How do you feel about the Tea Party Movement?

[tyler34]

OMG. Are some of you people SERIOUS??????? What is this I'm hearing on here? Do you all just want to sit back and wait for them to come take you away and throw you in an interim camp or WHAT???? Some of you talk like it's HOPELESS!!!!! You people have no faith. None whatsoever in this Country at all. You have written off the American people just as the Fed Gov has done. How sad is that? You preach Freedom and Liberty and all the nice things that go with it, but you sit here and say that the movement is useless. I believe I read a few times that "It's like locking the barn after the horses have already ran out". I think you need to take a closer look my friends. Or are you just THAT LAZY????

It's not about just taxes. Yes, taxes are run rampant. Forget about anything anyone says about FairTax.org. It's a crappy idea. Yes I said it. But you tell me how things are suppose to change when you just want to sit back shaking your heads with your eyes shut screaming "NO NO NO NO IT WONT WORK! IT CANT! I CANT HELP YOU CAUSE IT"S USELESS!!!!"??????????

You can sit there and say that this is a useless effort. obamatard can call us IDIOTIC! THAT SHOWS HE FEARS US!!!!!!!!!!!! HHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOO! If he's calling us out by NAME in documents to the Press Secretary, don't you think that's saying something??????? Also, don't you think if it was suppose to be a private note, they would have taken care to not let it leak??

So you will just sit there on your hands and say, nah, I'll wait for something better to come along. Or, I'll just sit here until SHTF and I get to shoot someone. Is that your BEST excuse or is it just laziness? That's right. I'm calling you people out. If you think the Tea Parties are heading in the wrong direction, join us and help lead us. It is grassroots after all. We have no Political Party leading us. Or are you too lazy and complacent to at least TRY and make a difference???? I think that's exactly what it is.

Let me guess. You're sitting there saying "Well, I'm involved in this and this and this, I don't have time for this." Or maybe you're saying "It's a waste of time. They'll never make a difference. Besides, why should I join them? They're doomed to failure anyway, so I'll just sit here while they actually TRY SOMETHING..."

Now seriously people. I haven't seen one thing yet that is a compelling arguement why you SHOULDN'T join up and help us. It's early enough to be molded into a real movement for YOUR rights. That's our goal. Repeal bad laws, repeal bad taxes, repeal bad politicians. How can you NOT support that?

Look, I'm sorry if this hits the wrong nerve with people, but I've been without a computer all weekend, I've been up 36 hours fixing it, I get it running, then I read all this. I'm highly dissappointed in this forum.

You all talk so highly about preserving and fighting for freedom, but when people give you the chance, we're lucky if half of you actually write and send a letter to Washington. Let's stop making excuses and DO something. Or are you just to lazy to DO SOMETHING?


On a side note, the poll, if true says a lot. Unfortunately, I don't recall meeting 37 INGOers at the July 4th Tea Party and I was sticking out like a sore thumb in the rain with my INGO Tact hat on. I met MAYBE 4 people from here, but I certainly increased our membership/view audience by about 30 people while there.

(EDIT: I originally said we didn't have leadership. THis isn't really true. We have a bunch of volunteers that have organized into a committee and many small groups that follow the main body all over the state. But again, we are not affiliated with any political party. We are Dems, Repubs, Liberits, Independents, and everything in between. We have leadership, but it's more responsive to the People than any other organization out there.)

well I'm sorry I'm not you and uber proactive in this "cause", I just don't like it when people tell me how I need to bring about change, if anything it makes me go the other way. were all adults here who make our own choice as to what we want to do and if it ruffles your feathers theres nothing I can do about that, just because you don't think we are doing anything doesn't mean we aren't

 

[SavageEagle]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread prior to posting. However, I will just put my personal thoughts out there for you.

Do I agree with the movement? Yes.
Do I agree with the necessity of change in America? Yes
Do I feel like it will change what needs to change? No.

The problem is this is not a small colony of 13. This is a large, slothful nation of 50. The people are too many that do not care. For every one of you, there are ten thousand of them. It's not a possible battle yet. Yet.

There will be a wake up call, hopefully, and people will understand the necessity your message. My message. Our message is the same. Do I go to rallies that are snuffed by the press? Do I wear my political affiliation on my sleeve? No, I don't. But do I engage in conversation, discussion, or exercise my freedoms? Yes. You ask people who know me, they know what I stand for. You ask me something, I will tell you.

