I am *begging* you, stop carrying on an empty chamber.

[Slawburger]

Worked for Earnest T. Bass

Ernest T. Bass always had one cocked and ready as well as a full mag (pocket).

Aside: I met him once, nice guy.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Here is the story. An experienced cop. Switched from carrying a revolver to carrying a pistol. Had one in the pipe. Shot himself because he was UNFAMILIAR with the firearm.

So…..with all of the new shooters that show up on this site, I think it's a little irresponsible to "beg" them to carry with one in the pipe if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

As I said way up thread. I carry with one in the pipe on my pistol and not in my AR. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should do, but the statistics for accidents tend to outweigh the "begging".

Manatee I agree with a lot of your post but not this one. The correct way to carry a firearm is ready to fire period. If a noobie is afraid of carrying one in the chamber they need to get some training not be told that it is ok if it makes them feel better.

I'm sorry guy but your giving bad advise!

You need to read between the lines on BBI's plea. Something just happened that they can't comment on with someone they know.

 

[Old_grunt]

Not to mention he uses a HIGHLY modified handgun.

I think you should check out this link and perhaps redefine your understanding of 'HIGHLY modified'. IMO, changing springs, honing and polishing internals on a SAA or other pistol is 'modifying', then there's something very wrong with your definition.
Bob Munden » The Fastest Gun Who Ever Lived, Munden Enterprises, Munden's Six-Gun Magic by Jeff Ault, Fast Draw, Six-Gun Magic, Custom Gun Work, shooting videos, dvds, School of the Fast Gun, history of fast draw, appearances

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Here is the story. An experienced cop. Switched from carrying a revolver to carrying a pistol. Had one in the pipe. Shot himself because he was UNFAMILIAR with the firearm.

So…..with all of the new shooters that show up on this site, I think it's a little irresponsible to "beg" them to carry with one in the pipe if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

As I said way up thread. I carry with one in the pipe on my pistol and not in my AR. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should do, but the statistics for accidents tend to outweigh the "begging".

.

A noob who is uncomfortable carrying a self loader with a round in the pipe has no business carrying a self loader. A semi pistol with an empty chamber is nothing but a short, unwieldy club.

 

[Manatee]

.

A noob who is uncomfortable carrying a self loader with a round in the pipe has no business carrying a self loader. A semi pistol with an empty chamber is nothing but a short, unwieldy club.

I agree with the sentiment and that, basically, is my concern. There are many members on this site that would be considered new to shooting or new to semi-autos.

 

[CindyE]

I'm glad our idiot neighbor carries unchambered. He has swept us with the muzzle more than a few times. My husband took him to the range once...never again. He claims he can chamber a round quick enough to defend himself. I don't think he can do much of anything quick.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It seems as though you guys are arguing about 2 different points on a continuum. Let's look at gun ownership or shooting ability or whatever term you wish to call it as a continuum beginning at the point in time a person shoots a gun for the very first time and continues on past the point of expert marksman/championship competition shooter/etc. One might argue that for most of us that carry for self protection, we need to end up somewhere in between. We need to be competent, trained, and skilled at (among other things) drawing, firing, and using our EDC. As such, most would argue (as BBI did in his OP) carrying a gun "locked and cocked" is the correct way to carry. For those earlier on that continuum, as others have mentioned, they are not yet comfortable or competent to carry in the best manner. That doesn't necessarily mean we're right and they're wrong, IMO merely points out they owe it to themselves to train-up and practice until they reach that level of competence and comfort.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I'm glad our idiot neighbor carries unchambered. He has swept us with the muzzle more than a few times. My husband took him to the range once...never again. He claims he can chamber a round quick enough to defend himself. I don't think he can do much of anything quick.

Your neighbor needs to be properly trained. Us men are the worst. We think that it will somehow make us less of a man if we aren't the all knowing OZ of the gun world. For instance a friend was at my house yesterday looking at my new 1911. I dropped the mag and racked the slide open to show that it was empty. During his admiring the 1911 he was sweeping me with the barrel. I brought it to his attention and he said he wasn't pointing it at me. It was pointed about 3" above my shoulder. I told him that he has indeed swept me and that the 3" above my shoulder was still in my personal space. He took it as a slam to to gun knowledge but I let him know it was not following the four's of safety. It is all about EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION!

I knew the gun was unloaded when I handed it to him but it is a matter of training the brain to never sweep anyone.

Your husband needs to say something to him about sweeping people, the life you save may be your own. I am polite when I tell the offender if it is done on accident the first time. The second time not so polite.

 

[Trigger Time]

Here is the story. An experienced cop. Switched from carrying a revolver to carrying a pistol. Had one in the pipe. Shot himself because he was UNFAMILIAR with the firearm.

So…..with all of the new shooters that show up on this site, I think it's a little irresponsible to "beg" them to carry with one in the pipe if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

As I said way up thread. I carry with one in the pipe on my pistol and not in my AR. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should do, but the statistics for accidents tend to outweigh the "begging".

I believe it was me who called people carrying without one in the pipe idiots. Or at least doing themselves a disservice for outdated training (even some military) or none.

whats irresponsible is new shooters or any shooter carrying around a gun before they are properly trained to operate it. This comes before anything else. Then add the empty chamber to that and well I've already commented on that.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Here is the story. An experienced cop. Switched from carrying a revolver to carrying a pistol. Had one in the pipe. Shot himself because he was UNFAMILIAR with the firearm.

So…..with all of the new shooters that show up on this site, I think it's a little irresponsible to "beg" them to carry with one in the pipe if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

As I said way up thread. I carry with one in the pipe on my pistol and not in my AR. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should do, but the statistics for accidents tend to outweigh the "begging".

