How to serve a warrant: 1972 versus today

[jbombelli]

... Some of these raids that I see on SWAT based shows similar to Cops, I am left wondering why was such a raid is necessary.

On top of that, if it's so dangerous that you need a SWAT team, is it really prudent to have a whole camera crew along for the ride?

 

[JB357Mag]

For our LEOs, I have a few questions:

1. How many innocent deaths are acceptable?
2. How many wrong address raids, with or without casualties are acceptable?
3. How many family pets killed for existing are acceptable?
4. How many officers walking away with impunity and/or reward for the above are acceptable?
5. How many incidents of theft of money and/or property with absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing are acceptable?
6. How many innocent children terrorized in raids are acceptable?
7. If you consider 'sacrificing' citizens (like me, for example) for the greater good, generally in form of the war on proscribed substances, why should your life mean anything to me? Seriously, by defending relatively indiscriminate military-style raids, you are communicating that you consider me (along with most other people) expendable. Now explain again please why I am expected to cheer you on while you do so.

I understand that you have a unique and serious set of occupational hazards and that the above issues do not happen every time or with every department, but they are becoming increasingly prevalent. Further, my observation is that if you consider what a person defends contrary to conventional principles (like that the police are supposed to defend the citizens, not be a threat to them), you see what that person will do given the opportunity.

In responding, please receive my criticisms only to the extent they are applicable personally as they are only intended in that regard. Specifically, it is easy to interpret any and all general criticism in a personal way which is not the case, unless of course you are one of those individuals terrorizing the innocent (which I am satisfied is not the case with those of you likely to be reading this).

Well said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The odds of a no knock warrant at my door is extremely low, I know that.

However, if it happens, me not being involved in any criminal activity
will automatically assume Im being home invaded by armed criminals.

Im not being a keyboard badass but I would probably arm myself and
start shooting.

Then guess what? Im dead.

Jimmy

EDIT: I live in an apt and over the years Ive had about 10 people includeing
2 cops knock on my door looking for someone in another apt.

Just sayin.

 

[Whosyer]

If it looks like a military force, gears up like a military force, trains like a military force, and operates like a military force; what else could it be? Therein lies the crux of the criticism. When people are seeing military style raids being used to kill Bambi, they are naturally going to ask questions and criticize. Some of these raids that I see on SWAT based shows similar to Cops, I am left wondering why was such a raid is necessary.

Or confiscate okra.

Texas Police Hit Organic Farm With Massive SWAT Raid

Sounds like a frustrated neighbor , made up a bogus claim of marijuana growing, to get the place cleaned up. But a SWAT raid that lasted 10 hours? And only turned up okra and code violations? What kind of investigation was done prior to obtaining a warrant?

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Or confiscate okra.

Texas Police Hit Organic Farm With Massive SWAT Raid

Sounds like a frustrated neighbor , made up a bogus claim of marijuana growing, to get the place cleaned up. But a SWAT raid that lasted 10 hours? And only turned up okra and code violations? What kind of investigation was done prior to obtaining a warrant?

Blackberries, okra, tomatos, grasses and sunflowers...Jesus wept.

I miss my Dad but I'm glad he's not here to see just how far into the cesspool our profession has descended.

 

[j706]

Well said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The odds of a no knock warrant at my door is extremely low, I know that.

However, if it happens, me not being involved in any criminal activity
will automatically assume Im being home invaded by armed criminals.

Im not being a keyboard badass but I would probably arm myself and
start shooting.

Then guess what? Im dead.

Jimmy

EDIT: I live in an apt and over the years Ive had about 10 people includeing
2 cops knock on my door looking for someone in another apt.

Just sayin.

I am curious as to why you would start shooting? One can safely assume that a SWAT raid on your place is going to be the police. Would you start shooting just because they might be or where at the wrong place?

 

[mrjarrell]

Criminals engaged in home invasions in a number of locales have made a habit of breaking in the doors while screaming they were the police. If I'm not doing anything illegal in my daily life and have no expectations of a no knock warrant being served on my home, I will react appropriately. Force will be met with force. If your compadres have made an error then it may well be their last.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I am curious as to why you would start shooting? One can safely assume that a SWAT raid on your place is going to be the police. Would you start shooting just because they might be or where at the wrong place?

I think he meant it would have to be criminals pretending to be the LEO since there is no reason for the LEO to be at his house.

Which did happen when a judge said us lowly citizens did not have a right to defend ourselves. I believe that was rectified later.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Blackberries, okra, tomatos, grasses and sunflowers...Jesus wept.

I miss my Dad but I'm glad he's not here to see just how far into the cesspool our profession has descended.

It still amazes me that you were able to complete your years on the job without making one single mistake or doing anything that pissed someone off.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

It still amazes me that you were able to complete your years on the job without making one single mistake or doing anything that pissed someone off.

I did plenty of both. Difference between me and guys that pull boneheaded crap like this is that I learned from it.

 

[jsharmon7]

I heard that gasoline only used to cost 2 bits per quart! And officers back then used to have walk to their calls, uphill in the snow, both ways!



OK, I didn't actually read the article.

