Hammond LEO interaction today

[actaeon277]

Well, I would suggest having a cook out at the OPs house.
But I think we'd better wait till he either contacts Relford, or complains to the PD.

 

[stephen87]

I'm pretty sure the responding LEO did that. I'm just claiming self defense.

Not what I mean. Putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm, which by the way, is NOT illegal.

Every situation is different. I prefer not to draw funny lines in the sand with anyone, particularly someone who might erroneously arrest me. It doesn't mean that there are no boundaries, just that I prefer to set them and not let a situation that can be resolved with an ID escalate.

Like I said, that's me. But, I've learned there are no old, bold gunfighters. If I have to fight, I want it to be over something more ideological than an ID.

I don't think officers are dumb enough to arrest someone for something that they know is not a crime. Well, MOST officers.

I'm willing to stand my ground on laws that I know. I'm willing to stand against an illegal order. I'm willing to tell an officer the law when he tells me what he THINKS the law is. Maybe I'm stubborn. Maybe I'm an ass. Maybe I'm an idiot. Whatever I am, I'm not afraid to stand my ground.

Mayor McDermott is a D.
Democrat.

In Hammond, that means he can have a hooker take a picture of him murdering someone, and he would still get elected over a R (Republican).

I didn't mean Democrat...

 

[Bunnykid68]

Not what I mean. Putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm, which by the way, is NOT illegal.



I don't think officers are dumb enough to arrest someone for something that they know is not a crime. Well, MOST officers.

I'm willing to stand my ground on laws that I know. I'm willing to stand against an illegal order. I'm willing to tell an officer the law when he tells me what he THINKS the law is. Maybe I'm stubborn. Maybe I'm an ass. Maybe I'm an idiot. Whatever I am, I'm not afraid to stand my ground.

I didn't mean Democrat...

You meant a dick didn't you

 

[stephen87]

You meant a dick didn't you

Thanks, bunny. I figured most people knew I meant dick, but I forgot some may not be able to figure it out. Thanks for helping them out.

 

[remauto1187]

Not what I mean. Putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm, which by the way, is NOT illegal.

Huh? You can not mail a handgun if YOU ARE NOT a FFL. 432 Mailability USPS Code. Possibly even a federal offense....but Im too lazy to look it up. Bringing a handgun into the USPS and not a FFL is a Felony.(read the signs that do have force of Federal Law on the door). Bringing ANY gun on any other Federal Property is a Felony. Say it with me, FELL UN EEE.

 

[aikidoka]

Well, I would suggest having a cook out at the OPs house.
But I think we'd better wait till he either contacts Relford, or complains to the PD.

Email sent ot Relford and I will file a complaint after hearing from Relford or before the time limit if I don't hear from him

 

[stephen87]

Huh? You can not mail a handgun if YOU ARE NOT a FFL. 432 Mailability USPS Code. Possibly even a federal offense....but Im too lazy to look it up. Bringing a handgun into the USPS and not a FFL is a Felony.(read the signs that do have force of Federal Law on the door). Bringing ANY gun on any other Federal Property is a Felony. Say it with me, FELL UN EEE.

Show me where in USC or IC you can't mail a handgun. You can't mail a handgun to transfer it to someone else in another state. As far as I've heard, you can mail it to yourself. Sorry to reference a thread, but I've seen it posted around here also.

Mailing a gun properly to myself in another state? - The Firing Line Forums

Also, what make you think that taking it into USPS is illegal? I believe it was ruled once that it is not illegal.

ETA::
http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ons-unlicensed-persons#shipping-firearms-usps

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Straight from the ATF, along with applicable USC references.

It also mentions shipping firearms via USPS.

 

[remauto1187]

Show me where in USC or IC you can't mail a handgun. You can't mail a handgun to someone else. AS far as I've heard, you can mail it to yourself. Sorry to reference a thread, but I've seen it posted around here also.

Mailing a gun properly to myself in another state? - The Firing Line Forums

Also, what make you think that taking it into USPS is illegal? I believe it was ruled once that it is not illegal.

Being a Federal Employee myself I can tell you that it is a felony to bring a firearm on Federal Property. Sign is on my office door, its on the Post Office door and if you click on the link in my prior post you will see that you CANNOT mail a firearm unless you are FFL holder. So if you arent a FFL holder and you walk into a post office with a handgun (even in a sealed box ready to be mailed)....it is a FELL UN EEE. Says so right on the door and i believe the USC is even listed on the Post Office door signs.
18 USC 1930 covers federal property in general and the USPS has their own specific 39 USC 410.

