How would you like to be treated by law-enforcement?

[ThrottleJockey]

Where has anybody on INGO said or posted they believe Frank or any other officer should "be treated like some *******'s *****?"

That was just the way frank thinks servants should be treated.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Frank confuses the word "servant" with "menial".

Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others. However, they always understood they were to act in the best interest of their employers, their masters so to speak. In other words for today's civil servants, the great American public.

I said in a later post that someone had denied that being a servant is associated with being in a menial position. Here is me being taken to task for saying that.

Really? Perhaps you can find that and quote it. Or perhaps not, since you just made that up from thin air.

OK...........The first Statement is Jack Burton explaining that being a servant is not a menial position. the second statement is Jack Burton saying that I made it up out of thin air........

 

[vitamink]

Reserve officers don't receive compensation in the form of a salary however you seem to forget about the other criteria listed, privilege and authority....they seem to be more than enough for some don't they. The reserve officer program hardly qualifies in this case.

The "traumatic event" as you call it was hardly the reason I take issue with those that would violate my rights simply because they can. I and many others in society have issue with being taken advantage of by those with privilege and perceived authority. Have you ever heard anyone make the claim that "in court it is a cops word against an ordinary joes word"? Usually followed by "Who do you think the judge is going to believe?". This bull **** happens WAAAAY more than anyone would care to admit and I know from experience. I'm not going into the details here or anywhere else but I've suffered as a result of lying bastard cops in this manner my whole life, time and time again. Don't mistake what I've said, I understand there are some good guys that are police that probably aren't lying bastards, I just haven't met any yet. You just have to take my word for it, I have no positive experiences with LEOs and have no use for them. As long as they leave me alone and mind their own business, I'll leave them alone and make sure I'm none of their business. I'll even keep paying taxes so they can continue to have jobs. I take personal responsibility for my life, safety and property and suggest we should all do the same.

Obviously our experiences differ. I'm from the city and have never heard a cop say "who do you think the judge is going to believe". I know that you don't want to go into specifics but i can't help but ask. I've been on this planet for 30+ years. In that time i have received some tickets that i richly deserved and more often than not i was given warnings when i should've received tickets. You mention "my [your] whole life" "time and time again" "lying bastard cops" all from your experience. How were you the focus of these lying bastard cops time and time again throughout your entire life?

I'm only asking as i think your opinion has merit. You have an obvious and thorough dislike for the police and you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I value your opinion as, unlike the other cop haters, you actually talk about guns and gun ownership as well as actually own some (nice) guns. I'm always interested in how people come to their conclusions.

 

[Denny347]

Hey, I "don't bother" people all the time but how would they know it since I'm "not bothering" them? This thread sucks.

 

[Birds Away]

Hey, I "don't bother" people all the time but how would they know it since I'm "not bothering" them? This thread sucks.

I concur. People feel powerless when faced with the authority of the Police. I guess calling them "servants" somehow makes them feel better.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I concur. People feel powerless when faced with the authority of the Police. I guess calling them "servants" somehow makes them feel better.

Or it could just be that "public servant" is their job title. Heck, don't they even have to take the "civil service" exam at some point before becoming police?

 

[Jack Burton]

I said in a later post that someone had denied that being a servant is associated with being in a menial position. Here is me being taken to task for saying that.



OK...........The first Statement is Jack Burton explaining that being a servant is not a menial position. the second statement is Jack Burton saying that I made it up out of thin air........

And this is why it is so hard to have a good discussion on the 'net.

Did anyone seen anything in my post where I was "explaining that being a servant is not a menial position."

Is there anything in the sentence "Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others. However, they always understood they were to act in the best interest of their employers," that could be argued with? If so, then argue with the sentences, not with made up stuff that you read into it.

His actual quote is "the word "menial" was specifically denied as being connected with being a servant. " [emphasis mine]

Again, if he wants to find an actual quote where I or anyone else "specifically denied" that then let him do so. And again, he will not be able to do so because he made that up from thin air. All he'll find is the rightful attempt to present the FULL meaning of the word.

 

[Bobby100]

for all that think cops make your life hell,try to imagine 24 hours in the world without them!!no im not a cop and i've met some bad ones but most are pretty good people if you give them a chance.its about additude start off your day thinking the world is out to get you and it will.

 

[thompal]

Please do NOT put the well meaning police officer in a position to determine what is "normal behavior"!!!!!!!!
He has enough to deal with watching out for blatant law breakers to spend any time at all "observing" and coming to a judgment call about someone's "normal behavior"
On this comment I call FOUL!

But, don't you think common sense has to come into play at some point??

Consider two examples: A middle aged guy with his wife, pushing a 1 year old in a stroller through the park at 4pm, with a Kimber OCed in a OWB holster. The second example is that of a young guy in a hoodie with a Glock stuck in his waistband standing outside a VP door at 2am.

Are you saying that both should be approached in exactly the same confrontational manner, disarmed, possibly cuffed, and their firearm's serial number run?

OR, perhaps you could see the first guy and think to yourself "looks like a guy and his family out for a day in the park," and look at the second guy and decide "looks like a thug getting ready to rob the VP?"