 

[wally05]

If it looks like a military force, gears up like a military force, trains like a military force, and operates like a military force; what else could it be? Therein lies the crux of the criticism. When people are seeing military style raids being used to kill Bambi, they are naturally going to ask questions and criticize. Some of these raids that I see on SWAT based shows similar to Cops, I am left wondering why was such a raid is necessary.

If it looks like a military assault rifle, fires the same round as a military assault rifle, when what else could it be? Can you see how that logic doesn't work when attributed to stuff you thoroughly support? The plus here is that the people in the city... the voters can pull together and go after that stuff if it abused. That wouldn't be the case if the military was doing it.

Anyways, why am I still replying to this? Denny is right, it's a sickness. I'm going to go eat some fried foods now...

 

[IndyDave1776]

If it looks like a military assault rifle, fires the same round as a military assault rifle, when what else could it be? Can you see how that logic doesn't work when attributed to stuff you thoroughly support? The plus here is that the people in the city... the voters can pull together and go after that stuff if it abused. That wouldn't be the case if the military was doing it.

Anyways, why am I still replying to this? Denny is right, it's a sickness. I'm going to go eat some fried foods now...

Wally you rascal! Now you have me craving thinly sliced eggplant lightly floured and fried in olive oil and I don't have any eggplant and I have already had dinner!

 

[gmcman355]

The one important part you left out is operate like a military assault rifle. I'm all for the police being able to use the force needed and then some against those who deserve it. It keeps being repeated that there is a need for no knocks due to the danger of the criminals and there is no doubt that the danger exists. However in the course of making it safer for the officers involved would some time spent watching a house to ensure the least number of bad guys inside not be smart? Which in turn would almost eliminate the instance of wrong address raids. Also for the gentleman who questioned why someone would start shooting even though it is a swat team what would your response be to your door being kicked in in the middle of the night regardless of what was being yelled between flash bangs. I'm quite sure I'm not a felon and also quite sure I'm not good enough to decipher real swat from fake swat costume at 2a.m. and refuse to bet my kids life that all will be ok due to a wrong address

 

[Dauvis]

If it looks like a military assault rifle, fires the same round as a military assault rifle, when what else could it be? Can you see how that logic doesn't work when attributed to stuff you thoroughly support? The plus here is that the people in the city... the voters can pull together and go after that stuff if it abused. That wouldn't be the case if the military was doing it.

Anyways, why am I still replying to this? Denny is right, it's a sickness. I'm going to go eat some fried foods now...

If the cops are going into situation where they know there are military style weapons, heck yeah, call in the SWAT (FYI, military style weapons are not first choice of gangbangers). Those cases are not getting the criticism. It is sending in a SWAT team to arrest someone who sold an ounce of Mary Jane to an informant (link) or someone who is distributing it (link). Let's not forget about that extremely dangerous orphaned deer. These are the cases getting the criticism.

 

[Mokkie]

How do you expect someone to enforce the law? When they cant even follow the law?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

How do you expect someone to enforce the law? When they cant even follow the law?

What law aren't "they" following?

 

[JMoses]

It still amazes me that you were able to complete your years on the job without making one single mistake or doing anything that pissed someone off.

I'd be interested in knowing what his fellow officers thought of him....not much I'd say.

 

[Lebowski]

On the subject of the 'militarization of police', I support it. Well, in a sense. If our police officers are going to dress and act like they're in the military we should use them that way. Go battle gangs in cities and get in shootouts. May lose a few good men, but like any war that can be expected. You've got the best training our tax dollars can buy, and you're just fighting some no-good thugs. That'd actually do some good and make cities a safer place to live. I'd love to see this happen in Chicago, Detroit, LA, etc. I'd rather read stories like that as opposed to busting down doors to homes where you think someone bad is, instead of cleaning up areas where you know bad people are.

^^ I'm kind of joking, kind of serious. :P


Obviously there would be justifiably causes of utilizing SWAT to serve a warrant, better safe than sorry. But I've seen too many articles that suggest it's abused far too often. Mishaps that result in entering the wrong home, killing an innocent individual or even an animal while in the wrong home should be enough to force you to rethink strategy. "Oh gosh, we really, REALLY f*$^#d up this time..." Hell, entering the wrong home could get you killed, probably more so than entering the right home. Think of what you would do if you hear your door get kicked in unexpectedly. You go for the gun. Now, as a cop, what do you do when you enter a home and someone has a gun in there hand? Woops, sorry guy. Looks like we were looking for apartment 4B on Spring Ave, not apartment 4B on Summer Street. I hope you were looking to lose weight because me and my fellow officers just filled you full of holes.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I am curious as to why you would start shooting? One can safely assume that a SWAT raid on your place is going to be the police. Would you start shooting just because they might be or where at the wrong place?

Oh but wait , times have changed !!!! Criminals are known to dress up like the "good guys" nowadays to gain entry into your house .

 

[wally05]

Wally you rascal! Now you have me craving thinly sliced eggplant lightly floured and fried in olive oil and I don't have any eggplant and I have already had dinner!

Now THAT is good stuff. I hit up the fried veggie place at the state fair... DELICIOUS! I'm a sucker for fried foods.