I drew my weapon, was it the right thing to do

[Tommy2Tone]

A decent video on this kind of thing...

YouTube - Tactic-Techniques, Defensive Shooting

 

[fishgun]

Would have done the same. At the time he placed a hand on your vehicle, they invaded your space.

 

[hookedonjeep]

You definately did the right thing by pulling. You've got three unknown, possibly hostile persons approaching your position at an elevated pace (having come from behind a dumpster); surrounding said position, and trying to carry on a conversation with you? Sorry, but the way you described the scene sure sounds like an ambush tactic to me, IMHO. Three against one sucks, and the easiest way to attack a larger target is to surround it, to box it in. His two buddies were probably on the fence about what way it was going to go down, hence their positioning. Doubt it? Look at how wolves hunt..... The alpha male makes initial contact with the target, and his subordinates follow his lead (attack or retreat).
Also, if you are anything like me, it wouldn't matter if the hostiles are white, black, mexican, chinese, etc, etc, etc...... three on one is still three on one regardless of race. Stupid people come in all colors.
+1 Repped.

 

[bigus_D]

First, I'll say that I would have probably drawn in similar circumstances.

I've 'prepaired to draw' in my car before. Approaching 38th and college in Indianapolis, I noticed a man 'acting strangly' give me a look as I rolled into the line of cars at a red light. When he started walking my way, I unconvered and released the retention strap on my holster keeping one hand on the wheel and one had on my gun. If this guy had approached I'd have shown my gun to him without pointing it at him (his next move would have dictacted my next move). I assume all of these actions would be perfectly legal and would definitely do the same in similar circumstances again. If I had windows down and a group of three approaching 'out of the shaddows', perhaps I'd have been more agressive and pointed it directly at the guy closest to me.

I find the following interesting about this thread. Typically I see responses to scenario questions that read closer to, "there is no difference between breaking leather and shooting." I understand where these comments are comming from, but in the example provided in the OP, there clearly is a difference. If the OP had just gone ahead and shot the dude at his window, thrown the jeep in gear, slammed the gas peddle down, run over the curb and then called the cops from a safe area, I believe he would have a hell of a battle in court. So, if you prescribe to the "no difference" arguement, you must believe that the OP was either wrong in drawing or would have been justified in shooting.

I, for one, do not prescribe to this arguement...

 

[concrete dog]

to the op you did exactly what i and sounds like everyone else would have done in that situation.maybe calling the police afterwards would have been a good idea,but other than that you handled it like it needed to be handled.to the two (no names added) posters who thought he did wrong,stop and think about what he said and then think what if.the what if is if it had went bad and you where not ready for it,well your family may be sad.i dont live in the biggest nor the smallest town but in these tough times CRIME IS REAL

 

[JetGirl]

A decent video on this kind of thing...

YouTube - Tactic-Techniques, Defensive Shooting

Reps for an AWESOME video detailing "situational awareness".

 

[techres]

So let me get this right, You exit a store and three males approach you and/or your vehicle and you draw a weapon and point it? WOW!! Yes you did wrong. Matter of fact you broke the law and committed a crime based on the way you described the incident. Unbelievable!! In fear of serious bodily injury or death by a group of guys walking towards you is a stretch IMO. You might want to brush up on state law before you find yourself is some legal jeopardy.

First of all, thanks for letting us know your read of the situation and legality of action as an LEO. It is very helpful for us to get that read and understand it so we can consider what to learn from it.

I take it the law broken in your eyes is intimidation, threatening, or brandishing? And the reason for it is that he was not yet in imminent danger and the threat had not ID'd itself or made an actual threatening claim, right?

Now, before this turns into an ad for Shay and his Force on Force classes (or training in general), I do agree that we as a group do not have enough training to be able to handle a threat once it has fully executed it's attack. As such, we need to act, or feel the need to act, while we still have time to do so to shut down the attack and save ourselves.

As such, I still cannot see any legal fail in the draw of the firearm, period. I assume the problem is in the presentation/aim at the threat. Am I correct?

Would you see the same legal problem with him drawing, not pointing, and ordering the person to go away? Or must he wait for the person to close fully, and make their attack before he can legally begin to defend himself? If so, is a defense against multiple attackers even possible for a senior citizen (for instance)?

I still stand by my read of the situation and say he acted wisely and saved his own butt and that I would have done the same. At the same time, if you can offer a better course of action that would have generated the same result, and left the OP in a better legal situation (in your eyes), please share it so that we can all learn.

