Helping Sex Offenders Re-integrate Into Society

[rtrouten]

but if a woman is the one that commits a sex crime it is looked at different as well

 

[Fletch]

Flex, I see your point about the xbox, I am opened minded, I just have a huge problem with sex offenders, and dont attack my religious views please. yes I am christian other wise i would be saying to kill them and so on

I understand that perfectly, and it was not my intent to attack your religion, because I didn't know what it was -- that's why I was careful to make allowances for the idea that you weren't a Christian (note that I'd already been bitten in the *** for not doing this upthread). Now that I do know it, I'll just say this: I believe we are all given a set of gifts and priorities, and nobody's matches anyone else's. It's not for all of us to care for sex offenders, but it is for us to recognize the work being done by those who do.

Let me put it another way: I have no real "gift" or "calling" to the foreign mission field. I respect and support those who do, but I do not see myself ever heading off to New Guinea or whatever to commiserate with the tribespeople. My calling is 100% right here in America, and sex offenders are only part of it. But that doesn't mean I tell people who are going off to Africa that they're doing the wrong thing. God's purposes are bigger than any one person or group of people, bigger than any one Mission or field of service. Everybody has to be doing the work -- in whatever way they are called to do it.

but I dont agree with going out of my way for someone that would commit such a crime. It does permanent damage to the person offended. Do you understand that, that person never gets the innocence of that part of them back. There are thousands of people that are law abiding citizens that need help to.

I would just say that Jesus specifically advocated reaching out to criminals. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." Again, it may not be your calling, and that's fine, but I don't think we should tear down those who believe it is their calling.

 

[JetGirl]

Hey, Fletch...FYI;

Flex, I see your point about the xbox,

YOU got a new nickname.
/flex

 

[rtrouten]

ha...Annie, good eye!!! Sorry fletch!!! hell flex is easier to type

 

[Fletch]

ha...Annie, good eye!!! Sorry fletch!!! hell flex is easier to type

Hmmm... I may have to petition the mods for a name change...

...and then steal Dross's avatar...

 

[yotewacker]

The majority of sex offenders cannot be cured. It's in there DNA or such. They are habitual offenders. When they get out, they do it again. I've got a friend who's daughter was abused when she was three. They caught the guy and sent him up. Now twenty years later I find it he has been put away three times in the twenty years!

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Only 16% of violent sex crimes are ever reported to police. Children are 5 times less likely to report a sex crime than an adult. Of those reported, only 29% of sex crimes against an adult results in an arrest and conviction; only 22% for children. That amounts to 1 in 50 violent sex crimes resulting in an arrest and conviction. You have better odds of hitting a single number on a roulette wheel (1:38).

The statistics just don't bear out your statement.

To that I absolutely agree with you, but that is true of any crime. Sex crimes are handled no differently.

i have to dissagree with you there. i believe they are handled diffrently because there is a much higher pressure on the courts to prosucute a sex offence.

if somone steels a stop sign but noone knows who its no big deal if the crime goes un punished.

if a women is raped the court system better convict somone to calm the public outcry for justice so they will do what ever it takes to get a conviction even the wrong one

 

[JetGirl]

Hmmm... I may have to petition the mods for a name change...

...and then steal Dross's avatar...

Meh. Do what you must, but you'll always be my Fletch, Flex.

 

[Fletch]

The majority of sex offenders cannot be cured. It's in there DNA or such. They are habitual offenders. When they get out, they do it again. I've got a friend who's daughter was abused when she was three. They caught the guy and sent him up. Now twenty years later I find it he has been put away three times in the twenty years!

Are you basing your assertion on a sample size of one?

Any sort of addiction is difficult to "cure", if indeed it is addictive behavior that is going on. But I maintain that it is worthwhile to make the effort.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I note you're demanding proof for the assertions of others, but providing precious little for your own assertions. It may be that you're telling the truth, it may be that you're just hoping to bulldoze your way through the discussion by branding yourself an expert.

I'm not demanding anything from anyone. I simply challenged a couple of anecdotal statements which should be challenged. My knowledge comes from having worked in the field for over five years, reading and assimilating many studies and reports, working with many state sex offender registry units, the DOJ, FBI, NCMEC, other sex offender stakeholders, and in-depth statistical analysis of the conviction records of over 550,000 registered sex offenders, including over 16,000 in Indiana.

You bring up the notion of "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which have been passed in Indiana, but then go on to assert that the change of law that happened in Indiana, Connecticut, Florida and Texas in 2007 is true nationwide. After a fair bit of Googling, I see no evidence that this is true, and you have provided none.

I didn't realize I had asserted any such thing. I thought I was clear when I said Indiana changed its law. I lobbied the State Senate to change it because there is a real problem with putting two kids on a bus, unsupervised, and then being mad when they do what kids do when no one is watching. There are a number of states that have changed their Romeo and Juliet laws (more than just the four you mentioned) and others that have had them on the books for quite some time. Since this is an Indiana-centric board for the most part I concentrate on Indiana law.

