnupe14]

Update.
Apparently, he was "boasting".
Forensics say it was self defense.
CA Man Who Shot & Killed ?Pregnant? Home Invader Apparently Lied to the Media

That guy is an idiot. His words almost cooked his goose. In light of the new evidence, he's justified. I would've called it murder if it unfolded as he first told it (unless he was in Texas).

 

[indykid]

The guy is lucky he got a prosecutor who believed in truth over hype.