How to serve a warrant: 1972 versus today

[2ADMNLOVER]

All of this nonsense about how times have changed is BS , plain and simple . People haven't changed one bit since there's been people .

Hell even according to FBI statistics more people are killed every year with fists , clubs and hammers than with firearms .

What's this garbage about walking up to a nut job's door ? Medics do it every day without soldier style weapons , gear and escort .

If the average joe had automatic weapons killing cops daily , I could see the weapons , armor and bearcat type vehicles as being a necessity but we know that isn't happening so what are the LEO's gearing up for ?

 

[wally05]

All of this nonsense about how times have changed is BS , plain and simple . People haven't changed one bit since there's been people .

Hell even according to FBI statistics more people are killed every year with fists , clubs and hammers than with firearms .

What's this garbage about walking up to a nut job's door ? Medics do it every day without soldier style weapons , gear and escort .

If the average joe had automatic weapons killing cops daily , I could see the weapons , armor and bearcat type vehicles as being a necessity but we know that isn't happening so what are the LEO's gearing up for ?

Sigh*.... yeah, okay.

 

[jbombelli]

Come on, everybody. We all know 50 years ago everyone lived in peace and harmony, nobody killed one another, everyone had respect for the law AND the police. Crime was nearly non-existent back then, and those few criminals there were NEVER fought against the police. Ever. They always just sighed, and came out with their hands up when told to. And they were all at least 25 years old before they ever committed their first crime.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

What's this garbage about walking up to a nut job's door ? Medics do it every day without soldier style weapons , gear and escort .

Not in Indy they don't. Half of the dispatched runs on late shift are to assist FD or EMS. Any hint of possible trouble and they won't come close to the scene until the police get there.

 

[wally05]

Not in Indy they don't. Half of the dispatched runs on late shift are to assist FD or EMS. Any hint of possible trouble and they won't come close to the scene until the police get there.

+1. The scene is cleared for FD/EMS.

 

[Gabriel]

Not in Indy they don't. Half of the dispatched runs on late shift are to assist FD or EMS. Any hint of possible trouble and they won't come close to the scene until the police get there.

That is the same here.

 

[j706]

That is the same here.

And here.

 

[drillsgt]

Not in Indy they don't. Half of the dispatched runs on late shift are to assist FD or EMS. Any hint of possible trouble and they won't come close to the scene until the police get there.

Sounds like EMS needs to carry, then they don't have to keep bothering you guys

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Sounds like EMS needs to carry, then they don't have to keep bothering you guys

I didn't say they were bothering me. If they want to carry, they need to take that up with their administrators.

 

[vitamink]

Article was gone, i didn't get to read it.

 

[j706]

Sounds like EMS needs to carry, then they don't have to keep bothering you guys

Oh i would be just fine with that.

 

[Dead Duck]

Not in Indy they don't. Half of the dispatched runs on late shift are to assist FD or EMS. Any hint of possible trouble and they won't come close to the scene until the police get there.

That was the procedure in the last state I was in. (far far away)
All departments were told to hold back at the "Staging Area" until the PD cleared the scene. Especially with those DVs.
They get pretty passionate about their wife beating.



The cops now days do Way more than they ever did in the past. You yesteryear old farts think you had it bad then? You ain't seen nothin.
The populous has changed, the cities have changed, the criminals have changed and there's more of them, the children's upbringing has changed (very important one) and not to mention the lack of God in homes, lawsuits and lawyers have changed and now run the world.

And damn it, the police have changed and grown larger and that's a good thing. And with that, the more cops = the more departmental problems, drama, politics, drama and some more collateral damage. Did I mention drama?
Overall, times have changed and the police forces have changed for the better. Overkill is not always a bad thing.
Andy and Barney wouldn't last an hour in today's streets.

Just watch any police show today. They blows the doors off "Adam 12".
Reed and Malloy were chumps back then compared to LA now.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I didn't say they were bothering me. If they want to carry, they need to take that up with their administrators.