Thanks!

 

[Robert Richardson]

So let me get this right, You exit a store and three males approach you and/or your vehicle and you draw a weapon and point it? WOW!! Yes you did wrong. Matter of fact you broke the law and committed a crime based on the way you described the incident. Unbelievable!! In fear of serious bodily injury or death by a group of guys walking towards you is a stretch IMO. You might want to brush up on state law before you find yourself is some legal jeopardy.

Please tell us how you would have reacted to this and what you would have done. I really want to know how the OP handled this wrong.

 

[Catmanjoe]

Wow thats like the stories in my NRA mag... I would say your alive and well you did good..

 

[nighthawk80]

First of all, thanks for letting us know your read of the situation and legality of action as an LEO. It is very helpful for us to get that read and understand it so we can consider what to learn from it.

I take it the law broken in your eyes is intimidation, threatening, or brandishing? And the reason for it is that he was not yet in imminent danger and the threat had not ID'd itself or made an actual threatening claim, right?

Now, before this turns into an ad for Shay and his Force on Force classes (or training in general), I do agree that we as a group do not have enough training to be able to handle a threat once it has fully executed it's attack. As such, we need to act, or feel the need to act, while we still have time to do so to shut down the attack and save ourselves.

As such, I still cannot see any legal fail in the draw of the firearm, period. I assume the problem is in the presentation/aim at the threat. Am I correct?

Would you see the same legal problem with him drawing, not pointing, and ordering the person to go away? Or must he wait for the person to close fully, and make their attack before he can legally begin to defend himself? If so, is a defense against multiple attackers even possible for a senior citizen (for instance)?

I still stand by my read of the situation and say he acted wisely and saved his own butt and that I would have done the same. At the same time, if you can offer a better course of action that would have generated the same result, and left the OP in a better legal situation (in your eyes), please share it so that we can all learn.

Thanks!

Big +1
I totally agree. I would of drawn also. Sounds like the OP definately had his spidey senses turned on.

 

[hardtrailz400]

I think the OP acted appropriately and since the Spanglish being spoken could have quite easily been threats, I would feel in danger as well. If they bothered to learn English, they may not have had a gun drawn on them, but in this case...the vehicle being basically surrounded, the auto being touched and your space invaded, potential threats being uttered, I would have pulled and dialed 911 and waited for the squad car nearby.

I would like to hear j706's better plan of action and explanation of crime committed when the vehicle (personal Property) has been violated and hostile postions being taken by the 3. I dont like to be surrounded and think it is not typical, friendly postioning to inquire about the time.

 

[LPMan59]

to the dissenters, i think the context of this situation must be accounted for. based on the activity and the time of the OP, i would assume this took place at night. and at a liquor store.

this guy wasnt approached by 3 soccer moms at Clay Terrace.

i would have been on high alert as well.

 

[Joe Williams]

So let me get this right, You exit a store and three males approach you and/or your vehicle and you draw a weapon and point it? WOW!! Yes you did wrong. Matter of fact you broke the law and committed a crime based on the way you described the incident. Unbelievable!! In fear of serious bodily injury or death by a group of guys walking towards you is a stretch IMO. You might want to brush up on state law before you find yourself is some legal jeopardy.

This post does, serves as a good example of why folks may want to be a little slow on the "file a police report" thing. Not all of them view us as the good guys. If Chubbs files a police report with cops, he would be risking arrest, despite the fact there is an excellent chance that this was an attempted strong arm robbery, or worse. .

Not everyone supports our right to defend ourselves, or to carry firearms. That's just how it is. Thankfully, though, we can in fact do so. Chubbs, Welcome to the ranks of roughly two million Americans who defend themselves with a firearm every year, usually without a shot being fired.

 

[Fletch]

OP handled it right, IMO. 3:1 is a textbook disparity of force, and the approach is threatening as I've ever seen.

Once while waiting in the car for my wife to use the ATM, a punk came barreling around a corner and straight at her on rollerblades. And when I say "at her", I'm not talking her general direction. He was setting up for a body check. I opened the door and stood up with my hand on my gun, and he almost fell on his face trying to correct his course.

I'd do the same thing again, and I'd do the same thing as the OP.

 

[Steve]

Hindsight is 20/20, but you have to live thru the experience to use it!

I would have done exactly the same thing under those circumstances. And once the adrenalin had subsided, puked my guts out 1/2 a mile away.

Good call in my book.

 

[spartan933]

I think you did right. You were protecting your beer and you felt threatened. When they come from behind a dumpster and from two different directions, that's unusual, and likely planned. Were they going to rob you, we will never know.

It's also a possibility that they were illegal immigrants and without proper identification, and were going to try and get you to purchase some beer for them.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Like j706 said...I fail to see the threat...Because we carry people can't approach us? Sorry, my weapon is not my first line of defense when dealing with people. I see no need to even call the police in this situation.

It sounds to me like Chubbs drew because his amazing powers of...

...told him that they probably weren't coming from behind a liquor store dumpster and surrounding his vehicle to sell him Girl Scout cookies.

Let's review the original post ,with some comments/questions for the naysayers thrown in:

As i came out to head to the jeep two mexicans came out from the north of me from behind a dumpster.

Is this a normal location for people to hang out with their friends? What legitimate reason would someone have for hanging out behind a liquor store dumpster???

One yelled Hey,

Most people use a civil/normal speaking voice for *friendly*/non-threatening social interaction...

and followed that by something i didn't understand.

...and would attempt to make themselves understood if the interaction is above board/legit.

I...look behind me to see another mexican coming from the south side of the building...He's moving in fast,

...a similar approach pattern that is consistent with a predator attacking its next meal.

the solo mexican is at my door mumbling

..a common tactic to get the candidate victim to get closer to the attacker = little to no reaction time.

His two buddies are at the passenger side fender.

...classic divide (attention) and conquer/single envelopment/flanking tactics. When you approach friend A with friends B and C with you, it is your SOP for your group to split up and sandwich/surround Friend A so that he cannot see all of you at the same time without turning his head??

No, you do not... Again, classic predator/pack hunter tactics.

He puts his hands on the edge of my door

At that moment, what legitimate reason could he possibly have for touching a car that doesn't belong to him? Simple...NONE!!

and so i show him whats in my right hand...He starts back peddling saying wrong you, wrong you.

If he had any legitimate reason for his (and his amigo's) actions, a gun in the face is nature's way of saying, "You make me uncomfortable , please state the nature of your business..." , and would be the time when someone who DID have a legitimate reason would explain what that reason is, not scurry away like a ****roach when the kitchen light comes on.

He never really threatened me,

...no "he" didn't...

3 on 1 sucks

THE THREE OF THEM did! Disparity of force/force of numbers...

even if i'm a big guy and they were 130 pounds soaken wet.

6-ounce piranha versus 1000-pound bull crossing a river = one ever so-slightly annoyed bull
1000 6-ounce piranha versus 1000-pound bull = dead, skeletonized bull in less than 5 minutes

Assuming you didn't leave any key details out (I.E. After he yelled "HEY!" he said, "Good day, Senhor, we are Ford-erales, you know, the un-mounted faith healers of peeeek-up trucks. Tools? Tools?!? We don' need no stinkin' TOOLS!!?! I weeell make your truck as good as new by laying my hands on eeet!" ), common sense says that they were up to no good and you were absolutely in the right in drawing down on these turds .

 

[Tommy2Tone]

So j706 is a police office? Just reading some of the other posts. Wow. I have the up most respect for LEO's so i would like to hear the reasoning and then form my conclusion but as it stands now...i really am at a disbelief that an LEO would feel this way.

 

[kyle1058]

Well, you presented the arm in your own occupied motor vehicle and they were threatning and attempting to prevent you from leaving... Good chance they were trying to rob you of your liquor/beer, your money, your car, and a good chance of getting severely injured had you not had the firearm.

The law would be on your side on that one and I believe you did the right thing, but did you call the police afterwards and file a report or at least report the incident? That's probably the only bad thing I could see..

In the unlikely chance they would call the police first, that's bad for you. It would have been a three on one opinion against you. Lot's of "if's", but filing the report first is always the best decision. (Once you reach a safe location)

Good job! +rep

 

[csm47362]

I agree with most on here. In the same situation I would have my CCW in hand. The only thing I am not to sure of it the pointing it at them. I had a situational a few years ago when I was at an ATM where a car pulled up behind me turn on the brights then I heard to doors open. I could not see anything with the brights in my mirror so I just pulled my weapon and lifted it. I heard 2 doors slam and burning rubber.

The idea that one can defend them selfs scares the crap out of most criminal even if they are armed.

Glad your here to tell the story Chubbs