You've provided information about some studies that show a higher recidivism rate, and I'll take that at face value for the moment, though my search for your Colorado study produced a document which bears no readily discernible relationship to your claims. Meanwhile, the Hansen and Prentky study, near as I can tell, was based on a sample size of 251, specifically selecting rapists and child molesters only, which skews the results by eliminating more innocuous "sex offenses". While I realize you claim that all sex offenders are either child molesters or rapists, I've seen nothing to back up that claim beyond your own assertion.

There are a number of Hansen and/or Prentky studies that have been conducted over the years, not just one you site.

I'm not sure what exactly constitutes an innocuous sex offense. Are some sex offenses better than others?

I don't believe that I said all sex offenders are child molesters or rapists. In fact I said 70% of sex offenders on the Indiana registry committed a crime involving a child. That assumes that 30% are not.

Even given all that, and even if I simply conceded the entire argument to you, it does NOTHING to change the facts on the ground: sex offenders are being released from prison, and the ministry of folks like Tom Wright can only be a positive thing compared to the alternatives of vagrancy and idleness. I'll grant that it is a knotty problem, that of trying to get someone back on the straight and narrow who has strayed so far from it, but that does not mean it should not be tried.

I didn't denegrate Tom Wright's ministry; in fact I applaud it. The only way to reduce recidivism is for sex offenders to accept that what they did is wrong; for them to hold themselves responsible for their actions; to establish accountablity groups within the community to assist them; and finally to avoid ever finding themselves in a risky situation that could lead to commission of a crime. I fail to understand how you can arrive at so many absolutes from what I said, when clearly I stated no such absolutes.

Anyway, the facts on the ground, as you put it, are that sex offenders are being released from prison and in large percentages are committing new sex crimes. Our criminal justice system and social policy are designed to bribe released criminal offenders into not committing crimes by providing education, money, shelter, food, and other staple items that believed to provide sufficient comfort so as to alleviate the need to commit crime for basic subsistence. Sex offenders do not fit into this mold, and neither our criminal justice system or policy makers are educated, equipped or willing to do what it takes to prevent recidivism. It therefore falls on the community to know who among them are potentially dangerous, and ensure that at-risk family and community members are adequately safeguarded. Out of the box thinking such as by Tom Wright could be an answer for some offenders. Whether it will be or not will be borne out over time.

 

[rambone]

The Corporal Works of Mercy
To feed the hungry.
To give drink to the thirsty.
To clothe the naked.
To visit the imprisoned.
To shelter the homeless.
To visit the sick.
To bury the dead.

The Spiritual Works of Mercy
To admonish sinners.
To instruct the ignorant.
To counsel the doubtful.
To comfort the sorrowful.
To bear wrongs patiently.
To forgive all injuries.
To pray for the living and the dead.

 

[Fletch]

...

I fail to understand how you can arrive at so many absolutes from what I said, when clearly I stated no such absolutes.

...

My bad, I understand you better now, and I don't think there's much for us to argue about.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

The question was asked uptopic about "Would you let your kid anywhere near a sex offender?", and I have a reply because that situation happened to me.

Small town (< 2000 people) and rumor was going around about a new barbershop in town, the proprietor rumored to be a sex offender. I looked him up on the Sheriff's website and, yep, there he was. Sex with a minor.

I had had one or two haircuts from the guy so I had met him and never suspected anything afoul. I walked down to the shop, asked him to step outside, told him the rumors, told him I saw him on the website and that I saw the charges. He explained the situation to me, to whit:

He was an adult, went to a party and met a girl that he thought was also an adult, had quite a bit to drink, took the girl home with him, had sex with her, she spent the night and went home the next A.M. Her mother found out about the sex ("Where the **** were you last night? Why didn't you come home?!?") and the girl said she was raped and pressed charges. The guy admitted the charges, did a short stint in jail and has to register on the registry for the rest of his life. He told me to call the Sheriff and ask for a reference from him for how the guy had cleaned up his life and had stayed out of trouble for many years. I did call and the Sheriff did verify the man's story.

They guy and I shook hands, I continued to let him cut my hair and my son's hair - but I never let my son near the establishment without me. It goes back to my old Navy motto of "Trust, But Verify". I told him on the sidewalk that my son was one of the most important things in my life, and that, as a statement of fact, I would exact revenge on anyone that hurt my son. He looked me in the eye and said that he understood what I was saying. We never had a problem.

I realize that this guy was not a typical child molester in that he did not hurt a pre-pubescent child, similar to a guy on the other end of our town. That guy was 16 years old, staying with his girlfriend and her family in an apartment. He was having sexual relations with his girlfriend who was 15. All went well for the guy until he upset the mother who kicked him out and filed charges against him after letting him sleep with her daughter for nearly a year. The kid was nearly 17 and has to register as a sex offender. His case wasn't a "typical" child molesting case, either.