Not saying I agree with any of it....but it is what it is....the law.

 

[stephen87]

Refresh and read the edited post.

As far as the post office goes, it seems you are correct on carrying INTO the post office. HOWEVER, it apparently only applies to handguns as you can legally ship long guns through USPS. You can also carry onto USPS property.


Guns OK in post office parking lots, federal judge rules - CNN.com

 

[CathyInBlue]

Being a Federal Employee myself I can tell you that it is a felony to bring a firearm on Federal Property. Sign is on my office door, its on the Post Office door and if you click on the link in my prior post you will see that you CANNOT mail a firearm unless you are FFL holder. So if you arent a FFL holder and you walk into a post office with a handgun (even in a sealed box ready to be mailed)....it is a FELL UN EEE. Says so right on the door and i believe the USC is even listed on the Post Office door signs.
18 USC 1930 covers federal property in general and the USPS has their own specific 39 USC 410.

Bonidy v. United States Postal Service

 

[stephen87]

Cathy, the link I posted references Bonidy v USPS. Unfortunately, federal courts ruled that it only applies to the parking lot and not the interior.

 

[remauto1187]

Refresh and read the edited post.

As far as the post office goes, it seems you are correct on carrying INTO the post office. HOWEVER, it apparently only applies to handguns as you can legally ship long guns through USPS. You can also carry onto USPS property.


Guns OK in post office parking lots, federal judge rules - CNN.com

The OP had a handgun ...so its safe to assume that all (except possibly you) were referring to HANDGUNS. I believe all my posts state HANDGUNS so the long guns references are moot. Its very hard to mail a handgun ....from the freakin parking lot!

I already knew it was legal to ship a long gun via the USPS and have done so many times, that is why I never mentioned long guns being illegal to ship.

 

[stephen87]

My original post was that putting a handgun in a mailbox does NOT equate to attempting to mail a handgun. Mailing a handgun is not illegal, only against USPS policy. Therefore, your entire argument is moot.

Also, you stated (and I quote) "Bringing ANY gun on any other Federal Property is a Felony" and "Being a Federal Employee myself I can tell you that it is a felony to bring a firearm on Federal Property. Sign is on my office door, its on the Post Office door and if you click on the link in my prior post you will see that you CANNOT mail a firearm unless you are FFL holder." My post, straight from the ATF, showed that you can mail firearms through USPS and common carriers such as FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. The link that you posted said that handguns are nonmailable, yet unloaded long guns that were not class III are mailable. My argument is no longer moot, I will now accept your argument as well.

 

[jbombelli]

The OP had a handgun ...so its safe to assume that all (except possibly you) were referring to HANDGUNS. I believe all my posts state HANDGUNS so the long guns references are moot. Its very hard to mail a handgun ....from the freakin parking lot!

I already knew it was legal to ship a long gun via the USPS and have done so many times, that is why I never mentioned long guns.

My local post office has drive - up mailboxes. It's not that hard to mail a handgun from the "freakin' parking lot."

 

[remauto1187]

My original post was that putting a handgun in a mailbox does NOT equate to attempting to mail a handgun. Mailing a handgun is not illegal, only against USPS policy. Therefore, your entire argument is moot.

Incorrect again..... Mailing a handgun and not being a FFL would require a dipshi^ to walk into the USPS with a HANDGUN....has to be in possession to mail the darn thing...which would be on Federal Property (USPS)...ILLEGALLY is very much illegal. Read the Code! I already posted the code for you.....do I really need to do it again?
Ill tell you what....go try it and be sure to announce that you have a handgun in a post office and that you arent a FFL holder and want to mail the handgun. Ask for the postal inspector...If you dont post it on youtube...then it didnt happen. And no I wont help on bail...because it aint gonna be cheap, the Feds aren't near as "forgiving" as the local PD could be. They will hang you after they keep you locked up long enough that your family wont remember you. Feelin lucky? Youtube it!

 

[remauto1187]

My local post office has drive - up mailboxes. It's not that hard to mail a handgun from the "freakin' parking lot."

Big enough for packages or are you referring to letter mail boxes?

