Haley 2024?

[KG1]

Well hold on. saying that one has an advantage over the other implies that both have a similar problem, but overall, one is better. I'm not a religious person now, but the way I looked at it when I was, if I were going to choose who I vote for as the person who upholds righteousness, I couldn't vote for anyone. However, we have the choices we have. So hold your nose for the least worse, and then God will put into power whom he will, according to Romans chapter 1. Excluding someone because they're not Godly means you just can't vote.

Well my whole point was if you are going that route then be consistent and don't bring up the sacred vows character issue for anyone.

 

[jamil]

Do you understand when one deal is better than another deal, even though both deals include drawbacks?

What matters more for a president, his home life or his policy that allows you to start a family, own a home, and raise a new generation?

I think of voting as not voting for a person, but an expected outcome. So to some extent, yeah, ethics and morals of the candidate matter, but especially to the extent that it impacts the desired outcome.

I'd rather not vote for a porn star ****er. I'd rather not vote for a married man who autographs other women's chests, even if he sought her man's consent; he didn't seek his wife's. That's a character problem.

I'd rather not vote for a woman who cheated on her husband several times, because that's a character problem.

Character problems suggest a higher potential for corruption. That impacts outcome. Is it a deal breaker to vote for either? No. Who provides the best potential for an outcome you want? Hold your nose and vote for that.

If you're arguing that you'd rather be homeless and economically destitute but know this guy 1500 miles away is living a cleaner life than the next guy, I'd think you have a screw loose.

 

[jamil]

Well my whole point was if you are going that route then be consistent and don't bring up the sacred vows character issue for anyone.

I think we care too much about hypocrisy. I mean no one is immune from inconsistencies. Let's forgive perceived hypocrisy. Okay. so that said, I think there's a difference depending on what we're saying.

If we're saying, I'm not going to focus on Trump's character issues I don't like, because voting for him has the best potential outcome, it's not inconsistent to point out Haley, because that shows she has no more moral high ground than Trump.

However, if you say it's not a moral problem for Trump to do it, but you do think it's a moral problem for Haley, that's a problem with consistency.

 

[Tombs]

I think of voting as not voting for a person, but an expected outcome. So to some extent, yeah, ethics and morals of the candidate matter, but especially to the extent that it impacts the desired outcome.

I'd rather not vote for a porn star ****er. I'd rather not vote for a married man who autographs other women's chests, even if he sought her man's consent; he didn't seek his wife's. That's a character problem.

I'd rather not vote for a woman who cheated on her husband several times, because that's a character problem.

Character problems suggest a higher potential for corruption. That impacts outcome. Is it a deal breaker to vote for either? No. Who provides the best potential for an outcome you want? Hold your nose and vote for that.

Has it proven to be an issue in his policies or deals he made with other nations? It's not like he doesn't have a track record we can look at to establish whether his home life affects his policies.

 

[jamil]

Has it proven to be an issue in his policies or deals he made with other nations? It's not like he doesn't have a track record we can look at to establish whether his home life affects his policies.

I hope you didn't get out of that post that I'm saying don't vote for Trump because he ****ed a porn star. You hold your nose because the outcome is more likely a better one that voting for someone else.

We do have a track record of his policies. Not all his policies are all that great.

 

[JTScribe]

Do you understand when one deal is better than another deal, even though both deals include drawbacks?

What matters more for a president, his home life or his policy that allows you to start a family, own a home, and raise a new generation?

If you're arguing that you'd rather be homeless and economically destitute but know this guy 1500 miles away is living a cleaner life than the next guy, I'd think you have a screw loose.

You would think the last 3.5 years would have reinforced that, but ...

 

[BugI02]

Make no mistake I'm not condoning what Haley has allegedly done. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

You keep using that word, but ...

Hypocrisy refers to advocating behaviors that one does not practice. Please do tell me which of my vows to God I have broken? I'll wait

As I mentioned before, I'm not foolish enough to believe I can control anyone's behavior but my own - and you might remember, I said I wasn't hiring him to be my pastor or my friend, I'm hiring him because he is the best man for the job of beginning to turn this country around (again)

 

[BugI02]

Do you understand when one deal is better than another deal, even though both deals include drawbacks?

What matters more for a president, his home life or his policy that allows you to start a family, own a home, and raise a new generation?

If you're arguing that you'd rather be homeless and economically destitute but know this guy 1500 miles away is living a cleaner life than the next guy, I'd think you have a screw loose.

I tried to explain that to them before. The analogy I used was I was hiring Trump to dot a job and would you care more about if a plumber or electrician you wanted to hire was faithful to his wife or if he was known to be reliable and do good work

What I think it is is they get some kind of sad, sick little joy about dwelling on the flaws of someone who as done more for America First than they ever will by only being willing to put down the Oreos on Election Day and pull the lever for Trump while feigning the vapors

 

[BugI02]

Well my whole point was if you are going that route then be consistent and don't bring up the sacred vows character issue for anyone.

You might notice that I didn't bring it up. I said Haley broke her vow to God and if someone would break a vow like that why wouldn't they break other, lesser vows such as campaign promises. When asked, I freely admitted that Trump had done the same thing with his marital vows but pointed out he has a record we can use to judge his fealty to such lesser vows, something we do not have with Haley

Trump earned his pass for good behavior in areas of more concern. His infidelity concerns mainly him and those in his immediate circle, his political performance concerns us all

 

[foszoe]

You might notice that I didn't bring it up. I said Haley broke her vow to God

Has she claimed to have made a vow to God?