At some point, people have to realize that you can't treat every citizen as a criminal, and approach every contact in that context.

 

[thompal]

Situational awareness should be for personal protection and should never be lax.... What it sounded to me like was that you were suggesting the idea of dispatching an officer to "observe" someone that some sheeple somewhere were spooked by.
As evidence by this very thread I think that certain law enforcement officers would consider the mere posssession of a handgun by a civilian as "questionable" or "not normal behavior". Do you really think this is a good idea????? In the REAL WORLD I mean.

This is a totally invalid concept. Allowing citizen contacts to be governed more by the OPINIONS of "certain law enforcement officers" as opposed to be ruled by the law and common sense.

Consider the fact that "CERTAIN law enforcement officers" may consider black people, or long haired people, or hispanics, or whatever, to be "questionable." While I'm sure the number of LEOs who hold that belief is small, is it your position that it is acceptable for those LEOs to let their opinion govern their behavior when presented with such a person??

 

[thompal]

Does Delaware have some juristiction here in Indiana? Or do we really use court cases from other states to help decide on cases here in Indiana?
I am NOT a lawyer.....I am asking a serious question.

Since that was a US Supreme Court decision, yes, it does apply here.

 

[thompal]

You forgot about IC 35-47-2-2 Excepted persons which allows LEO's to carry without breaking the law.

So, is everyone in a uniform who is carrying pulled over and required to show proof of LEOness?

 

[DFM914]

Here's some links.

Some fine looking links I might say...

 

[thompal]

Based upon Franks understanding of the concept of a civil servant he would probably also expect the Secretary of State to take dictation notes and run the copy machine at presidential cabinet meetings.

That probably wouldn't go over too well with the current Secretary of State.

I imagine Hillary just holds the paper, and glares at the pencil, and expects
it to eventually submit and write its own words.

 

[DFM914]

 

[thompal]

You might want to check your own agency's website...right there in the middle of the screen no less.

"
Mission Statement
We are dedicated to upholding the highest professional standards while serving the community in which we work and live. We are committed to the enforcement of laws to protect life and property, while also respecting individual rights, human dignity, and community values. We are committed to creating and maintaining active police/community partnerships and assisting citizens in identifying and solving problems to improve the quality of life in their neighborhoods. "
IMPD Home Page

Just to nitpick, you may notice that it says "serving the community," and NOT "serving the citizens."

 

[rugertoter]

I would expect to be treated the way I treat them. Pretty simple actually.

 

[public servant]

I would expect to be treated the way I treat them. Pretty simple actually.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Just to nitpick, you may notice that it says "serving the community," and NOT "serving the citizens."

You're getting closer! I've posted it all over INGO, probably even in this thread. It is an inconvenient truth that most LEOs don't want to deal with because of the ramifications should the public actually know.

I would expect to be treated the way I treat them. Pretty simple actually.

Oh, you mean like this

I mind my own business and expect them to mind theirs. I like being left the F**K alone. If there MUST be contact, I expect them to act as servants and treat me with respect and in accordance with the law.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Frank confuses the word "servant" with "menial".

Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others. However, they always understood they were to act in the best interest of their employers, their masters so to speak. In other words for today's civil servants, the great American public.

And this is why it is so hard to have a good discussion on the 'net.

Did anyone seen anything in my post where I was "explaining that being a servant is not a menial position."

Is there anything in the sentence "Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others. However, they always understood they were to act in the best interest of their employers," that could be argued with? If so, then argue with the sentences, not with made up stuff that you read into it.

His actual quote is "the word "menial" was specifically denied as being connected with being a servant. " [emphasis mine]

Again, if he wants to find an actual quote where I or anyone else "specifically denied" that then let him do so. And again, he will not be able to do so because he made that up from thin air. All he'll find is the rightful attempt to present the FULL meaning of the word.

Ok Jack, I am too ignorant to understand when the true intellectuals speak. Just to put me to shame for my stupidity, why dont you explain this sentence -
"Frank confuses the word "servant" with "menial".
You are not indicating that frank is wrong to connect the word servant with the word menial? you Didn't mean to indicate that frank was wrong to do so?

While you are enlightening the ignorant, go ahead and address this statement -
"Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others. However, they always understood they were to act in the best interest of their employers, their masters so to speak. In other words for today's civil servants, the great American public."
You are not quoted here giving an explanation as to why confusing the word "servant" with "menial" Is inaccurate? You are not "denying" that it's proper to equate "servant" with "menial"?

I said before that I started into this thread to rip frank for equating servant with being in a menial position. The Merriam Webster dictionary changed my mind when they indicated that the words were synonyms for each other. One guy indicated, quite truthfully that the dictionary might not be a trustworthy authority given it's past changes. I see his point.

I don't see Jack's point at all, Is he saying that servant indicates a menial position or is he denying it? Is his explanation that
"Historically many servants were given positions of great power and authority over others." A denial that these people were in menial positions or not?

I said before that I am not confused, Merriam Webster Dictionary is confused.