Right now, though, you are an extremist. I don't mean that as a slander, but that is what the government views you as. You are a political extremist and will be handled as such until this nation wakes up. Your method is one of many. People know you, you're that guy with the 'Don't Tread on Me' bumper sticker, shirt, flags. Vocal and proud of your opinions. That can stir others to the cause, and that is good. It is good to be prideful and vocal. But it can also deter earnest conversation by those who might be swayed.

I am just a person with an opinion. The government doesn't flag me as crazy extremist. I'm just average Joe. But I can talk to those people who don't care, or care but not enough. Those people that were persuaded to vote for something without reason, and perhaps get them thinking.

I applaud the fact that you are there from the beginning. And when the revolution, peaceful preferably, occurs in 2012 and someone new was voted in and the reason is because of all the public outcry. You can be the man that says you were there for it all. I will simply be the man that did my little part in my little part.

THis too I can respect. I don't expect that this movement will be the one to change the course of government. That's not my goal in this organization.

My personal goal here is to wake up as many people as possible through this movement. The internet is one thing. But too many people don't trust it. So when you see 2000 people standing in the rain listening to the reading of the Declaration of Independence, it makes you stop and take notice, like so many people who were just walking the canal that day while our rally was going on.

I don't want to see anyone become a martyr for a revolution. I also hope to avoid this. I don't think that this movement will stop that, but I also don't think this movement is the be all end all of the evil in this Country. I see revolution as inevitable. But this is one great way of waking up the people to see that they are not alone and what is really going on in this Country.

 

[jeremy]

I agree with term limits. I can also agree with politicians should be veterans or business owners. With limitations of course.

What I feel very strongly against is restricting other's right to vote. What you described above sounds more like 16th Century Europe. Dictators and evil arose and reigned because of this very philosophy. It's the ultimate power grab from the people and I sorely hope you rethink your position on this and study a little more history on the very concept.

Let me start with an insult to you since you ended yours with an insult at me. I have studied quite a lot of world history. You may want to read up a little on your history, plus you may want to read a little Greek philosophy as well.
There is a huge difference between restricting ones right to vote and having a vetting process. If you are not willing to make a commitment to the country that you live in then why should you have the same rights as someone who has. There is a reason that the founders had a vetting process in the original language of The Constitution.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I keep looking and looking, but the only thing I can find about these Tea Parties is that people are complaining about too much spending. I don't see any form of alternative (other than don't spend so much). I sick of listening to people complain with no alternatives proposed.

That is the main alternative and the logical one...spend less.
Not sure what you are looking for???

 

[SavageEagle]

well I'm sorry I'm not you and uber proactive in this "cause", I just don't like it when people tell me how I need to bring about change, if anything it makes me go the other way. were all adults here who make our own choice as to what we want to do and if it ruffles your feathers theres nothing I can do about that, just because you don't think we are doing anything doesn't mean we aren't

I understand this, but I also didn't say that you guys aren't doing anything at all, either. I know a few people ARE doing stuff, but most people are not. 4800 members and how many have voted or even POSTED anything? That's saying a lot.

 

[Steelman]

Let me start with an insult to you since you ended yours with an insult at me. I have studied quite a lot of world history. You may want to read up a little on your history, plus you may want to read a little Greek philosophy as well.
There is a huge difference between restricting ones right to vote and having a vetting process. If you are not willing to make a commitment to the country that you live in then why should you have the same rights as someone who has. There is a reason that the founders had a vetting process in the original language of The Constitution.

There´s a HUGE difference between not being committed to your country and not being committed to your government. Can you see the difference?

 

[SavageEagle]

Let me start with an insult to you since you ended yours with an insult at me. I have studied quite a lot of world history. You may want to read up a little on your history, plus you may want to read a little Greek philosophy as well.
There is a huge difference between restricting ones right to vote and having a vetting process. If you are not willing to make a commitment to the country that you live in then why should you have the same rights as someone who has. There is a reason that the founders had a vetting process in the original language of The Constitution.

I did not mean it as an insult. I thought I was being polite. Either way, I have read much history. Maybe not so much greek philosophy, but I understand some of it. A vetting process isn't so much from what I remember in the Constitution. Maybe you could point this out to me. Regardless, a vetting process is restricting someone's right to vote, isn't it? Of course it is. But if you are going to restrict a CITIZENs right to vote, then it had better be a damn good reason. There are enough people who don't already vote in this Country, upwards of close to half the people legally allowed to vote do not do so. And you wish to restrict that number farther? How is that helpful? What happens when only 10% of the Country becomes "eligible" to vote? That's no longer a republic.

There´s a HUGE difference between not being committed to your country and not being committed to your government. Can you see the difference?

Meh, pretty much.