Nope. Won't help. If I get called to a school for a teacher having a heart attack or a kid who got dropped on his head in the locker room (and I've had both of those calls,) I can't even leave my pistol in the ambulance without committing a felony, to say nothing of carrying it with me. Present law only exempts LEOs and those with permission derived from a school board.

We need the laws to change. That said, I do NOT want a law exempting EMS and/or FD the same as LEOs. I want a law saying if you're carrying legally, there is nowhere in the state other than a penal facility or locked psychiatric facility where you can't carry, no matter who you are. Obviously, that will not happen, as there are federal facilities where state law is overruled, and equally obviously, there are enough dumbasses out there that feel that making a rule is the same as actually protecting someone.

Here's the question I have, though: If I screw up at work, I expect that my employer may be named in a lawsuit due to the "deep pockets" theory, however I also expect that it's possible I may be named personally. So why is this doctrine of qualified immunity applicable to LE? That is, if you kick down the wrong door and give the family dog a heart attack or shoot grandma or whatever, your actions have been negligent and are IMHO, indefensible, yet we all know the stories of how that QI kicks in and the officer accused of so doing gets a merit hearing at most and usually walks out of it with his gun in hand.

To me, this makes no sense. Can someone, preferably LE, explain to me why "qualified immunity" is ever a factor in these cases? (I'm not looking for "because that's how the legislature wrote it", BTW; I'm looking for a real reason.)

Thanks and stay safe out there, guys.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

To me, this makes no sense. Can someone, preferably LE, explain to me why "qualified immunity" is ever a factor in these cases? (I'm not looking for "because that's how the legislature wrote it", BTW; I'm looking for a real reason.)

I honestly have no idea. That has been around a lot longer than I have.

 

[vitamink]

Nope. Won't help. If I get called to a school for a teacher having a heart attack or a kid who got dropped on his head in the locker room (and I've had both of those calls,) I can't even leave my pistol in the ambulance without committing a felony, to say nothing of carrying it with me. Present law only exempts LEOs and those with permission derived from a school board.

We need the laws to change. That said, I do NOT want a law exempting EMS and/or FD the same as LEOs. I want a law saying if you're carrying legally, there is nowhere in the state other than a penal facility or locked psychiatric facility where you can't carry, no matter who you are. Obviously, that will not happen, as there are federal facilities where state law is overruled, and equally obviously, there are enough dumbasses out there that feel that making a rule is the same as actually protecting someone.

Here's the question I have, though: If I screw up at work, I expect that my employer may be named in a lawsuit due to the "deep pockets" theory, however I also expect that it's possible I may be named personally. So why is this doctrine of qualified immunity applicable to LE? That is, if you kick down the wrong door and give the family dog a heart attack or shoot grandma or whatever, your actions have been negligent and are IMHO, indefensible, yet we all know the stories of how that QI kicks in and the officer accused of so doing gets a merit hearing at most and usually walks out of it with his gun in hand.

To me, this makes no sense. Can someone, preferably LE, explain to me why "qualified immunity" is ever a factor in these cases? (I'm not looking for "because that's how the legislature wrote it", BTW; I'm looking for a real reason.)

Thanks and stay safe out there, guys.

Blessings,
Bill

Qualified immunity protects officers from the 100's of lawsuits they'd receive each year if they didn't have it in place. You only get sued if you screw up. Cops get sued for doing the right thing more often than they get sued for doing the wrong thing. Here is an example of a recent case here in indy.

A cop is diligently patrolling his beat and sees a very bad individual whom he's locked up 20+ times before...we'll call him gary. Gary is attempting to break into a car that is not his own. Gary has a history of drug use and violence. The cop knows that gary doesn't own a car and knows that gary doesn't usually spontaneously do the robot while 1/2 naked in a parking lot, so the cop reasonably assumes that criminal activity is afoot. As the cop approaches gary, who has now successfully broken a car window, gary assumes a "kung fu" stance and starts barking. The two engage in a very odd fight that ends with gary in handcuffs. Medics are called as Gary's pupils are the size of saucers and again he's half naked. Gary goes to the hospital's jail for criminal mischief (breaking into a car) and resisting until he's detoxed then he moves to big boy jail.