 

[stephen87]

I'll tell you what. Why don't you quit being thick headed and read what I ****ing posted. PUTTING A HANDGUN IN A MAILBOX DOES NOT EQUATE TO ATTEMPTING TO MAIL A HANDGUN. Do I need to slow it down, or do you think you have it? Mailing a handgun is NOT illegal. If it were, then you could not mail it through USPS, FedEx, UPS, DHL, et ****ing cetera. USPS will not ship handguns. DHL will. UPS will. FedEx will. You must declare it.

You can mail a firearm through USPS as long as it isn't a handgun or a class III. You can mail ARs, you can mail AKs, Mosins, Remingtons, Mossbergs, etc. You can mail a ****ing long gun through USPS, you can mail a handgun through a common carrier. Not illegal.

 

[remauto1187]

I'll tell you what. Why don't you quit being a thick headed little ***** and read what I ****ing posted. PUTTING A HANDGUN IN A MAILBOX DOES NOT EQUATE TO ATTEMPTING TO MAIL A HANDGUN. Do I need to slow it down, or do you think you have it? Mailing a handgun is NOT illegal. If it were, then you could not mail it through USPS, FedEx, UPS, DHL, et ****ing cetera. USPS will not ship handguns. DHL will. UPS will. FedEx will. You must declare it.

You can mail a firearm through USPS as long as it isn't a handgun or a class III. You can mail ARs, you can mail AKs, Mosins, Remingtons, Mossbergs, etc. You can mail a ****ing long gun through USPS, you can mail a handgun through a common carrier. Not illegal.

How exactly do you "mail" anything through fedex or UPS or even DHl? You mean ship? The US MAIL carries "mail" and packages too. Once again, I never stated the USPS would not ship a long gun...i never mentioned long guns at all.
What you did say was this... "Not what I mean. Putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm, which by the way, is NOT illegal." Is that not what you wrote? Does it not say that "to mail a firearm is not illegal"?

As for your weak attempts at trying to insult me with juvenile language...well Ive been called alot worse by much better men than you AND have been called worse by juveniles....but they just ended up with a fist to their mouth to teach them a valid and educational lesson. Lucky for me I have grown older and much wiser so ....no busted up knuckles for me. Good luck to you kid...you are gonna need it.

The mere act of walking into the post office with a handgun and not being an FFL makes it illegal being that you are on Federal Property with a handgun. So entering the front door and before you even make it to the counter to say "I want to mail this handgun and Im not an FFL" makes you guilty of a Felony. So yes...attempting to mail a handgun and NOT being a FFL is Illegal.

Looks like your edit was a little too late. My quote documented it.

 

[stephen87]

How exactly do you "mail" anything through fedex or UPS or even DHl? You mean ship? The US MAIL carries "mail" and packages too. Once again, I never stated the USPS would not ship a long gun...i never mentioned long guns at all.
What you did say was this... "Not what I mean. Putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm, which by the way, is NOT illegal." Is that not what you wrote? Does it not say that "to mail a firearm is not illegal"?

As for your weak attempts at trying to insult me with juvenile language...well Ive been called alot worse by much better men than you AND have been called worse by juveniles....but they just ended up with a fist to their mouth to teach them a valid and educational lesson. Lucky for me I have grown older and much wiser so ....no busted up knuckles for me. Good luck to you kid...you are gonna need it.

Looks like your edit was a little too late. My quote documented it.

Yes, I did say that putting a gun in a mailbox does not equate to trying to mail a firearm. Maybe if you read the entire thread, you would see what I was referring to. Instead you decided to jump in mid-thread and tell me that I was wrong. That "mailing a firearm without an FFL is a federal offense." Is that not what you said? Shipping and mailing is the same damned thing. Again, mailing a firearm is NOT illegal. You do not need an FFL to mail it nor do you need on to ship it.

Good for you. You gonna come to Indy so I can "end up with a fist in my mouth?" You gonna "teach me a valid and educational lesson?" Of course not, because you've "grown older and wiser." Which just means you ain't got the guts to do it because it's the internet.

I don't care that it documented it. What are they gonna do? Tell me not to do it again? WHOO!

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

OP. As you can see in this thread there are opinions about everything. Even have a running argument over postal regulations. You are 100% correct for contacting Guy Relford. Listen to him and only him.