I drew my weapon, was it the right thing to do

[Tommy2Tone]

One other thing to ask, how many of you would have taken the tactical opportunity to go back in the store if it was closer than the car? Not saying it was, but if it had been, how many would have sucked up their pride and gone back in to call for an LEO or talk to the clerk?

When i ran through this in my head that never crossed my mind. It may have actually been the safest and best thing to do. I don't think it crossed my mind because when i carry a gun i feel like i can protect myself and i really stand by the line "does not have the duty to retreat"

 

[HICKMAN]

So let me get this right, You exit a store and three males approach you and/or your vehicle and you draw a weapon and point it? WOW!! Yes you did wrong. Matter of fact you broke the law and committed a crime based on the way you described the incident. Unbelievable!! In fear of serious bodily injury or death by a group of guys walking towards you is a stretch IMO. You might want to brush up on state law before you find yourself is some legal jeopardy.

But it would NOT be your opinion that counts.... sure you could charge him with brandishing... but in his own car feeling threatened by 3 individuals surrounding his car?

No judge or jury would uphold that charge.

 

[don't_tread_on_me]

If I were in the same situation I would have done the same thing. I would be very interested in hearing a LEO's point of view on this situation. I'm guessing if they were off duty and found themselves in this same scenario the outcome would be similar.

 

[pig957]

WWACD in this sitaution?

(What Would a Cop Do?)

Three unknowns come from behind a dumpster and rush a cop at his car as he enters, one at the driver's door two on the passenger side.

Go.

As a former Marion County Sheriff's Deputy, (If I was off-duty, in street clothes, driving my POV) I would have exited my vehicle and ordered all three men on the ground at gun point, called for backup and (with backup present) checked the ID and intentions of these gentlemen. I see no wrong by the op in this situation.

 

[Crimson]

What is interesting on the maybe going back to the store thing is, if the 3 men only had a directions question or a time question, why didnt they just go into the store? I know that I would ask a store clerk about directions more than someone just walking on the street. And most stores have a clock inside, so maybe it wasnt a time question.

To answer techres's question, it all depends how far from the store I was and how close the car was. And I wouldnt consider it a sucking up of pride to go into the store and call 911. Heck, in columbus, and I dont know about anywhere else, they expect you to call 911 if you see someone driving erractically or drunk. So calling 911 isnt a problem with me.

 

[Boilers]

Well two years ago after seeing the blindingly obvious, I decided to start listening to spanish language instructional audio programs. Never have had a class at all. But I can understand a good deal of Univision and 107.1 FM. I want to break down the language barrier for situations like these. Mainly for ME to understand what they are saying AMONGST THEM(selves). But also for me to converse or give commands as well.

Okay, that is ME and many have no desire to do this, as I can understand. (My 5 semesters of Russian are not put to any use in Central Indiana )

But if I visualize this situation I would at least have my hand on my gun. I often do, being that I pocket carry. And I would have been nervous and felt threatened, too. Draw? I cannot say. I would have needed to be there. But I am in such shape right now that I could not defend myself with my hands and arms. So, letting ANYTHING get physical with me is a risk I would try and avoid, including drawing.

You are ALIVE ... so you met your first GOAL. Be grateful you are blessed in that regard. Now, live each day just as successfully as that one.

 

[wag1911]

So let me get this right, You exit a store and three males approach you and/or your vehicle and you draw a weapon and point it? WOW!! Yes you did wrong. Matter of fact you broke the law and committed a crime based on the way you described the incident. Unbelievable!! In fear of serious bodily injury or death by a group of guys walking towards you is a stretch IMO. You might want to brush up on state law before you find yourself is some legal jeopardy.

IMO, this is the reason that many gun owners do not completely trust the police even though they should be 'natural friends.' If you report an incident and end up having to fight the law yourself, I can virtually guarantee you'll have a citizen who won't bother to report anything again. The time would be better spent on finding the 3 men in the area who initiated the contact and having chubbs try to help identify them.

