Helping Sex Offenders Re-integrate Into Society

[ArmedProgrammer]

I think what they are saying is that the law needs to be clear and above board.

If the crime justifies shutting someone up for life, then write the law so they get sentenced to life w/o parole.

If the crime justifies 10 years, then write the law so they get 10 years.

Either one of these is fine.

What doesn't make any sense is saying that the crime justifies being shut away for life, but we will have a law that says they get 10 years, and then when they're out there are more laws that basically make it illegal for them to exist anywhere.

Spot on... and I TOTALLY AGREE.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

It was fixed 3 years ago in Indiana. I lobbied the State Senate to change the law.

I don't see any problem, as long as he, in his moral authority, chooses to inform customers that have children.

I just wish we could fix the whole "statutory rape" issue where people 1-2 years apart do something consensually STUPID, but still get labeled as sex offenders...

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I would respectfully challenge you to provide a single instance where a peeing patron has been turned into a registered sex offender. It does not and has not happened.

I used to own a company that was intimately (no pun intended) involved in locating registered sex offenders nationally. We did extensive analysis on offenders and found some interesting facts. 58% of people on a state registry with a conviction for Indecent Exposure (or equivalent charge) were also convicted of Child Molesting, Rape, or another form of Sexual Assault. An additional 27% of those convicted of Indecent Exposure were from states that only report a single qualifying conviction, and it follows that a substantial percentage of that population would also have been convicted of a more serious crime.

Sex offenders that expose themselves are not harmless.

No, but that's a legislative problem, isn't it. Why are the unrepentant and violent murderers and rapists being let go at all. Why are men who pee in the alley outside a bar lumped in with them in some jurisdictions? NIMBY then whose? Out in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma is as good a place as any to place them.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Respectfully, CSOM is not an unbiased organization. They receive funding based upon their ability to "cure" sex offenders.

There are two studies that are more germane. A 1999 study by the Colorado Department of Corrections found that under polygraph examination 44% of registered sex offenders, released from prison and active in a treatment program, admitted having recommitted sex crimes within 18 months of release from prison. 76% admitted to dangerous behavior that was leading them down the path of recommission.

There are also a series of studies by Hansen and Prentky that show that over a lifetime 40 - 70% of convicted sex offenders will recommit.

The DOJ report showing that only 5.3% recommit within 3 years simply shows how under-reported sex crimes are and how inept and incompetent our justice system is at capturing and convicting sex offenders.

Here's a compilation of some of the various studies. Of course, which strategy minimizes the chance of any given offender to re-offend? The one which treats him like an animal and forces him to live like a vagrant? Or the one that provides him with food, clothing, and requires him to attend a moral education?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

You can go to National Sex Offender Registry to see the sex offenders in your neighborhood.

Served their time? From a legislative view, perhaps, discounting early releases to make room for other convicted felons such as pot smokers. And there is also the issue of all kinds of stupid things being thrown in under the term "sex offender" (did you know that a teenage girl who sends a 'sext' message of herself is guilty of "child exploitation" (a sex crime against a minor)). Until those sorts of things are sorted out, I am hesitant to label anyone as "pervert."

HOWEVER, actual crimes such as child molestation, rape, etc, are among those which the criminal tends to be a repeat offender.

I say, let the newspaper print the names, pictures, and convictions of any sex offender who is moving into a neighborhood, and let the neighborhood parents figure it out. If the parents of kids next door decide they REALLY don't want child molesters mingling with their kids, perhaps a solution can be found.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

True. Most people hear "sex offender" and auto-assume that it means violent child molestor. I don't think anyone realizes how easy it is to get labeled as a SO. Have you ever had sex or fooled around in a car? You're a sex offender. Ever taken a leak in an alley or a park? You're a sex offender. Ever 'streaked'? Guess what? You're a sex offender.

I would respectfully challenge you that there is not a single registered sex offender convicted of a single act of streaking on any state registry, anywhere.

Ever looked at porn or racy pics on a public computer? Sex offender.

Only a crime that can land you on a sex offender registry if the person you were viewing was a child.

