I am *begging* you, stop carrying on an empty chamber.

[BRE4L]

You would do your kids a world of good, and yourself, by taking a class and getting some training.

We've gone to a couple. I'd like to go more tho. I'm real active with my kids and a pistol is hard to carry around sometimes. I would say 50% of the time I don't carry just keep it in the car.

 

[bwframe]

...Who's to say your way is better than mine or vis versa...

...I think people should focus more on how to properly use a pistol not just throw it in the sock draw.

Interesting. Have you done much research on this?

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

What do you do with all those bullets that are set back into the case from all this chambering?

I don't unchamber it. It just sits in there waiting to go bang, The only time I unchamber is to clean my EDC every couple of months. I just rotate it to the bottom of the mag.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend but to blame an unloaded gun for that persons death is nuts. Who's to say he/she would of got a got shot on a person or even hit them at that.

None of them were my friends, they were victims. I would say you have a much better chance of hitting someone with a loaded pistol than an unloaded one.

Who's to say your way is better than mine or vis versa.

Years of experience as an armed professional, foreign and domestic, and investigating people shot, stabbed, and robbed for a living giving me access to literally hundreds of case files on homicides and attempted homicides. I don't have to base my opinions on second hand information or hypotheticals. I get a front row seat to real life tests of what works and what doesn't. I get to learn from people who died and people who lived by working their crime scenes.

Are you telling me as long as my gun is loaded and ready to go I will survive any circumstance?

No, of course it doesn't guarantee you'll survive. I've had victims dead with their pistol still holstered. I've had victims shot after pulling their own pistol. I've had victims shot reaching for a gun in their car. I've had victims shot who had no weapon at all. What I can guarantee is you have a *better* chance of survival if you carry your pistol the way it was meant to be carried and that no one ever wished they were slower in a gun fight.

Are you saying having one bullet chambered would allow me not to freeze and cower when someone has knocked me to the ground? Better yet, this person is trying to get my pistol that is chambered? Did that chambered bullet help me then?

I guess perhaps just don't bother to carry a gun since some people go their whole lifetime without needing it. Are you actually saying you are carrying with the idea you'll never need it? Than why bother to carry it, especially if your primary concern is it will be used against you? Its not the odds, its the stakes. If you're going to carry, carry with the thought you may need to use it and prepare for that.

People live an entire lifetime without touching a gun and survive just fine until that drunk driver kills them on the highway one day. I guess he should of had that gun chambered it would of protected him. A gun isn't the end all be all its just "another tool" in defending ourselves

That's like saying you shouldn't wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle, because lots of guys are never in an accident, and you could still get AIDS.

I think people should focus more on how to properly use a pistol not just throw it in the sock draw.

They should, including carrying it in the condition it was designed for.

 

[Birds Away]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend but to blame an unloaded gun for that persons death is nuts. Who's to say he/she would of got a got shot on a person or even hit them at that. I'm no better than anyone else, I just choose to defend myself in different ways. Who's to say your way is better than mine or vis versa. Are you telling me as long as my gun is loaded and ready to go I will survive any circumstance? Are you saying having one bullet chambered would allow me not to freeze and cower when someone has knocked me to the ground? Better yet, this person is trying to get my pistol that is chambered? Did that chambered bullet help me then? People live an entire lifetime without touching a gun and survive just fine until that drunk driver kills them on the highway one day. I guess he should of had that gun chambered it would of protected him. A gun isn't the end all be all its just "another tool" in defending ourselves. I think people should focus more on how to properly use a pistol not just throw it in the sock draw.

What if I shoot my kid while trying to get the bad guy?

I think maybe you should sell your gun and buy a pony. Your rationalizations, that you obviously think passes for "logic", about guns just gives me a headache.

 

[Expat]

I think maybe you should sell your gun and buy a pony.

I thought you were a CZ guy. Glad to see you are into Colts now

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

None of them were my friends, they were victims. I would say you have a much better chance of hitting someone with a loaded pistol than an unloaded one.



Years of experience as an armed professional, foreign and domestic, and investigating people shot, stabbed, and robbed for a living giving me access to literally hundreds of case files on homicides and attempted homicides. I don't have to base my opinions on second hand information or hypotheticals. I get a front row seat to real life tests of what works and what doesn't. I get to learn from people who died and people who lived by working their crime scenes.



