Had a deputy sheriff bust my chops...

[Blackhawk2001]

A couple comments about recent posts (there will be some redundancy, please forgive it). Re: Manan's comment about Special Deputies working for the Sheriff. They may be expanding outside their training, but they're not expanding outside their authority. They are "non-merit Sheriff's police officers", have completed the _minimum_ required training to be Indiana Law Enforcement Officers (although some long-timers have had significantly more training), so they have full police powers. That some of them don't know how or when to apply that authority, is a policy/training issue.

I started training to be a Marion County Special Deputy in 1998. At that time, and for several years afterward, we were taught that the "Shall Issue" license was for concealed carry. As Special Deputies, we usually got a copy of "relevant" Indiana Laws from someone (I don't remember who - or who published the book) once every year or so. Beyond the basic handgun law, I couldn't find any of the restrictions that I _knew_ were in place (i.e. no carry at commercial airports, government buildings, etc.). I never knew until this year that there was an ordinance banning carry in our City Parks. The information just wasn't being made available. That is why individual LEO knowledge is so spotty in various areas of the law. If they haven't dealt with it in the past, they may not know the relevant law. And that is understandable; who besides (spit) _lawyers and future lawyers_ wants to sit around for years reading statutes.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

So, I just started open carrying, but I have read the laws and Indiana constitution...
So, I was at speedway gas station on 52nd and Laffayette Rd just a few minutes ago grabbin a pack of ciggs and an ice tea. I was open carrying my 1911, so I got in line and i hear "you can't open cary that"... I ask well who are you? He replied, "im a deputy with the marion county sheriffs dept. I asked if i can see his ID he then askes me for mine, i politely ask him if i can see his first, he whips it out and is like "yea, how about that" (duputy TIM DAVIS for the record)... so I give him my DL and my LTCH. He then procedes to lecture me that Indiana is a conceal carry state only... I dissagreed. So now that he's got his chest puffed out like an ape, he says "well why don't we just step out to my car and I'll call IMPD and they'll come up here and take away your gun and your licence. I said, sir, I'd be more than happy to step outside with you while you call IMPD... So he does, a few minutes they roll up. I was dissarmed and i gave them my DL and my LTCH... They check it and of course Im clean. The LEO comes back with my weapon in hand and says to the now firey red deputy that he checks out and he gives me back my weapon. The deputy is STILL trying to despute that INDIANA IS A CONCEAL STATE ONLY... WRONG, WRONG WRONG... this just happened to me so sorry if this is like a rant.

I have always carried my gun concealed, thank you for this story.
But I would like to ask you this do you not feel more vulnerable to someone who might come up behind you or just be behind you while you're standing in line & say reach for a pack of gum or something like that & someone tries to take it from you while your gun hand is outstretched for an item?

 

[Protest]

I have always carried my gun concealed, thank you for this story.
But I would like to ask you this do you not feel more vulnerable to someone who might come up behind you or just be behind you while you're standing in line & say reach for a pack of gum or something like that & someone tries to take it from you while your gun hand is outstretched for an item?

It's called SA, or, Situational Awareness. I open carry and make it my business to know who's around me at ALL times. It doesn't matter if I'm standing in line at a store or have my back to a wall, I ALWAYS know who's around me.

It's the same way with driving. All drivers should know what cars are directly next to and behind at any given time so that adequate evasion can be taken in case of negligent driving on the other driver's part.

 

[Joe Williams]

I have always carried my gun concealed, thank you for this story.
But I would like to ask you this do you not feel more vulnerable to someone who might come up behind you or just be behind you while you're standing in line & say reach for a pack of gum or something like that & someone tries to take it from you while your gun hand is outstretched for an item?

There is an increased risk of that happening when you OC. You must be aware of what you are doing, and who is around you. For example, reach for things with your weak hand. And carrying a knife or backup gun for the weak hand is a good idea whether you are OCing or CCing, and the situation you describe is one reason why.

