Hassled by Buffalo Wild Wings for OC at Dupont, Fort Wayne

[SirRealism]

I just wanted to say thanks to mk2ja for taking all the time to politely respond to the posts in this thread. Not too many people would have the patience and calmness to respond in such a polite manner to such an abundance of responses.

Yep. His demeanor in all his posts, and especially in this thread, are what make folks believe him when he says he was polite to the BWW staff.

 

[lovemachine]

Just outta curiousity, let's pretend this happened instead:

Manager comes to the OP's table and says, "excuse me sir. I see that you are open carrying. I know that it is perfectly legal, and is your right to do so. Me, I fully support the 2nd amendment. But, a few of my customers are complaining. I would tell them that you are doing nothing illegal. But, here's my problem. It's corporate policy that BW3 is anti-gun. Since I fully support the 2nd amendment myself, I won't put the "no guns" sign on the door. I don't want to lose my job over this, especially since this is my only means to support my family. So, could you do me a favor and cover your gun until you leave the restaurant?"

If the manager said "something" like above, how would you have reacted then?

 

[N_K_1984]

No arguments from me, just a thought...

My mind keeps migrating to thoughts of the 1991 Luby's Massacre in Killeen, TX

What's the old addage, "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

 

[Mr.Strato]

Pretty thin sheet of paper that's only got one side- and one side is all we're gettin' here... then he adds a little more...then another tidbit-
I ain't buyin' it. Others can sheeple up to him and proclaim him hero.
He won't answer the charges because he can't.
"Tell my wife not to talk if pulled over by a cop" Indeed!
All of this story revolves around how calm , confident and controlling
the op was...Don't drink his kool-aid.
Wanna kick me off for pointing out the truth and exposing loopholes in a tall tale? You own the boot.

 

[mk2ja]

Just outta curiousity, let's pretend this happened instead:

Manager comes to the OP's table and says, "excuse me sir. I see that you are open carrying. I know that it is perfectly legal, and is your right to do so. Me, I fully support the 2nd amendment. But, a few of my customers are complaining. I would tell them that you are doing nothing illegal. But, here's my problem. It's corporate policy that BW3 is anti-gun. Since I fully support the 2nd amendment myself, I won't put the "no guns" sign on the door. I don't want to lose my job over this, especially since this is my only means to support my family. So, could you do me a favor and cover your gun until you leave the restaurant?"

If the manager said "something" like above, how would you have reacted then?

You know how they say we should decide in advance how we'll respond to different situations? It's the same story whether we take defensive handgun training classes, whether it is a DARE program teaching you to "just say no to drugs," or a youth pastor encouraging you to decide in advance to wait until marriage for sex. In all of these, if you make up your mind ahead of time, all you have to do is remember your "training" for responding to that situation instead of trying to figure how to respond WHILE you are responding.

Admittedly, I had not determined in advance how to respond to this situation. Also, now when you pose your question, I've had more time to reflect. And with hindsight being what it is, I believe that, if a manager approaches me with that argument to make his request, there is a pretty good chance my response will be different in the future. Knowing myself and my attitudes, if the manager at BWW had used it, there's also a good chance my reaction last Friday would have been different, but I can't say with certainty. (Those who are honest with themselves know that it is tough to say, "well, if only he had done this, I would have done this instead of that" with any true degree of certainty.)

Good question, love machine. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Scutter01]

Wanna kick me off for pointing out the truth and exposing loopholes in a tall tale? You own the boot.

You are free to discuss and disagree all you want, but trolling, name-calling, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. As long as you can remain civil, everybody's happy.

 

[mk2ja]

He won't answer the charges because he can't.

What charge have I not answered? I might've missed it.

 

[Roadie]

What charge have I not answered? I might've missed it.

None.

Keep up the lucid, calm, rational debate

 

[Benny]

What charge have I not answered? I might've missed it.

There's nothing you haven't answered.

The fact that you have remained level-headed through the barrage of insults Mr. Strato has tossed around speaks volumes for both of you.

 

[theweakerbrother]

There's nothing you haven't answered.

The fact that you have remained level-headed through the barrage of insults Mr. Strato has tossed around speaks volumes for both of you.

Someone check to see if the manager's last name is Strato.

 

[Benny]

LOL, good call.