No, of course it doesn't guarantee you'll survive. I've had victims dead with their pistol still holstered. I've had victims shot after pulling their own pistol. I've had victims shot reaching for a gun in their car. I've had victims shot who had no weapon at all. What I can guarantee is you have a *better* chance of survival if you carry your pistol the way it was meant to be carried and that no one ever wished they were slower in a gun fight.



I guess perhaps just don't bother to carry a gun since some people go their whole lifetime without needing it. Are you actually saying you are carrying with the idea you'll never need it? Than why bother to carry it, especially if your primary concern is it will be used against you? Its not the odds, its the stakes. If you're going to carry, carry with the thought you may need to use it and prepare for that.



That's like saying you shouldn't wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle, because lots of guys are never in an accident, and you could still get AIDS.



They should, including carrying it in the condition it was designed for.

Excellent rebuttal, BBI. I fail to see how one can read this thread and then post what he did. Ignorance can indeed be deadly.

 

[churchmouse]

I think maybe you should sell your gun and buy a pony. Your rationalizations, that you obviously think passes for "logic", about guns just gives me a headache.

I had to stop half way through. These folks make me nuts. Sounds like a woman I know......
Just saying.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Oops. Dupage.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Some training may fix his knowledge gap. One Tueller Drill just might fill in the ignorant spot. Maybe.

Even though this thread didn't...maybe that would.

 

[churchmouse]

Some training may fix his knowledge gap. One Tueller Drill just might fill in the ignorant spot. Maybe.

Even though this thread didn't...maybe that would.

OK......Stop yelling at me......

 

[printcraft]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend but to blame an unloaded gun for that persons death is nuts. Who's to say he/she would of got a got shot on a person or even hit them at that. I'm no better than anyone else, I just choose to defend myself in different ways. Who's to say your way is better than mine or vis versa. Are you telling me as long as my gun is loaded and ready to go I will survive any circumstance? Are you saying having one bullet chambered would allow me not to freeze and cower when someone has knocked me to the ground? Better yet, this person is trying to get my pistol that is chambered? Did that chambered bullet help me then? People live an entire lifetime without touching a gun and survive just fine until that drunk driver kills them on the highway one day. I guess he should of had that gun chambered it would of protected him. A gun isn't the end all be all its just "another tool" in defending ourselves. I think people should focus more on how to properly use a pistol not just throw it in the sock draw.

What if I shoot my kid while trying to get the bad guy?

 

[dmarsh8]

+2 BBI's...Its not the odds, its the stakes. <<<<< That right there is the only statement needed in
a discussion with people like this. I just had this exact phrase go through my mind when
I woke up today.
Sanity isn't statistical. Just because a lot of dumb people do something or think a certain way
doesn't make it a smart thing to do.

 

[gjclark]

This is what I have been unsuccessful in trying to tell my girlfriend but maybe someone else will have more luck...
The way I see it is there are 2 situations. One situation I have control of and the other situation I don't. The situation I have control of is how I handle my gun and the care I take when handling it when there is no S to HTF. During this situation carrying with one in the chamber presents no greater danger to myself as I have all of my wits about me and am IN CONTROL of the situation. The second situation is that which I am not in control. The situation where S is hitting the fan. In this moment anything can happen. You don't know if you have been shot in your weak arm, if you are fighting someone off, if you recognize the threat and draw before anything happens... You just don't know what can happen in that moment you can't control. And if you are suggesting to me that you are willing to give up a chance to survive in a situation you cannot control to earn yourself a false sense of security in a situation you can control I say that you really may need to reconsider. If you want to talk statistics of chambered rounds saving lives you need to consider the statistics of how many violent encounters occur in a time frame which would allow you to chamber a round and successfully fire. What I do know is that if I have one in the chamber I am ready for any situation and will handle my gun safely when I am in situations where I am calm and in control. I don't know how this doesn't sound like a win win. I carry a gun because I'm defending against the worst sort of situation imaginable... To put an unnecessary step between me and my survival of that event seems incredibly asinine.

 

[ghostdncr]

I used to carry condition three quite a bit. I had little kids in the house and was worried one of them might somehow come into contact with a chambered weapon and convinced myself C3 was often safer, especially when the kids were around.