Don't get me wrong here, this is not a bash as I have both family and friends that are/were LEOs and have the utmost respect for what they do. It's just the reality.

I would have reported the incident initially as I stated in a previous post, but after j706's post, I'm starting to reconsider that.

The problem with not reporting it is that these guys WILL pull the same stunt again and someone without the ability to protect themselves will end up on the news.

We're kind of making a leap in assumption that j706 is a LEO, however.

 

[jennybird]

I went to a differnt liquor store than usual, bad idea. After buying my case of beer and talking the usual talk with the guy behind the counter i headed out the door. As i came out to head to the jeep two mexicans came out from the north of me from behind a dumpster. One yelled Hey, and followed that by something i didn't understand. I just kept walking east to my jeep(about 20 yards), at that time i hear that voice in my head and look behind me to see another mexican coming from the south side of the building which is not lit well. He's moving in fast, so i put a little spring in my step to get to the jeep before them(i'm bad about not locking my doors and leaving the windows down) and get in. As i'm getting in i draw my 9mm from my iwb holster. Keys were in same side pocket, so know i'm seating here for a split second thinking how am i going to get them with out putting the gun down. Didin't matter much because the solo mexican is at my door mumbling broken english or spanish. He's two buddies are at the passenger side fender. He puts his hands on the edge of my door and so i show him whats in my right hand by holding it parallel to my chest pointing it at him. He's still babbling as i tell him ( wish i would of said something intelligent) to back the f up. He starts back peddling saying wrong you, wrong you. His buddys follow him quickly around the building and out of sight. i hit the road a bit shaken. So my question is, did i do the right thing. He never really threatened me, but i sure felt threatened. 3 on 1 sucks even if i'm a big guy and they were 130 ponds soaken wet.

What you/we all can learn from this situation:

1. Most others here would have felt threatened and would have most likely drawn their weapons as well. Great job!

2. Keep your weapon AND your keys within easy reach at all times. It is essential to always be thinking 2 steps ahead. Something for us all to think about: if I'm right handed (hold my weapon in my right hand) what is the best way for me to access/carry my keys which may be needed for escape purposes? (Can you start your vehicle with your left hand?)

3. Are situations like these worth making a phone call to the police about? Or at least call the liquor store and let the employees know what happened so they can make the choice as to whether or not to call the police themselves. We are "shepherds" are we not?

4. A "threat" does not have to be verbal.

5. Think about rolling your windows up and locking the vehicle before going into a liquor store.

These are just some of the things that came to my mind when reading your story. I appreciate you sharing... it's made me think about a few things that I might not have otherwise. I think you did a great job. You felt threatened and did what you felt you needed to in order to protect yourself. Kudos!

 

[Boilers]

add to the list perhaps having a way to verify your side of the story, dead or alive.

A pen cam or in-car (helmet) cam that can record the goings on. That would be helpful if THEY call the police first, as well as if you go missing, perhaps.

(google pen cam, and oregon scientific helmet cam)

Either less than $90.

I will be getting something soon along these lines.

 

[chubbs]

I appreciate all the replys, i feel i did what was right. But i was unsure and didn't report anything. I wasn't completely sure how they would look at me, good guy or bad? Either way i'm sold on carrying whenever legal.

 

[SMiller]

I would have probally done the same, but possible went back into the liquor store. And would have called 911 before I ever left. If I was worried they would come at me again or shoot me I would have left and called the cops. Sounds like you did well, you need to call the cops and hope that they stop these guys before they put a knife through someones chest!

 

[kyle1058]

I agree with most on here. In the same situation I would have my CCW in hand. The only thing I am not to sure of it the pointing it at them. I had a situational a few years ago when I was at an ATM where a car pulled up behind me turn on the brights then I heard to doors open. I could not see anything with the brights in my mirror so I just pulled my weapon and lifted it. I heard 2 doors slam and burning rubber.

The idea that one can defend them selfs scares the crap out of most criminal even if they are armed.