This was taken from the Bangor Daily News report:
“We essentially replaced the department’s firearms,” he said. “We had Sig Sauer .45-caliber semiautomatic [handguns] and moved to Glocks.”
From what I read he went from a Sig Semi-Auto to a Glock Semi-Auto.

You asked for statistics in your earlier threads. Do you have any information on the Chief's level of competency with a firearm. Do you know that his training level is? (25 years of service doesn't necessarily mean 25 yrs of good training)

I'm not trying to be a jerk but I just don't see your point. Chief Hathaway was quoted as saying: “[Hathaway’s] message is going to be train, train, train,”

 

[NHT3]

Here is the story. An experienced cop. Switched from carrying a revolver to carrying a pistol. Had one in the pipe. Shot himself because he was UNFAMILIAR with the firearm.

So…..with all of the new shooters that show up on this site, I think it's a little irresponsible to "beg" them to carry with one in the pipe if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

As I said way up thread. I carry with one in the pipe on my pistol and not in my AR. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should do, but the statistics for accidents tend to outweigh the "begging".

Unfamiliar is a cop out, no pun intended. He didn't shoot himself because he was "unfamiliar" with the firearm. He shot HIMSELF because he pointed the pistol AT himself and pulled the trigger breaking the two of the four most basic firearm handling rules with ANY firearm. Never point your firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy and never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target. He might have been experienced as a cop but woefully inadequate where safety procedures are concerned. Just my .02


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NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] --[/FONT]1911 Mechanic

 

[Gluemanz28]

Unfamiliar is a cop out, no pun intended. He didn't shoot himself because he was "unfamiliar" with the firearm. He shot HIMSELF because he pointed the pistol AT himself and pulled the trigger breaking the two of the four most basic firearm handling rules with ANY firearm. Never point your firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy and never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target. He might have been experienced as a cop but woefully inadequate where safety procedures are concerned. Just my .02

 

[tbone]

i could not agree more.as ex military&a retired LEO,you are required to lock&load.it should not be a issue if you follow the 4 basic rules.Happy Trails

 

[Manatee]

This reminds me of a trip I had outside of Munich, Germany riding with a German business associate at a very high rate of speed. I asked him they had many accidents on the Autobahn. His response: We have no accidents. Only fatalities.

We have many cases of negligent gun injury in the United States. Perhaps more focus on safety and training should eclipse the need to first tell everyone to carry cocked and locked.

 

[bwframe]

I think the request to carry with one in the chamber would also come with a request to be properly trained.

...Perhaps more focus on safety and training should eclipse the need to first tell everyone to carry cocked and locked.

The emphasis on training is correct! You don't have to request trained carriers to carry chambered.

IMHO, if you are not prepared to carry your gun loaded, maybe you shouldn't carry at all until you are?

 

[TAT7]

Here is what we at USDS discuss with new shooters (and experienced ones at that) that come in our door talking firearm carrying;

-You don't give a 16 year old a set of keys and say "go drive"....You train them first then let them drive...the same should go with firearms.

-After you get some training, range time, understand your weapon system, and know/practice the 4 basic firearm safety rules you are now ready to carry your firearm efficiently.

-Carry your firearm the way is was DESIGNED to be carried, 99.9% of them are DESIGNED to carry one in the chamber.

-Understand some are designed to be carried round in chamber, cocked, safety on. Some are designed to be carried with no safety design, cocked, round in chamber (Glock, M&P, XD, etc) and so on.

-A good holster is KEY!

-Training should never stop.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Here is what we at USDS discuss with new shooters (and experienced ones at that) that come in our door talking firearm carrying;

-You don't give a 16 year old a set of keys and say "go drive"....You train them first then let them drive...the same should go with firearms.

-After you get some training, range time, understand your weapon system, and know/practice the 4 basic firearm safety rules you are now ready to carry your firearm efficiently.

-Carry your firearm the way is was DESIGNED to be carried, 99.9% of them are DESIGNED to carry one in the chamber.

-Understand some are designed to be carried round in chamber, cocked, safety on. Some are designed to be carried with no safety design, cocked, round in chamber (Glock, M&P, XD, etc) and so on.

-A good holster is KEY!

-Training should never stop.

USDS is taking a great approach to training. Keep up the good work of turning out trained operators.

 

[NHT3]

This reminds me of a trip I had outside of Munich, Germany riding with a German business associate at a very high rate of speed. I asked him they had many accidents on the Autobahn. His response: We have no accidents. Only fatalities.

We have many cases of negligent gun injury in the United States. Perhaps more focus on safety and training should eclipse the need to first tell everyone to carry cocked and locked.

IMHO this discussion had gotten completely off the original subject (seems to happen a lot here )
It's apples and oranges. There is a correct way to carry a firearm and a safe way. Correct way to carry is, in almost all cases with a round in the chamber, safe way is to follow the 4 basic safety rules. IF you are going to carry to protect yourself and your family use the tool as it is supposed to be used or it may cost you your life. I can't speak for BehindblueIs but I believe that is what he was suggesting.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]Ruger MK III mechanic [FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT]Certified Glock armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] --[/FONT]1911 Mechanic

 

[gglass]

Unfamiliar is a cop out, no pun intended. He didn't shoot himself because he was "unfamiliar" with the firearm. He shot HIMSELF because he pointed the pistol AT himself and pulled the trigger breaking the two of the four most basic firearm handling rules with ANY firearm. Never point your firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy and never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target. He might have been experienced as a cop but woefully inadequate where safety procedures are concerned. Just my .02

Now that right there is a great rebuttal. +1,000,000

 

[Manatee]