 

[dross]

If they haven't dealt with it in the past, they may not know the relevant law. And that is understandable; who besides (spit) _lawyers and future lawyers_ wants to sit around for years reading statutes.

But if I run afoul of the law, the excuse that I didn't know the law will only make some (spit) _LEOs laugh. And then my best friend is a ( )_lawyer.

 

[pillsbury1983]

Who is a Marion County Deputy now? I thought that IPD and the Sheriff's Deputies were merged into the IMPD. Was this guy a jailer??

With the exception of the Sheriff, Chief Deputy and Executive Officer there are only a handful of Merit Deputies left on the department. Merit Deputies were merged into IMPD. All other personnel are Special Deputies and they were were not merged. Unless the legislature enacts a new law, all counties must have a Sheriff. MCSD is the only Sheriff in the state that does not have a law enforcement service area. From the merger MCSD is only responsible for the jail, courts, civil process and warrant service.

Special Deputies employed by MCSD have full police powers off-duty anywhere in the state.

 

[jboritzki]

I had a BGPD cop tell me one time "Unless that's a pop gun, you better cover that up". Bending down to the lower shelf in the store caused my t-shirt to ride up over the grip of my 1911 and I had not noticed. I asked him "What?" He pulled out his badge and repeated himself. I put my shirt back over my pistol, partly because I was not trying to open carry, and partly because, at the time (years ago) I didn't know what the law was. If that happened today, I think I would have still pulled my shirt back over my gun and then told him that you CAN LEGALLY open carry in Indiana.

 

[MinuteMan47]

It's called SA, or, Situational Awareness. I open carry and make it my business to know who's around me at ALL times. It doesn't matter if I'm standing in line at a store or have my back to a wall, I ALWAYS know who's around me.

It's the same way with driving. All drivers should know what cars are directly next to and behind at any given time so that adequate evasion can be taken in case of negligent driving on the other driver's part.

That's also what retention holsters are for. If somebody tried to grab my pistol they would get a fist to the jaw after they struggled to unholster it from me...

 

[Roadie]

I have always carried my gun concealed, thank you for this story.
But I would like to ask you this do you not feel more vulnerable to someone who might come up behind you or just be behind you while you're standing in line & say reach for a pack of gum or something like that & someone tries to take it from you while your gun hand is outstretched for an item?

Yep, this is exactly why Police Officers carry concealed...oh, wait, never mind

 

[Denny347]

I rest my right hand on my pistol (more the holster than the grip) all the time when in uniform. It is a convenient place to rest your hand and it just makes me feel better, even with a retention holster. I always keep my gun hand open, but that is a good habit whether you conceal or open carry. I found that when I walk though a crowded area, causing me to brush up against someone (or nearly so) I always place my strong hand over the top of my holster. I do that as well if I am in a line with people standing behind me. Situational awareness. Do not want to get shot with my own pistol.

 

[Protest]

That's also what retention holsters are for. If somebody tried to grab my pistol they would get a fist to the jaw after they struggled to unholster it from me...

I have a retention holster and it works well, but I never fully trust in inanimate objects. Our wits must always be about us.

I rest my right hand on my pistol (more the holster than the grip) all the time when in uniform. It is a convenient place to rest your hand and it just makes me feel better, even with a retention holster. I always keep my gun hand open, but that is a good habit whether you conceal or open carry. I found that when I walk though a crowded area, causing me to brush up against someone (or nearly so) I always place my strong hand over the top of my holster. I do that as well if I am in a line with people standing behind me. Situational awareness. Do not want to get shot with my own pistol.

I understand your position completely. As a non-LEO, I can't do that. It would make people nervous if I always looked ready to draw. I do however often rest my right forearm or elbow on the grip though since it's at the right position for that.

 

[MinuteMan47]

I have a retention holster and it works well, but I never fully trust in inanimate objects. Our wits must always be about us.

I understand your position completely. As a non-LEO, I can't do that. It would make people nervous if I always looked ready to draw. I do however often rest my right forearm or elbow on the grip though since it's at the right position for that.

Not disagreeing one bit.