Ever pitched a tent in a public place and had to 'adjust' yourself? Well, if another person or a kid saw you do it, you're a sex offender.

Again, I would respectfully challenge you that there is not a single registered sex offender convicted of adjusting themselves in public on any state registry, anywhere.

Now you all know you've done one of these at least once before. And don't think that these are rare cases that never happen. It happens all the time. The witch hunt on these supposed moral crimes is alarming.

Actually, no, most people have never committed a sex crime.

Heck, all that is needed to arrest and charge someone with a sex offense is someone saying 'he did this'. Nothing more than hearsay. Then even if your accuser recants, it's too late. Your name is in the paper and the arrest is on your record. If you're not legal savvy enough to know to contact a lawyer, the police can lie to you and convince you that they have all they need to put you away for years and even ruin your life when you get out. But if you just 'admit' your crime, they will cut you a deal.
Ask me how I know about this. (no, I'm not a sex offender)

To that I absolutely agree with you, but that is true of any crime. Sex crimes are handled no differently.

The absurd number of 'technical' sex offense cases involving teens is astounding. Being sexually involved with someone just 2 years younger than you could allow the state to punish you and ostracize you for the rest of your life.

This is not true, and hasn't been true for 3 years.

Are there the bad kind of SOs who harm children and rape people? Yes.

70% of Indiana's registered sex offenders were convicted of an offense against a child. 18% were convicted of rape. Yeah, most of them are bad people.
Do those people deserve their punishment? Oh goodness yes.

Is every sex offender a sadistic child rapist? No.

Yes, the vast majority are.

Are a large number of SOs branded as scum for things that are undeserved or even false? YES

I would respectfully ask your source for this statement.

So please, when you hear 'sex offender', try not to start foaming at thew mouth and getting bile on your shirt. At least try to get the facts on the person before you cast your righteous judgment.

I would suggest forgetting about righteous judgment and remember that those that have shown an ability to do it before have a propensity to do it again. You don't have to pass judgment on someone to decide that they are too much of a risk to be allowed to be near someone you love, expecially if you are charged with taking care of them.

 

[Fletch]

I note you're demanding proof for the assertions of others, but providing precious little for your own assertions. It may be that you're telling the truth, it may be that you're just hoping to bulldoze your way through the discussion by branding yourself an expert.

You bring up the notion of "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which have been passed in Indiana, but then go on to assert that the change of law that happened in Indiana, Connecticut, Florida and Texas in 2007 is true nationwide. After a fair bit of Googling, I see no evidence that this is true, and you have provided none.

You've provided information about some studies that show a higher recidivism rate, and I'll take that at face value for the moment, though my search for your Colorado study produced a document which bears no readily discernible relationship to your claims. Meanwhile, the Hansen and Prentky study, near as I can tell, was based on a sample size of 251, specifically selecting rapists and child molesters only, which skews the results by eliminating more innocuous "sex offenses". While I realize you claim that all sex offenders are either child molesters or rapists, I've seen nothing to back up that claim beyond your own assertion.

Even given all that, and even if I simply conceded the entire argument to you, it does NOTHING to change the facts on the ground: sex offenders are being released from prison, and the ministry of folks like Tom Wright can only be a positive thing compared to the alternatives of vagrancy and idleness. I'll grant that it is a knotty problem, that of trying to get someone back on the straight and narrow who has strayed so far from it, but that does not mean it should not be tried.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Even given all that, and even if I simply conceded the entire argument to you, it does NOTHING to change the facts on the ground: sex offenders are being released from prison, and the ministry of folks like Tom Wright can only be a positive thing compared to the alternatives of vagrancy and idleness. I'll grant that it is a knotty problem, that of trying to get someone back on the straight and narrow who has strayed so far from it, but that does not mean it should not be tried.

That's the conundrum that I faced exactly in deciding how to handle issues regarding my cousin. On one hand, I had the assumption of a high rate of recidivism. On the other had a close relative being released from prison - but thrown into a morass where the main choices lead to the no-win of vagrancy and idleness that you allude to above, Fletch. Hence my agreement with you the programs like Mr Wright's serve a HUGE purpose. And clearly, my cousin should NOT be in contact with children - nor from all anyone can tell does he wish to be.