 

[jeremy]

Yes Steelman I can see the difference.
I am also aware of the relationship that they share to each other.

Not being committed to your Country tends to lead to to not being committed to your government. Can you see the danger here also?

 

[bigus_D]

That is the main alternative and the logical one...spend less.
Not sure what you are looking for???

Spend less on what? How would the government continue to provide services? Which services?

How about education?

How about social security?

How about food stamps?

How about section 8 renters?

How about unemployeement?

How about national security?

How about highway construction?

How about water quality?

These are issues. "Spending too much", is not an issue that I can get on board against. Spending too much on education... maybe. Spending too much on food stamps... maybe. Just plain "spending too much" is far too broad a platform. It is like saying "demcrats are stupid" or "i hate liberals." Nobody fits 100% inside a political box, and to lay a blanket statement out there for an entire "movement" doesn't mean anything to me.

I do not believe that shutting down all government services would provide an improved society. If this is the goal of the "tea parties", then I hope it fails. If it is the goal of the tea parties to address specific issues in a manner that would result in lower spending, then I may find myself getting on board. I am still hoping to figure out what this is all about.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Spend less on what? How would the government continue to provide services? Which services?

How about education?

How about social security?

How about food stamps?

How about section 8 renters?

How about unemployeement?

How about national security?

How about highway construction?

How about water quality?

These are issues. "Spending too much", is not an issue that I can get on board against. Spending too much on education... maybe. Spending too much on food stamps... maybe. Just plain "spending too much" is far too broad a platform. It is like saying "demcrats are stupid" or "i hate liberals." Nobody fits 100% inside a political box, and to lay a blanket statement out there for an entire "movement" doesn't mean anything to me.

I do not believe that shutting down all government services would provide an improved society. If this is the goal of the "tea parties", then I hope it fails. If it is the goal of the tea parties to address specific issues in a manner that would result in lower spending, then I may find myself getting on board. I am still hoping to figure out what this is all about.

Overall too much government spending...

If you look at what the government was originally setup to support, those spending plans should be evaluated and adjusted as needed, but what we have now is spending on items that were not setup for the government to spend money on in the first place.
Why is the government subsidizing anything? Why is the government involved in private companies?

 

[SavageEagle]

Spend less on what? How would the government continue to provide services? Which services? Government only has obligations for very few things. Most services and agencies that are federally run are more wasteful and unnecessary than this Country as a whole can handle or fund.

How about education? State and local taxes that I"m more than willing to pay. Education needs a serious overhaul on how it's run first.

How about social security? Bad idea in the first place. Those who've paid into continue to do so and recieve benefits. The next generation of taxes payers need a better system and should be dissallowed from paying into the system. If it runs out, it runs out.

How about food stamps? Good program, but needs an overhaul. Too many people can scam the system.

How about section 8 renters? Another good program but needs to be more strict as well.

How about unemployeement? Not government funded.

How about national security? This is the main reason for the Fed Gov.

How about highway construction? State and local taxes only please. The Federal Gov should only fund Interstates where necessary.

How about water quality? Air quality, soil quality too. These should be funded by the people but not through government.

These are issues. "Spending too much", is not an issue that I can get on board against. Spending too much on education... maybe. Spending too much on food stamps... maybe. Just plain "spending too much" is far too broad a platform. It is like saying "demcrats are stupid" or "i hate liberals." Nobody fits 100% inside a political box, and to lay a blanket statement out there for an entire "movement" doesn't mean anything to me.

I do not believe that shutting down all government services would provide an improved society. If this is the goal of the "tea parties", then I hope it fails. If it is the goal of the tea parties to address specific issues in a manner that would result in lower spending, then I may find myself getting on board. I am still hoping to figure out what this is all about.

I understand your concern on less spending. It needs serious debate. You're right, people need to narrow the brush they paint people with. I will try to be more careful about that.

I do not believe in total anarchy either. Save for during revolution, but there must be a system of order regardless. The goal of the Tea Party's is not to induce total anarchy. I will admit that we are lacking a good alternitive plan, but this is why we need the support of the people and their input as there needs to be much debate about my responses above highlighted in blue.

 

[ruger17hmr]

First, I've not heard that you were at any Tea Party. Good if you've been to one. Second, again, if my post insulted you because I said lazy, maybe you should ask yourself why you were so offended? If you have a guilty conscience maybe? Or maybe you feel guilty that you COULDN"T come? If it's the latter then I will apologize because maybe you had no other choice but to NOT come. Maybe you had a family thing out of state. Even then, there was sure to be some in the state you visited. They were all over this state.

