Homeless man shot to death by police while “illegally camping” in NM foothills

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Rambone and Kirk do it for fun, but nobody wins on this one. Camper still dead, cops left to live the rest of their lives knowing they should ve done it differently, us vs them mentality perpetuated, losers all the way around.

 

[public servant]

This is where I do not understand the argument of needing to flashbang him as he is walking down. In the video he is clearly giving up and coming down. Regardless of what was said in the 3+hrs prior, the situation appeared to be coming to an end. He is on rocky terrain and the officers didn't appear to be in a position to immediately grab him and put the cuffs on...so why throw the flashbang?

If they got him down to where the land was flat it would seem to me that would be the easier place to make the arrest...no?

Obviously we are all monday morning QBing this thing but it still doesn't make any sense to me the escalate a (seemingly) de-escalating situation.

The man still had access to deadly weapons he previously threatened to use. Level ground not only makes it easier to handcuff someone, it also makes it easier to fight.

The flash bang is designed to disorientate. It momentarily scrambles you mental and physical ability to focus. If you cannot focus, you cannot fight.

 

[KLB]

I've read multiple articles. You should try it.

I'll take the video of the event over an article written about it any day. Maybe you should try that.

 

[steveh_131]

The flash bang is designed to disorientate. It momentarily scrambles you mental and physical ability to focus. If you cannot focus, you cannot fight.

Yes. Disorient and scare him so that he instinctively grabs for a weapon. Then you get to shoot him. Win win amirite

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The flashbang was attempt to distract him so they could arrest him, it was not self-defense.

I agree with you that Boyd did commit a crime and that the police officers were acting well within the "RULE OF LAW" when they "apprehended" him. I would not say that the officers committed a crime, although I would have to take the word of a supervisor to say that they were acting within department policy.

I am saying that there are other police officers (men who are equally cognizant of the Rules of both Law and Man and who recognize the relative importance of both) and also perhaps more adept and patient men who could have 'apprehended" Boyd without killing him.

 

[public servant]

Yes. Disorient and scare him so that he instinctively grabs for a weapon. Then you get to shoot him. Win win amirite

Speaking of a shallow sea of obvious intellectuals...

 

[saberstar]

What I saw in the video was a man cooperating and giving up. A man getting shot with a Taser pistol and what seems like 2 seconds later getting shot in the back. He may have been a violent person but he was cooperating with police but I guess that wasn't what they wanted?

 

[steveh_131]

Speaking of a shallow sea of obvious intellectuals...

Did it make sense to you? Toss a grenade to disorient him then stand there and...what? What was the plan? He was walking, hands full of his stuff. What was the plan here?

Is that what you would have done?

 

[g00n24]

The man still had access to deadly weapons he previously threatened to use. Level ground not only makes it easier to handcuff someone, it also makes it easier to fight.

The flash bang is designed to disorientate. It momentarily scrambles you mental and physical ability to focus. If you cannot focus, you cannot fight.

are flash bangs really that effective when used outside in the daytime in a completely open environment? I've never been around one going off, but I've stood too close to plenty of bright things that go boom and have never felt disorientated...might have been different if I was in an enclosed space however.

 

[public servant]

Did it make sense to you? Toss a grenade to disorient him then stand there and...what? What was the plan? He was walking, hands full of his stuff. What was the plan here?

Is that what you would have done?

If I thought the flash bang would work outside I'd have flash banged him, waited for him to display effects that the flash bang worked then rushed him, put him on the ground if he wasn't already and handcuffed him. Knowing that deadly force still is an option if necessary.

I've never seen a flash bang used outdoors. I have indoors and they were very effective.

I'm also not going to walk up to a man that had previously threatened to kill me (knowing he's armed) as if all is over and we're now best buddies.

I'm speaking only for myself. I cannot give testament as to what these police officers' plan was.

 

[public servant]

are flash bangs really that effective when used outside in the daytime in a completely open environment? I've never been around one going off, but I've stood too close to plenty of bright things that go boom and have never felt disorientated...might have been different if I was in an enclosed space however.

See my reply above. I've never seen one used outdoors. They work damn well indoors.

 

[steveh_131]

I'm also not going to walk up to a man that had previously threatened to kill me (knowing he's armed) as if all is over and we're now best buddies.

So when it became clear that your flash bang didn't stun him as intended, only frightened him and caused him to reflexively reach for his knife and then clearly surrender and head towards the ground, would you have shot him in the back?

 

[public servant]

So when it became clear that your flash bang didn't stun him as intended, only frightened him and caused him to reflexively reach for his knife and then clearly surrender and head towards the ground, would you have shot him in the back?

I wasn't there. So you're asking me to speculate.

I pray to God every day that I'm not put in a position that I have to shoot another man. But I know the possibility always exists. And if that situation comes about, I pray I'm quicker than he is.

I will ask you though, and honestly I can't tell from the video...if the guy still has deadly weapons in his hand, has he clearly surrendered? Not in my opinion. Until those weapons are out of reach and you're flat on the ground, face down, hands out to the side, you're still a threat.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

has he clearly surrendered?

That would be no.

They had to pry the knives out of his hands when they arrested him.

There was no surrender.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So Kirk, which one of those killer cowboys are you friends with? Technically a good shoot or not, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is fxxked up like Uncle Sam ' s checkbook.

1. All the guys I know on APD have been retired for some time now.

2. The inside baseball info that I do have comes from those in private practice and at the State Public Defender.

3. It was a good shoot. If there is a civil suit I would put its chances at very low or minimal as to chances of compensation.

 

[public servant]

That would be no.

They had to pry the knives out of his hands when they arrested him.

There was no surrender.

Was he reaching for more weapons in his packs?

But no, he had not surrendered.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

They had to pry the knives out of his hands when they arrested him.

That's because he was dead by then.

There was no surrender.

Again with the dead part.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

It was a good shoot.

Rule of Law says "Yes".

Rule of Man says "Yes, OK, but like we keep saying, next time try not to kill anyone."

 

[Kirk Freeman]

That's because he was dead by then.

No, you can see him move his pelvis and legs after he is down. No guarantee that he won't come back to life like the head shot Matix either.

If he wanted to surrender he would have dropped his deadly weapons. He did not; he wanted to fight, good thing he was bad at fighting. The first shots knocked him off balance (I'm betting spine shot) and then down he went with the second three burst.

 

[SumtnFancy]

That would be no.

They had to pry the knives out of his hands when they arrested him.

There was no surrender.

He was pretty much dead already. They didn't pry knives out of his hands, they jackbooted his hands. There was no arrest, just death. Listen to the audio, he was pleading with them to "keep their word and not hurt him" as he was clearly picking up his belongings and giving up. They didn't keep their word and it led to his death. I can't say I wouldn't be apprehensive of him while taking him into custody but that was dirty. His "aggravated assault" was essentially his uneducated way of claiming his own self defense, it appeared to me that he was saying if they attacked him he would kill them. At that point they knew they were going to kill him without hesitation. Listen to the audio, he was backpedaling.