My plumber doesn't have the same authority as the President. I mean people want the President to have absolute immunity.

I would never grant that to my plumber.

If he floods the house I want to hold him responsible

 

[BugI02]

Has she claimed to have made a vow to God?

My plumber doesn't have the same authority as the President. I mean people want the President to have absolute immunity.

I would never grant that to my plumber.

If he floods the house I want to hold him responsible

I don't know, she might have married in a Unitarian Universalist ceremony and made her vows to The Great Spirit

 

[JettaKnight]

Trump earned his pass for good behavior in areas of more concern. His infidelity concerns mainly him and those in his immediate circle, his political performance concerns us all

It's amazing what we're now willing to overlook when just a generation ago... well the ad is for cigarettes.



I don't understand - we're fighting for supposedly Christians values and for a Christian country, but our chosen leader is one of the the most un-Christ-like individuals...


Welcome to post-Christian America, where everything is politicized, and the eternal victory has been replaced by the short term political victory.

 

[Ingomike]

I don't understand - we're fighting for supposedly Christians values and for a Christian country, but our chosen leader is one of the the most un-Christ-like individuals...

Does God achieve his ends with only “Christ-like individuals”?

 

[foszoe]

Does God achieve his ends with only “Christ-like individuals”?

No.

Read Matthew 1

 

[Tombs]

I hope you didn't get out of that post that I'm saying don't vote for Trump because he ****ed a porn star. You hold your nose because the outcome is more likely a better one that voting for someone else.

We do have a track record of his policies. Not all his policies are all that great.

Were his bad policies a result of the corruption you believe would stem from infidelity?

I'm just seeing if you actually believe in the concern you raised.

 

[Tombs]

It's amazing what we're now willing to overlook when just a generation ago... well the ad is for cigarettes.



I don't understand - we're fighting for supposedly Christians values and for a Christian country, but our chosen leader is one of the the most un-Christ-like individuals...


Welcome to post-Christian America, where everything is politicized, and the eternal victory has been replaced by the short term political victory.

You have a devout catholic in the white house right now.

How's that working out?

And the most religious of the lot usually end up being more concerned with being president of nations on the other side of the planet than our own and our people. There's a fakeness and inauthenticity with all of those types, usually to the extent I'd argue that Trump is of better character, at least he cares more about this country than another. And I don't have to guess about his motives or goals.

 

[edporch]

Is there some data point that is indicative of one who would never lie to us?

Of course not, because we're talking about people, and ALL of us are flawed to some degree.

I was just pointing out one of the red flags ("data points") I've seen in real life where people I've known who are unfaithful to their spouse, tend to less trustworthy on average in other ways.
YMMV

 

[Tombs]

Of course not, because we're talking about people, and ALL of us are flawed to some degree.

I was just pointing out one of the red flags ("data points") I've seen in real life where people I've known who are unfaithful to their spouse, tend to less trustworthy on average in other ways.
YMMV

I think unfaithfulness is a bit more complicated when you're famous and worth billions.

To spell it out, finding a good wife is difficult as it is. Now imagine you have billions and they want your money.

 

[jamil]

Were his bad policies a result of the corruption you believe would stem from infidelity?

I'm just seeing if you actually believe in the concern you raised.

The point is that infidelity has an underlying cause. It's a character flaw. It's not like he's perfect, but for that one weakness for fake boobs and a horse faces. It's evidence of deeper character issues. And not that he was merely unfaithful to his wife, but that his larger than life, "grab them by the *****" personality could get away with doing what he pleased to others, regardless of how it might hurt them. Damn straight that's going to affect what he does in office, when he feels like he's above rules, even to break vows.

And, you're changing the standard here. We're now talking about whether his character affects just policy. I say it does, because character determines how you think about things. But it's more. I should have challenged that it's only policy that matters.

Let's say Trump, with all his character proclivities to **** horse face porn stars while his wife is pregnant, has 100% best policies. But, because of the character issues underlying his infidelity, he fails to implement them. Not saying that ****ing porn stars is what caused his failures. It's the underlying character.

He had two years of GOP leadership in both Houses. Trumpers talk a lot about how hard his enemies worked against him, and they're right. No one breathing has ever seen a President treated like Trump was. But, Trump helped that out by his own behavior.

The narcissistic **** the porn stars, grab them by their *****, entitled attitude, is but one indicator of deeper flaws, but it's one of the behaviors that makes it so easy to straw man him. Enemies don't need as much straw to make people believe it. His behavior helped Democrats create an environment that made it hard for Republicans to ally with him, to help him with his legislative agenda. Republicans distanced themselves, for fear they'd lose their own elections. Yes, part of the problem was feckless, spineless chamber-o-commerce neocons. Still.

So yeah, I believe character matters. And I'm holding my nose in November, unless they find a way to take him out.

 

[jamil]

I don't know, she might have married in a Unitarian Universalist ceremony and made her vows to The Great Spirit

I think I read that her husband is Methodist. She was a Sikh before she ran for SC governor. She converted to Christianity. But it's unknown whether her change was legitimate, convenient because of her husband, or because being a politician in the South requires a bit more lip service to Christianity.

But in terms of making a vow to God, almost no one getting married today thinks of it as that. Likewise, when they break their wedding vows, they don't think of it as breaking a vow to God, if even they think of God when they do it. I strongly suspect she didn't give a **** about marriage vows, or her husband. That's the part that's problematic for me.

Politicians themselves need to keep their legs closed, or peckers in their pants. Never know when it's a Chinese operative who can overlook a farting mark.