I think the Pastor is trying to do something honorable by running a half-way house for SO's. If he is trying to expand, he may run afoul of the law by having to have a permit to do what he is doing on a larger scale. I understand the neighbors' nervousness about having an organization bordering the land that the Pastor is using but I think a simple fence or boundary denoting the boundary line between the two properties would suffice with the Pastor warning any newcomers to the property that, "If you cross that ditch onto the neighbor's property over that way, you'll probably be shot for trespassing. I wouldn't go that way if you're going to try to leave."

Again, split the difference; Trust, but verify.

 

[Fletch]

I think the Pastor is trying to do something honorable by running a half-way house for SO's. If he is trying to expand, he may run afoul of the law by having to have a permit to do what he is doing on a larger scale. I understand the neighbors' nervousness about having an organization bordering the land that the Pastor is using but I think a simple fence or boundary denoting the boundary line between the two properties would suffice with the Pastor warning any newcomers to the property that, "If you cross that ditch onto the neighbor's property over that way, you'll probably be shot for trespassing. I wouldn't go that way if you're going to try to leave."

Agreed, but one small point: I don't think Tom Wright is a pastor. I think he's just a lay-Christian.

 

[Fletch]

On the subject of teenagers getting caught up in the sex offender registries, here's another story from Oklahoma:

No longer a registered sex offender, but the stigma remains

Short version: At 16 years old, had sex with a girl he thought was 15 (actually 13), and got the whole treatment. For doing what stupid kids do all the time, he was listed in the "most dangerous" category . Now 20, he's finally off the registry in both Iowa and Oklahoma, but folks tend to have longer memories than the registry. Wonderful system we've got going.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Ah, sorry about calling him a Pastor. With the word "ministry" written in the thread I wrote it by mistake.

 

[dross]

I realize that this guy was not a typical child molester in that he did not hurt a pre-pubescent child, ... .

I don't have stats to back this up, but I wonder if that actually isn't the typical offender.

It would be interesting to consider just how many guys, when they were between the ages of 18 and 22, would be on the list if the truth were known. In some states, an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old would be a crime.

 

[Fletch]

I don't have stats to back this up, but I wonder if that actually isn't the typical offender.

It would be interesting to consider just how many guys, when they were between the ages of 18 and 22, would be on the list if the truth were known. In some states, an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old would be a crime.

This is slowly being fixed, but there are still a multitude of problems with the system as a whole, to the point where some folks (like me) question its value altogether.

 

[mettle]

Found this article about a guy right here in Oklahoma:

And then there is the previous article, where the neighbors sound off on the whole thing:

Politically speaking, I say his land, his business. The State has no reason to be messing with him -- they've said these guys are good to go from prison and back into society; he's trying to give them a hand and ease the transition.

Religiously speaking, I say he's one of the few true Christians.

I hope that his outfit flourishes. I also hope that he brings the men to a God and to a true weeping conviction and a recognition of the wrongs committed.

It'd be nice to see these guys not become repeats.

Good for him!

We had a sex offender praying at our altar a few months ago. A couple guys were 'offended' and 'displeased' that the pastor didn't run the guy off. My response was, 'sin is sin, who are we to say God doesn't forgive' just b/c society labels 'worst of the worst'.
If God operated like we do, with personal vengeance, a mean spirit or an unforgiving attitude... this earth would have been destroyed by fire a LONG time ago!

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Actually, no, it's not typical.

There are 24 states where the state provides the age of the victim or age of the offender at time of conviction or commission of the crime. In a detailed analysis I found that less than 1/2% of all offenders were age bracketed where they could have been in a Romeo and Juliet situation. It is a red herring that is often used by critics to blast the value of sex offender registration.

For every story I hear about a Romeo and Juliet I can tell you about 20 sick twisted freaks (to quote Glenn Beck). I had a sex offender's wife contact me once and accuse us of ruining her life because her husband had sex with a 15 year old when he was 16. When we reviewed his conviction history the truth was that he was 37 when he raped a 6 year old. Turns out that this offender, In his mid 50s, had been raping this woman's daughters for years. Or the woman that found out that her new step son was a registered sex offender because he raped his father's second wife's preteen daughters. This woman had twin 10 year olds. The (ex) husband never told here what his son had done. She found out because she found the 17 year old on a sex offender registry.

No sex offender is ever going to tell you that they want to have sex with your kids, even though they do.

I don't have stats to back this up, but I wonder if that actually isn't the typical offender.

It would be interesting to consider just how many guys, when they were between the ages of 18 and 22, would be on the list if the truth were known. In some states, an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old would be a crime.