 

[KGreenwell]

I realize I am in the minority on this issue but I don't understand why anybody would have a problem covering their gun if requested.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

As long as my local BWW doesn't post a no guns sign and doesn't ever bother me about openly carrying, I will continue to allow them the honor of making me mango habanero wings.

They either didn't get the memo or just choose to ignore it.

Either way, no problem in Crawfordsville.

Mango Habanero? Sissy.

I drank a large cup of blazing sauce at BWW one night. I thought the waitress was going to pass out.

As far as not paying (other post) because you are "kicked out", don't do it. It's a violation of the Innkeeper's law (don't know the statute and too lazy to look it up tonight). You can absolutely go to jail for failing to pay a food bill when asked to leave.

 

[mk2ja]

Someone check to see if the manager's last name is Strato.

LOL, good call.

Could be! I don't know. If he is the manager, he's more than welcome to post the other side to the story that he mentioned.

Pretty thin sheet of paper that's only got one side- and one side is all we're gettin' here...

 

[rmabrey]

Wanna kick me off

Dont I wish

 

[sloughfoot]

I realize I am in the minority on this issue but I don't understand why anybody would have a problem covering their gun if requested.

You and I could be in the minority, But there are several thousand INGO members, and only a couple of dozen have stuck their necks out and posted in this thread.

I suspect a lot more folks agree with us. But, I really don't know.....

 

[ATM]

Mango Habanero? Sissy.

Them's pinchin' an slappin' words right there!

 

[mk2ja]

I realize I am in the minority on this issue but I don't understand why anybody would have a problem covering their gun if requested.

In my mind, your question traces its roots in the question of why a person would be OC'ing in the first place. There are many reasons to do so (the merits of which have been discussed in numerous threads already, so I won't delve into them), and if a citizen has made the decision to OC, he likely had at least one, maybe more, explicit reasons to carry in that manner.

If Somebody Else does not want a Carrier to carry in that manner, he must convince Carrier to change the carry method by one of two means: reason or force. (For more on the concept of "reason or force", check out Reason or Force.) In the scenario wherein Carrier has decided to open carry, the reason provided by Somebody Else must somehow override the reasons which compelled Carrier to choose OC in the first place. This is not impossible, of course, but it may be difficult for Somebody Else to do, depending on who Carrier is, his background, past experiences, mood, medications, attire, handicap, language, et al.

I have attempted to answer your question in a very broad sense so that the answer could apply to any person who, having decided to OC, is asked to cover up his sidearm.

 

[mk2ja]

I realize I am in the minority on this issue but I don't understand why anybody would have a problem covering their gun if requested.

You and I could be in the minority, But there are several thousand INGO members, and only a couple of dozen have stuck their necks out and posted in this thread.

I suspect a lot more folks agree with us. But, I really don't know.....

I thought of that, too. It may be that only the more boisterous people were willing to post in this thread—and being more boisterous, they were more likely OC and not be inclined to cover up if so requested—while persons such as you two, who would've simply covered up (or not OC'd in the first place, perhaps) tended to keep quiet in here. Definitely possible.

 

[mk2ja]

In my mind, your question traces its roots in the question of why a person would be OC'ing in the first place. There are many reasons to do so (the merits of which have been discussed in numerous threads already, so I won't delve into them), and if a citizen has made the decision to OC, he likely had at least one, maybe more, explicit reasons to carry in that manner.

If Somebody Else does not want a Carrier to carry in that manner, he must convince Carrier to change the carry method by one of two means: reason or force. (For more on the concept of "reason or force", check out Reason or Force.) In the scenario wherein Carrier has decided to open carry, the reason provided by Somebody Else must somehow override the reasons which compelled Carrier to choose OC in the first place. This is not impossible, of course, but it may be difficult for Somebody Else to do, depending on who Carrier is, his background, past experiences, mood, medications, attire, handicap, language, et al.

I have attempted to answer your question in a very broad sense so that the answer could apply to any person who, having decided to OC, is asked to cover up his sidearm.

I was thinking some more about this, and I think I came up with a simpler way of explaining it:

Why wouldn't the person want to just cover up if asked? Well, if the person had it openly carried, he probably had a good reason to carry that way. So if somebody else wants him NOT to carry that way, they better be able to give him a better reason in order to make him change his mind.