No one hears this story though...what the news prints is this:

Westside man sues police for brutality after being beaten while having a medical issue. Cops see these bull**** lawsuits all the time...hell we all see them posted frequently on here. In this particular case they couldn't find the owner of the car...no victim/no crime. So that gets thrown out. The lawsuit leaves out all that information and says that a cop was going down the road sees a man, beats his ass, and calls for a medic because he needs to go to the hospital. The cop has qualified immunity as what he thought he was doing was right...and it was. That doesn't mean that the deep pocket doctrine wasn't in full effect. The man can (and did) still sue the department, however he couldn't sue the officer as an individual.

BTW there were 3 people on the scene and in the report. The cop, and 2 medics who said he needed to go to the hospital as whatever drug he was on was causing him to act crazy. The people who were listed in the lawsuit included the officer, his sgt, his lt, his capt, and the chief of police. The medics were never mentioned even though they were there, and 4 other people were mentioned even though they were not.

 

[wally05]

Qualified immunity protects officers from the 100's of lawsuits they'd receive each year if they didn't have it in place. You only get sued if you screw up. Cops get sued for doing the right thing more often than they get sued for doing the wrong thing. Here is an example of a recent case here in indy.

A cop is diligently patrolling his beat and sees a very bad individual whom he's locked up 20+ times before...we'll call him gary. Gary is attempting to break into a car that is not his own. Gary has a history of drug use and violence. The cop knows that gary doesn't own a car and knows that gary doesn't usually spontaneously do the robot while 1/2 naked in a parking lot, so the cop reasonably assumes that criminal activity is afoot. As the cop approaches gary, who has now successfully broken a car window, gary assumes a "kung fu" stance and starts barking. The two engage in a very odd fight that ends with gary in handcuffs. Medics are called as Gary's pupils are the size of saucers and again he's half naked. Gary goes to the hospital's jail for criminal mischief (breaking into a car) and resisting until he's detoxed then he moves to big boy jail.

No one hears this story though...what the news prints is this:

Westside man sues police for brutality after being beaten while having a medical issue. Cops see these bull**** lawsuits all the time...hell we all see them posted frequently on here. In this particular case they couldn't find the owner of the car...no victim/no crime. So that gets thrown out. The lawsuit leaves out all that information and says that a cop was going down the road sees a man, beats his ass, and calls for a medic because he needs to go to the hospital. The cop has qualified immunity as what he thought he was doing was right...and it was. That doesn't mean that the deep pocket doctrine wasn't in full effect. The man can (and did) still sue the department, however he couldn't sue the officer as an individual.

BTW there were 3 people on the scene and in the report. The cop, and 2 medics who said he needed to go to the hospital as whatever drug he was on was causing him to act crazy. The people who were listed in the lawsuit included the officer, his sgt, his lt, his capt, and the chief of police. The medics were never mentioned even though they were there, and 4 other people were mentioned even though they were not.

Dead on. Hell, it's funny to see how many new guys at the academy with less than a year on were already named in civil suits. If you're doing your job and making contacts, chances are you're going to be sued sometime in your career. It happens.

 

[Denny347]

Nothing like getting sued in Federal Court for doing everything 100% legal/legit. It's an exhausting process that takes place over the course of years. I've had 2 so far with a couple more in local court. None of which I did anything wrong. The city spends MILLIONS on these BS cases every year.

 

[jbombelli]

[video=youtube;_g3aMkIsCyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g3aMkIsCyM[/video]

 

[vitamink]

LOL

 

[cosermann]

FYI - An article along similar lines by John Stossel today:

Beware warrior cops | Fox News

Stossel doesn’t mention it, but no-knock raids have also increased from 3,000 in 1981 to 50,000 in 2005 [1]

Craziness.

[1] No-knock warrant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia