Hassled by Buffalo Wild Wings for OC at Dupont, Fort Wayne

[mk2ja]

I'm going back and forth on posts... I think I'll delete everything and just say...

Back and forth on posts? Meaning you can't decide what you think about the matter?

 

[mk2ja]

Well good job overall. I think I only disagree with with you when you mentioned that you would leave and not pay for your food. Refusing to pay for your food because you don't like it is one thing. But you guys were already eating and they took the time/cost to make it for you and the problem was unrelated to service or food quality. And no, service isn't the problem here. I suspect you might believe this. So, I will comment on it. That establishment and its manager have the right to specify who can come and go and if you can pack a piece or not on the property.

I would have asked the manager for a to go bag and offered to leave. I would NOT even want to take a chance waiting for the police to show up. The manager didn't ask you to leave, so technically you were not "trespassing". However, I don't trust law enforcement to understand situations they come to handle, especially when its me and a serious issue at hand (such has bearing arms). You might get some butt head cop with an attitude and things could go south for you, if you feel me.

I think its important to keep your answers short and simple. Yes, no. Sounds like you did. We can't change other people's minds on these issues in the moment and its not worth even trying. When carrying guns its important to sallow pride and always de-esculate.

Just my two cents man. Overall you were peaceable and not hostile which is good. Nothing wrong in "standing up" for what you believe in.

You made some good points here.

I shouldn't count on the cops being well informed on the facts of the law OR the facts of the situation.

I was prepared to get up and walk out without my friends (we'd driven separately) if he wouldn't allow me to remain there with my sidearm visible, but I hadn't even thought about asking for a box. My main thinking was, as you already read, "If you're not going to let me finish my meal, I'm not going to pay for it." But, as we all know, he ended up deciding to allow me to remain at the restaurant with it visible after all.

Your advice about always deescalating is sound. I believe I did not escalate the situation, but I did not take pro-active steps to deescalate. Good food for though; thanks.

 

[Rookie]

As far as the suit in the restaurant argument...

If I were to walk into a restaurant and they explained their policy before seating me, then I wouldn't have a problem with complying. If they seated me, brought me my order, and then decided to fill me in on their rules, then I'm going to assume I'm being hassled.

Same goes for this situation. I really don't care if they noticed it or not. My local hospital has NO FIREARMS in big, bold letters. Being that their sign is simply a request, I am willing to compromise by concealing. Same with the mall. My kids want to go there at times, so I conceal and take them. If, for some reason, an employee were to see my weapon and confront me, then I would leave without comment because I knew their policy when I walked in the door.

 

[Rookie]

As far as the manager, sure he had the right to ask that the firearm be covered. The OP had the right to refuse. The only real Right the manager had was to ask the OP the leave and the OP would not have had the Right to refuse.

Boy, I sure hope I got my R's right (or Right?).

 

[bglaze]

If I were to walk into a restaurant and they explained their policy before seating me, then I wouldn't have a problem with complying. If they seated me, brought me my order, and then decided to fill me in on their rules, then I'm going to assume I'm being hassled.

 

[Mr.Strato]

Well, you've had your 15 minutes of gun totin' fame, You're posts are becoming neurotic and We've all caught a hiccup in your tale...

You said in your OP you took your jacket off, hung it on a chair, then went and washed your hands...sounds like you took a walk and were into showing your pistol off in the joint.

Later you say how the gun is black, the clothes are dark, military haircut, ex corpsman, friend wants to be a bla bla bla...get your phone ready to record, set your phasers to "stun", and btw, don't you guys SAY ANYTHING if the cops come...hmmm, who told YOU to dole out the 1st amendment rights while no-one can dole out the 2nd to you???

Too many loopholes in your tale.

 

[Hammerhead]

Actually, he'd be advising them of their 5th Amendment rights (and Miranda warning), not taking away their 1st Amendment rights.

He might have walked to the crapper with the gun showing. Does that mean that the person who "complained" saw it then? Don't know. It's not like he was wearing a bright neon sign blinking and pointing it out.

Still doesn't mean he has to cover it.

 

[ATM]

...It's not like he was wearing a bright neon sign blinking and pointing it out.

I barely get 20 minutes of run time out of mine.

I should switch to LEDs.

 

[Hammerhead]

I barely get 20 minutes of run time out of mine.

I should switch to LEDs.

Don't forget to open the solar panels so you get a full charge.

 

[Mr.Strato]

Actually, Hammerhead, here's exactly what he "says " he said..
"iPhone to record any conversations with law enforcement and instructed my friends that they were not to speak to the cops."

Sounds like maybe he got both 1 and 5??? Who died and made him queen?

This tale is looking like Swiss cheese...another buffoon blowhard OC thread.

 

[rmabrey]

You said in your OP you took your jacket off, hung it on a chair, then went and washed your hands...sounds like you took a walk and were into showing your pistol off in the joint.

Or it was warm inside the restaurant so he took his jacket off before going to wash his hands, because they were seated quickly and he didn't have time when he first came in.

Dont be so quick to judge people

Later you say how the gun is black, the clothes are dark, military haircut, ex corpsman, friend wants to be a bla bla bla...get your phone ready to record, set your phasers to "stun", and btw, don't you guys SAY ANYTHING if the cops come...hmmm, who told YOU to dole out the 1st amendment rights while no-one can dole out the 2nd to you???

So he explained how he was dressed...why? Because that always gets asked of the OP in the negative encounter threads. Hang out a little longer and you'll learn who to call bull**** on and who to believe

 

[JSeroka]

I have my carry license for Ohio, and am not as familiar with the Indiana laws, so I default to my state issued rules. In Ohio your not permitted to carry in an establishment that sells alcohol that can be consumed on the premises, regardless if your drinking or not. Is that not the case with Indiana?

 

[rmabrey]

I have my carry license for Ohio, and am not as familiar with the Indiana laws, so I default to my state issued rules. In Ohio your not permitted to carry in an establishment that sells alcohol that can be consumed on the premises, regardless if your drinking or not. Is that not the case with Indiana?

No, it is perfectly legal to carry in those establishments and consume alcohol while carrying, whether or not you should do so is a different story

 

[mk2ja]

Well, you've had your 15 minutes of gun totin' fame, You're posts are becoming neurotic and We've all caught a hiccup in your tale...

neurotic
adjective
1 Medicine neurotic patients: mentally ill, mentally disturbed, unstable, unbalanced, maladjusted; psychopathic, phobic, obsessive–compulsive. ANTONYMS stable, well balanced.
2 a neurotic, self-obsessed woman: overanxious, oversensitive, nervous, tense, high-strung, strung-out, paranoid; obsessive, fixated, hysterical, overwrought, worked-up, irrational, twitchy; agitated, apprehensive. ANTONYMS laid-back, calm.

I don't think my posts qualify as neurotic.

You said in your OP you took your jacket off, hung it on a chair, then went and washed your hands...sounds like you took a walk and were into showing your pistol off in the joint.

Later you say how the gun is black, the clothes are dark, military haircut, ex corpsman, friend wants to be a bla bla bla...

When you walk, doesn't your arm normally mostly cover up a sidearm on your hip? Or, even if it is under your shirt/jacket, isn't your elbow just about right on the grip? That's the case with my EDC and normal holster (which is what I had that night). When you're walking to a bathroom in a restaurant, how often is it a straight line? Are you not kinda weaving through some tables? That means you don't really hit a stride where your arms are swaying, and normally you're holding your arms close to your body to make sure you aren't hitting the backs of people's chairs.

There are many times that I OC and nobody ever notices. Other people who have OC'd can confirm that between a general lack of situational awareness and the fact that their holstered firearms are between their body and their arms, most people never notice.

And as I mentioned, even the guy at my own table, who saw me get up and leave when it was my turn to wash up, didn't notice my sidearm.

I assure you, there was no flaunting of the fact that I was carrying.

get your phone ready to record, set your phasers to "stun", and btw, don't you guys SAY ANYTHING if the cops come...hmmm, who told YOU to dole out the 1st amendment rights while no-one can dole out the 2nd to you???

Haven't you watched that video that was posted some time ago of the lecture by the lawyer and the cop who spend 45 minutes explaining one simple principle—"Don't talk to the police"? I know that neither of those two friends are on INGO, so I know they didn't see it here. I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't been here. And if I hadn't seen it, I would never have thought of the issues the lawyer and cop raised. Not knowing their background on the topic, I wanted to make sure we were all on the same page. Is that not prudent?

Fortunately, my friend emphatically assured me that he wasn't going to say anything to the cops anyway. OK, great, he already knew. The younger fellow had probably never thought about it before, just as I, at that age, certainly had never thought about it.

Too many loopholes in your tale.

I don't see any other "loophole" presented beyond your assessment that I must have been valiantly attempting to achieve some fame and recognition for my bravery in carrying around a tool of violent destruction with reckless abandon in ordinary everyday public activities—which, of course, was not the case, and therefore not a loophole in the account of the events.

Actually, Hammerhead, here's exactly what he "says " he said..
"iPhone to record any conversations with law enforcement and instructed my friends that they were not to speak to the cops."

Sounds like maybe he got both 1 and 5??? Who died and made him queen?

This tale is looking like Swiss cheese...another buffoon blowhard OC thread.

Heh, "queen"… nice. "Buffoon blowhard"? Not so nice.

If you were pulled over and you suspected it was for speeding, wouldn't you want your wife to let you handle speaking to the cop? It's really the same scenario. Sitting in your car waiting for the cop to walk up and reminding your wife and kids to "keep quiet and let me do the talking" would be the same thing as I did sitting at the table waiting to see if the cops would show up and me reminding my companions to keep quiet. Again, prudent.

And for the record, since I'm on a definitions "kick" in here…

prudent |ˈpro͞odnt|
adjective
acting with or showing care and thought for the future

Or it was warm inside the restaurant so he took his jacket off before going to wash his hands, because they were seated quickly and he didn't have time when he first came in.

Right-o. It was chilly outside, not inside. We'd just come from the YMCA, so we figured it was a good idea to wash hands. Since when do three guys all go to the bathroom at the same time, though? They stood up first, so I went last. No big plan to try to show off or anything.

So he explained how he was dressed...why? Because that always gets asked of the OP in the negative encounter threads.

Yup. Apparel does affect impressions. If I'd walked in with super baggy sweat pants and a really loose hoodie jacket with the hood up covering half my face and my gun visible in my waistband, people would no doubt—and I wouldn't argue with them—claim that I had it coming by looking like a common thug, a gangster, a criminal even, who would obviously make other customers uneasy. So I provided information that I was not dressed in such a manner.

Dont be so quick to judge people
…
Hang out a little longer and you'll learn who to call bull**** on and who to believe

 

[Scutter01]

Anyone who cannot have a civil conversation devoid of personal attacks or insults will be asked to leave.

 

[Donnelly]

Actually, Hammerhead, here's exactly what he "says " he said..
"iPhone to record any conversations with law enforcement and instructed my friends that they were not to speak to the cops."

Sounds like maybe he got both 1 and 5??? Who died and made him queen?

This tale is looking like Swiss cheese...another buffoon blowhard OC thread.

No need to be personally insulting.



Play nice or go home.

 

[Roadie]

Actually, Hammerhead, here's exactly what he "says " he said..
"iPhone to record any conversations with law enforcement and instructed my friends that they were not to speak to the cops."

Sounds like maybe he got both 1 and 5??? Who died and made him queen?

This tale is looking like Swiss cheese...another buffoon blowhard OC thread.

So, are you TRYING to insult half the members of this Forum (OCers) or do you just type before you think?

 

[Scutter01]

The warning has been given. Further pile-on is not necessary. Please return to your regularly-scheduled thread.

Thanks!

 

[Donnelly]

I would have sworn I was right under mk2ja's post. Must have skipped right past yours Scutter. Didn't mean to dogpile.

 

[jsharmon7]

I just wanted to say thanks to mk2ja for taking all the time to politely respond to the posts in this thread. Not too many people would have the patience and calmness to respond in such a polite manner to such an abundance of responses.