As for your remarks about me getting food stamps, that doesn't bother me a bit. At least I've had jobs, I've PAID into the system, and I'm not some low life who's never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm a very hard worker and I WANT a job. If that makes me a bad person then that makes everyone on this board without a job a bad person.

I have plenty of credibility. Just maybe not in your eyes. Regardless...

If the fact that one insignificant person who has bad cred in your eyes will deter you from helping an organization of many like-minded (to you) people, you have far greater issues than anyone can really help you with. You just have to help yourself first. I'm just involved with this group. I'm not the main person by any stretch of the imagination.

At least I have the balls to be open about my life when far too many people are scared to do so.

The most important issue here is the condition of economy. If the economy recovers, there will be no more squabbling, critisizing, and finger pointing. I ask again where were all the voices of enlightenment while things were rosy (on the surface anyway) for the past 5 or 6 years up until the beginning of market meltdown. Unfortunately, it took the media bull horning to awake the general population to realize the country is in deep trouble., the very media you guys so despise.

The wheel was in motion to bankrupt the country behind the ever growing stock market during the past decade, but no one cared then. No one raised a single red flag! No one wanted to crash the party of life time. I say again, this is the face of humanity. I can gurantee you that if the economy recovers( it will take a miracle, but one can hope), all the nasty accusations and finger pointing will cease to exist.

So, what do we do while the country is in bad shape, critisize and undermine the very public officials we ourselves elected. There is no doubt they are less interested in public's well being than profitting from the misery of the people, but we are stuck with them until the re-election.
We were not satisfied with the Bush adm., so we replaced him with the Obama and his adm. Less than a year under Obama's leadership, we are already sick and tired of his policies. What is the next step? Does anyone know? Or, are we just dancing to the tune of the so called experts?

I am not an expert, but I know one thing, if we were to change the course of history, we have to unite as one. We have to have a voice of one to have any kind of impact.

Something to think about...

 

[SavageEagle]

The most important issue here is the condition of economy. If the economy recovers, there will be no more squabbling, critisizing, and finger pointing. I ask again where were all the voices of enlightenment while things were rosy (on the surface anyway) for the past 5 or 6 years up until the beginning of market meltdown. Unfortunately, it took the media bull horning to awake the general population to realize the country is in deep trouble., the very media you guys so despise.

The wheel was in motion to bankrupt the country behind the ever growing stock market during the past decade, but no one cared then. No one raised a single red flag! No one wanted to crash the party of life time. I say again, this is the face of humanity. I can gurantee you that if the economy recovers( it will take a miracle, but one can hope), all the nasty accusations and finger pointing will cease to exist.

So, what do we do while the country is in bad shape, critisize and undermine the very public officials we ourselves elected. There is no doubt they are less interested in public's well being than profitting from the misery of the people, but we are stuck with them until the re-election.
We were not satisfied with the Bush adm., so we replaced him with the Obama and his adm. Less than a year under Obama's leadership, we are already sick and tired of his policies. What is the next step? Does anyone know? Or, are we just dancing to the tune of the so called experts?

I am not an expert, but I know one thing, if we were to change the course of history, we have to unite as one. We have to have a voice of one to have any impact.

Something to think about...

I'm not sure where you get this "We elected these guys" from but I didn't cast a vote for any person now in office. My votes went to those who lost.

Also, I've known for years, even before 9/11 where this Country was heading. Not exactly where, but the general direction. The web bubble was the first indication of the grander scheme. to me at least. I was called a tinfoil boy for the longest time. Guess I was somewhat right. Only time will tell now.

 

[ruger17hmr]

I'm not sure where you get this "We elected these guys" from but I didn't cast a vote for any person now in office. My votes went to those who lost.

Also, I've known for years, even before 9/11 where this Country was heading. Not exactly where, but the general direction. The web bubble was the first indication of the grander scheme. to me at least. I was called a tinfoil boy for the longest time. Guess I was somewhat right. Only time will tell now.

Savage, my comment is not directed to you.
It was for all of us, including me, for I was one of the general population who stood by while the country is getting bankrupt.

 

[SavageEagle]

Savage, my comment is not directed to you.
It was for all of us, including me, for I was one of the general population who stood by while the country is getting bankrupt.

Sorry. I should go back to reinstalling everything! I hate this part. And resetting settings. That's even worse. Trying to recall how everything was setup and if you still have the applications to do so...