Glad your here to tell the story Chubbs

I'll agree... most even if they are armed, don't wanna mess with someone that is also armed. It's even better when you conceal and have the element of surprise. Once you even uncover your shirt to reveal you are concealed I believe most would back off, but I don't want to go full OC because then it allows the bad guy to know you are carrying and come up behind you or have a buddy come up behind you... My personal preference, really.

 

[rmcrob]

I appreciate all the replys, i feel i did what was right. But i was unsure and didn't report anything. I wasn't completely sure how they would look at me, good guy or bad? Either way i'm sold on carrying whenever legal.

Plus, it took a certain amount of intestinal fortitude to post your experience here. For that, we thank you. It has certainly made me think a lot today. It is one thing to read about stuff like this in some magazine; it is an entirely different thing when it happens to one of your 5000 friends on INGO.

 

[antsi]

i really stand by the line "does not have the duty to retreat"

This is where I begin to disagree.

I am glad the law says there is no duty to retreat - that's the way the law should be. There are many situations where retreating is not a viable option - such as, I am not going to retreat from my home and abandon my kids tto the mercy of home invaders.

However, there are many situations where I do believe that retreating is the most sensible option. If I am presented with such a situation, I am not too proud or too macho to avoid a confrontation if possible. In OPs situation, if I can avoid getting into a shoot out by stepping back into the store, without having to abandon my kid or desert some other pressing obligation, then I'm going to do it.

Even in a completely justified self defense shooting, I am likely to have post incident stress reactions, a real possibility of expensive legal troubles, and who knows if one of the three guys might also have a gun and I get shot too.

For these reasons, I'm not going to get in to a shootout if I can avoid it.

I'm glad the "no duty to retreat" law is in place, but I still will consider whether retreat may be my best option in some confrontations.

 

[ATM]

I'll agree... most even if they are armed, don't wanna mess with someone that is also armed. It's even better when you conceal and have the element of surprise. Once you even uncover your shirt to reveal you are concealed I believe most would back off, but I don't want to go full OC because then it allows the bad guy to know you are carrying and come up behind you or have a buddy come up behind you... My personal preference, really.

Does not compute, but willing to discuss in this other thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

 

[elaw555]

OP, you did good.

 

[agentl074]

Well, looking back at the post and not knowing the perceived situation... I don't know the body language or other vital factors involved.

 

[agentl074]

This is where I begin to disagree.

I am glad the law says there is no duty to retreat - that's the way the law should be. There are many situations where retreating is not a viable option - such as, I am not going to retreat from my home and abandon my kids to the mercy of home invaders.

However, there are many situations where I do believe that retreating is the most sensible option. If I am presented with such a situation, I am not too proud or too macho to avoid a confrontation if possible. In OPs situation, if I can avoid getting into a shoot out by stepping back into the store, without having to abandon my kid or desert some other pressing obligation, then I'm going to do it.

Even in a completely justified self defense shooting, I am likely to have post incident stress reactions, a real possibility of expensive legal troubles, and who knows if one of the three guys might also have a gun and I get shot too.

For these reasons, I'm not going to get in to a shootout if I can avoid it.

I'm glad the "no duty to retreat" law is in place, but I still will consider whether retreat may be my best option in some confrontations.

I don't think any of us would want to get into a hot incident if we can avoid it. However, we should be prepared by utilizing situational awareness and a reactionary gap for a perceived threat Remember that force must be reasonable and commensurate to the threat.

 

[Passive101]

IWB is hard to get out when you are sitting in a vehicle. Heck even OWB isn't easy all the time.

Definitely contact local LE and make a report.

ETA. Always have your windows rolled up

 

[ocsdor]

To the OP, once their hands entered your car without permission, you were right to draw and point. And, if they continued their attack on you in your vehicle, you would be justified in shooting them.

Whether or not to contact the police is a tough call. You would be admitting to Intimidation with a Deadly Weapon, and it would be your defense in court your claim of being under threat of attack.

*Disclaimer: Just my opinion as a citizen who has studied law on an amateur level. Contact a lawyer for legal advice.*