And if we feel that the correct sentence for their crime is life with no parole, then write the laws that way! And I would likely go for it. To be thrown into a no-man's-land of indecision - (you are paroled , but have no place or way to live) does neither them nor society any good. For anyone who's seen Les Miserables... call it the Jean Valjean dilemna - except that his crime was not so noble as stealing bread - and I will be the FIRST to agree that his crime was horrific.


And note in all of this, SemperFi, that I am ASSUMING and AGREEING with your assertions... specifically that the existing sex offender population has plenty of:
1) people who actually did it (as my cousin did)
2) people who have the tendency to do it again (Lord I hope not in his, or any, case)
and I'm deliberately IGNORING
3) Cases where an innocent man was convicted although I have seen it.
4) Cases where no one (especially political leaders) would help someone (even someone wrongly convicted) because of the stigma of "they helped a child molester...". Although I have seen this too...
5) The possibility of that some of these people convicted of sex offenses are "misclassified"

#3,4,5 are IGNORED in my assessment, although I know that SOME must exist.

Am I saying that my cousin could not live within a mile of my place?? Hell no! Given the size of my city, I am sure that I have 2 or 3 sex offenders living in that big a radius of my place NOW. I AM saying that my cousin will not have the ability to build any kind of relationship with my kids (from the close in access perspective that most families have) - until they are WAY into being adults, and are well warned and able to shoot back! YES I AM SAYING THAT - for their protection. And I'm not asking anyone else to do any different. I don't suggest anyone else invite him to hang out all day with their kids EITHER!

What I am saying is this... MAKE the assumption that EVERYTHING we've been told on the subject is the truth... Now take the fact that there are sufficient numbers of people convicted of these crimes that the registries show a handful of them scattered in every population - again - assuming ALL to have a high chance of offending again. Even in pudunk-a$$ Washington County - there's still enough of them spread around.

Even from a public policy perspective would you NOT prefer to have them where you KNEW where they were? What all of the registries don't tell you is this... How many of the sex offenders find that they cannot live within society since they a) cannot get a job b) cannot get housing etc.??? So they go off the books, underground, under the radar and work for cash... Anybody want to bet that the gubbamint has an accurate handle on where EVERY convicted sex offender is??? How accurate is the gubbamint's grip on illegal immigrants??? Both are underground to the same degree...

If they come onto your property, try to talk with your kids, hang 'em high! But there's got to be somewhere that they can live.... and there are some in every town - the ones that ARE registered will show you that with one glance at the map.

I just ask that people think through these things and come to whatever reasonable conclusion they wish... mine are on the record.

 

[JetGirl]

Maybe this should go here, huh?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-cyber_suspect_woman_wanted_rape_fantasy.html

 

[RelicHound]

Are you advocating the murder of Christians, on their own property, for breaking no law, merely doing something you don't like?

WOW! does you computer screen jumble words around? nothing I just read in ETG's post gave me the slightest hint that he was advocating anything..let alone the "murder or christians"

 

[Joe Williams]

WOW! does you computer screen jumble words around? nothing I just read in ETG's post gave me the slightest hint that he was advocating anything..let alone the "murder or christians"

At least twice he's advocated neighbors "dealing" with this situation without bothering with the legal process, and made references to using ropes and trees to solve what he sees as a problem. If you cannot see the "slightest hint " of a call for vigilante "justice" there, perhaps you should amp up your reading comprehension.

 

[Fletch]

At least twice he's advocated neighbors "dealing" with this situation without bothering with the legal process, and made references to using ropes and trees to solve what he sees as a problem. If you cannot see the "slightest hint " of a call for vigilante "justice" there, perhaps you should amp up your reading comprehension.

If not advocacy, at the very least enthusiastic approval.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

MMM, foregone conclusions and over-generalizations.

Excellent reading skills, gentlemen.

I do condone the death penalty for child molesters.