 

[SirRealism]

The most important issue here is the condition of economy. If the economy recovers, there will be no more squabbling, critisizing, and finger pointing. I ask again where were all the voices of enlightenment while things were rosy (on the surface anyway) for the past 5 or 6 years up until the beginning of market meltdown. Unfortunately, it took the media bull horning to awake the general population to realize the country is in deep trouble., the very media you guys so despise.

[snip]

So, what do we do while the country is in bad shape, critisize and undermine the very public officials we ourselves elected. There is no doubt they are less interested in public's well being than profitting from the misery of the people, but we are stuck with them until the re-election.
We were not satisfied with the Bush adm., so we replaced him with the Obama and his adm. Less than a year under Obama's leadership, we are already sick and tired of his policies. What is the next step? Does anyone know? Or, are we just dancing to the tune of the so called experts?

I am not an expert, but I know one thing, if we were to change the course of history, we have to unite as one. We have to have a voice of one to have any impact.

Something to think about...

Very true. During that time, I was complaining to lots of people about the amount of spending, but I didn't know how to act, apart from pulling the lever. Most of us have always understood that:

1. Government produces nothing;
2. Government does not create jobs;
3. Government is the poorest imaginable steward of money;
4. There is no such thing as free;
5. Redistribution from the producers to the non-producers is unjust and merely weakens the entire system.

During W's presidency, libs and moderates actually yelled "you're cutting programs" when Bush proposed merely to decrease the increases. How ludicrous.

Unfortunately, it wasn't until our current crisis came about that the sounding boards began to undulate. Until that point, we were in a vacuum.... a vacuum created by laziness, over-abundance, and apathy.

The one most important thing I've learned in the past two years is that, despite my insistence that we were headed in down the wrong path toward an unsustainable society, it was all just talk. I was apathetic in that I was not actively participating.

I've changed that now, because I realize my words were for naught.

 

[bigus_D]

How about unemployeement? Not government funded.

Nope... not government funded... it is funded by taxes paid by employers. wait... not governement funded but funded by taxes. I'm confused. Wait... I'm not confused.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Nope... not government funded... it is funded by taxes paid by employers. wait... not government funded but funded by taxes. I'm confused. Wait... I'm not confused.

Use to not be funded by the government, but in recent months, many states are getting additional funding to cover the drain that it has placed on these select states because of the high rate of unemployment...and Indiana is one of the states getting funding from the fed for this.

 

[SavageEagle]

Use to not be funded by the government, but in recent months, many states are getting additional funding to cover the drain that it has placed on these select states because of the high rate of unemployment...and Indiana is one of the states getting funding from the fed for this.

Ok well then Big_d's post makes sense now. In that case, it's obvious, the Gov shouldn't be doing ANY funding to it.

If the company can't pay for the unemployment they shouldn't have to be mandated by LAW to pay a certain percentage. 5% of your paycheck should be better than nothing at all if you no longer have a job. Do what the rest of us do. Find someone who needs some side work done than can pay for it. Lawns, babysitting, some skill you have put it to work freelance. That's what I'm doing while my wife works. I don't get a lot of money but at least I'm helping to sustain my family and provide for them and not sitting around JUST looking for regular work. Don't get me wrong, it's good to be looking for a job, but if you can possibly make money some other way, why not do it? Some people just can't and that's ok. "Can't" is different from "won't".

I've never recieved unemployment in my life. Before I got with my wife and had kids, I'd never recieved ANY government money. I hate that I do now and am diligently working to not ever have to again.

 

[bigus_D]

Use to not be funded by the government, but in recent months, many states are getting additional funding to cover the drain that it has placed on these select states because of the high rate of unemployment...and Indiana is one of the states getting funding from the fed for this.

sorry for the slight thread jack... but unemployement is funded by taxes. taxes paid by employers to the government. I'm not making a distinction between state and federal government because I didn't think the tea parties were making such a distinction.

Policy Basics: Introduction to Unemployment Insurance — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities


The unemployment insurance system is funded by taxes paid by employers on behalf of their employees. Most of these taxes are collected by state governments, but some are collected by the federal government. While both the federal and state taxes are technically paid by employers (although in a few states, the employee pays part of the state tax), economists generally regard the tax as falling on employees. The theory behind this is that the dollars employers use to pay the tax are part of overall compensation costs, and would otherwise have gone into employees’ paychecks.
The federal tax is set by the Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA), and is equal to 0.8 percent of the first $7,000 paid annually to each employee. This tax is regressive; since most workers earn more than $7,000 per year, most workers are effectively paying the same flat tax of $56 per year regardless of income. The percentage of overall wages paid in FUTA taxes on behalf of high-wage workers is therefore much lower than for low-wage workers.
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