Not long ago, an intriguing young contractor came to our company for several months of IT work. He's from Israel, been in the military over there, is a rabid student of Krav Maga, and strongly advocates force-on-force training. Believing C3 carry to be especially popular in Israel, I coerced him into some testing of the C1 vs. C3 argument. He typically carried C3 and his draw and simultaneous slide manipulation was very smooth and consistent. Also, I'm old, fat, and tired. Being highly trained, fit, and in his late twenties should skew our "conflict" in a more reality-based direction from my point of view, right?

Using our Airsoft pistols, we ran a number of scenarios in which I was always C1 and he was always C3. We finally stopped because he was so tired of getting shot. Not once did he get a shot off before I'd popped him, including the scenario where I stood with my back to him and drew only when I heard his draw initiated! If this dilapidated old man can outright own a young, highly trained Israeli soldier in such fashion, I really can't see how this continues to be an argument. Although I walked the C3 walk myself for many years, I failed to evaluate my chosen carry method in realistic force-on-force testing. Now, I realize the danger I exposed my children to wasn't from a C1 weapon, but from carrying in such an ineffective way. C3 may be a sound carry method when everything goes right, but how often does that happen?

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

This is what I have been unsuccessful in trying to tell my girlfriend but maybe someone else will have more luck...
The way I see it is there are 2 situations. One situation I have control of and the other situation I don't. The situation I have control of is how I handle my gun and the care I take when handling it when there is no S to HTF. During this situation carrying with one in the chamber presents no greater danger to myself as I have all of my wits about me and am IN CONTROL of the situation. The second situation is that which I am not in control. The situation where S is hitting the fan. In this moment anything can happen. You don't know if you have been shot in your weak arm, if you are fighting someone off, if you recognize the threat and draw before anything happens... You just don't know what can happen in that moment you can't control. And if you are suggesting to me that you are willing to give up a chance to survive in a situation you cannot control to earn yourself a false sense of security in a situation you can control I say that you really may need to reconsider. If you want to talk statistics of chambered rounds saving lives you need to consider the statistics of how many violent encounters occur in a time frame which would allow you to chamber a round and successfully fire. What I do know is that if I have one in the chamber I am ready for any situation and will handle my gun safely when I am in situations where I am calm and in control. I don't know how this doesn't sound like a win win. I carry a gun because I'm defending against the worst sort of situation imaginable... To put an unnecessary step between me and my survival of that event seems incredibly asinine.

Excellent post. I'm out of rep. Someone get him for me, please!

 

[Lectric102002]

Excellent post. I'm out of rep. Someone get him for me, please!

I got him.

And, I've got a pony for sale ...............

 

[bingley]

Are you saying having one bullet chambered would allow me not to freeze and cower when someone has knocked me to the ground?

I thought you said you were good at hand-to-hand? Physical techniques are not as important as the mental steadfastness. If you lose the fighting mindset, you'll lose no matter how good you are at beating up heavy bags.

Better yet, this person is trying to get my pistol that is chambered? Did that chambered bullet help me then?

When we were little, my brother sometimes grabbed my hand and hit me with me, saying, "Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?" These days, to prevent people from using my arms against me, I walk around in handcuffs. I've totally outfoxed the attacker. When he has me on the ground, and tries to hit me with my own hands, he'll be completely foiled!

If you're not comfortable with guns, that's OK. Maybe you just need more training. Maybe you'll never be comfortable. Maybe that's not your thing.

As for Israeli-style draw and slingshot, the videos I've seen are impressively fast for what they have to do. A lot of civilian shooters don't get that fast. But you have to train at lot to get to that speed. Then you're still working from a disadvantage.

 

[looney2ns]

Carrying without one chambered "for the children" is a cop out.

A-The gun should ALWAYs be in the holster on your body thus in your control.
or
B-Locked up in a secure manner where the kids can't access it.

Addition option is to put the gun in a holster that has some sort of retaining device.

The best and really the ultimate safety is the one between your ears.

Bet you won't find any police officers or military carrying their sidearm without one in the chamber. They are at a much higher risk at someone killing them with their own gun then you are.


[video=youtube_share;jwHYRBNc9r8]http://youtu.be/jwHYRBNc9r8[/video]

 

[churchmouse]

Excellent post. I'm out of rep. Someone get him for me, please!

I got him as well.
Having spared with a person trained in Krav Maga I am aware of how they approach Force On Force training. I grew weary of getting my A$$ handed to me until I stepped up my game. I think some of the kinks in my neck are from those sessions.