And I do think the neighbors will not let this stand, whether it be railroading the supposed reformist and his re-education camp, or passing a city ordinance not allowing such activities to take place within X number of feet near public property.

As for the accusation that I condone the 'murder of Christians,' Joe, you need to relax - I most certainly do NOT wish harm to befall any Christian for mere fact of being Christian. You're definitely twisting my statements to even be able to come up with something even near that pronouncement. As I said, I do want the death penalty for crimes against children, regardless of the religion of those who molest children.

And if none of you are able to understand that distinction, I think I'm well-done posting in this thread, if you insist on accusing me of taking heinous and untrue positions on an issue as important - and potentially defaming - as unjustified murder.

 

[Fletch]

And I do think the neighbors will not let this stand, whether it be railroading the supposed reformist and his re-education camp, or passing a city ordinance not allowing such activities to take place within X number of feet near public property.

What exactly constitutes "railroading", as you use the term? "Passing a city ordinance" has two problems: first you hinted that the neighbors would not need the help of official types, and second to have an effect on Tom Wright's ministry it would almost certainly have to run afoul of a few Constitutional provisions... I'm thinking first amendment and the bit about ex post facto laws.

 

[rtrouten]

lashicon...if you have a felony "murder" or abuse for that matter you cant get a LTCH...that was my point. you dont get all your rights back.

 

[Fletch]

lashicon...if you have a felony "murder" or abuse for that matter you cant get a LTCH...that was my point. you dont get all your rights back.

And lashicoN's point was that you should. If you're free, in society, you should have all the rights of any other free member of society, instead of creating this multi-tiered monstrosity where some are more free than others, beyond the simple division of "free" or "in prison".

 

[rtrouten]

that is the problem, there are so many criminals today, people you would never guess to be one. and th law is letting these people out early because the jails are over crowded, or you commit a crime and get a slap on the hand because there are more serious crimes to deal with. so do you have children? have you sent them to there rooms or a corner and after a few minutes let them off? well that is were it starts, kids think they can get away with it and it goes on from there and then when they get out of jail...hey it is not fair I want my rights back too because did my time. give me a break, I will tell you what why dont you move to this so called camp set up shop and be happy with a bunch of sex offenders

 

[Fletch]

that is the problem, there are so many criminals today, people you would never guess to be one. and th law is letting these people out early because the jails are over crowded, or you commit a crime and get a slap on the hand because there are more serious crimes to deal with. so do you have children? have you sent them to there rooms or a corner and after a few minutes let them off? well that is were it starts, kids think they can get away with it and it goes on from there and then when they get out of jail...hey it is not fair I want my rights back too because did my time.

Am I to understand that your preferred method of parenting is not to take the XBox away for a week, but to destroy it?

give me a break, I will tell you what why dont you move to this so called camp set up shop and be happy with a bunch of sex offenders

Chandler's not that far a drive from me. And I already have plans to visit and thank Mr. Wright for the work he's doing, and possibly make a donation to his cause. The man is doing good work, the best way he knows how. He's being what Jesus told us to be: friends to the outcast, lovers of the worst kind of sinner. It's cool with me if you're not a Christian and don't care to be -- it's not my job to save your soul. But it is my job to encourage my fellow Christians when they're doing the Work.

 

[rtrouten]

Flex, I see your point about the xbox, I am opened minded, I just have a huge problem with sex offenders, and dont attack my religious views please. yes I am christian other wise i would be saying to kill them and so on, but I dont agree with going out of my way for someone that would commit such a crime. It does permanent damage to the person offended. Do you understand that, that person never gets the innocence of that part of them back. There are thousands of people that are law abiding citizens that need help to.

 

[42769vette]

To that I absolutely agree with you, but that is true of any crime. Sex crimes are handled no differently.

i have to dissagree with you there. i believe they are handled diffrently because there is a much higher pressure on the courts to prosucute a sex offence.

if somone steels a stop sign but noone knows who its no big deal if the crime goes un punished.

if a women is raped the court system better convict somone to calm the public outcry for justice so they will do what ever it takes to get a conviction even the wrong one