Guy down range at USPSA Event

[JollyMon]

I think I would have myself

 

[Rob377]

Most likely he was pasting targets. I'm thinking the RO should have made sure lane was clear before starting. IMO.

he wasn't. He was chasing brass. At :31 you can clearly see the brass pick up thing he has in his left hand.

 

[rvb]

+1 thats all on the RO.

I would say the majority is on the RO. Where do you think a lawyer would put the blame? As a learning exercise, we can point out the failures:

Shooter:
As a shooter, I usually take a peak behind solid walls as well before I walk to the starting position vs just trusting it's clear. I'm usually doing final walk-through so it's easy to make sure everyone's done pasting and you're really up. If someone's still downrange, I get more time to walk it ...

RO:
the RO needs to be loud. Conversational "Make Ready" is a fail. Yell that sht out.... That's usually where these situations end. There's been many times when as the shooter I couldn't hear the MR through my earpro (and a couple of times I pretended I couldn't to get the RO to be louder), there's no way someone down range will hear that. RO needs to do a final walk-through back to front and walk back w/ the last guy down range (assuming you can't see all the way down range). This is all taught at RO school via power-point hell, but RO school isn't required except for major matches. It's good to mentor new ROs. Some old dogs will never learn new tricks.

Down-range guy:
If you're moving so slow pasting (or in this case brassing) that you're consistently the last guy down range, you need to hurry the F up, ask for help pasting, etc. When resetting, you need some awareness of what's going on. This guy's head was burried deep somewhere. I make a point to not stay hidden behind walls/barrels for long.

USPSA and other practical shooting sports have a phenomenal safety record. Lessons are being learned from this video. The fact that such a big deal is being made of it in the community is telling. It's unusual and scary.

Wonder if that guy will worry about brass any more until the squad is done shooting..

just my 2c

-rvb

 

[Rob377]

I occasionally get made fun of for my "RO voice" buts there's a reason I do it.


I also have to wonder if the RO checked the range, and THEN mr brass rat wandered out there while the RO was supervising the shooter making ready like he's supposed to. I don't know if that's what happened, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[rvb]

I occasionally get made fun of for my "RO voice" buts there's a reason I do it.


I also have to wonder if the RO checked the range, and THEN mr brass rat wandered out there while the RO was supervising the shooter making ready like he's supposed to. I don't know if that's what happened, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

same here on the 'RO voice.'

I've had that happen, too, but [so far] only in the start area... shooter is MR favoring left or right and brasser sneaks up on the other side...

I still think a USPSA match is safer than general range time, even at private ranges.....

-rvb

 

[ryan3030]

I still think a USPSA match is safer than general range time, even at private ranges.....

I just started shooting USPSA and it feels much safer than any public range I've ever been too.

 

[calcot7]

Holy S _ _ T!

 

[Rob377]

I just started shooting USPSA and it feels much safer than any public range I've ever been too.

for sure.

Ive been to ~100 matches in the last 3-4 years, and in those 100 matches, there's been nothing even close to the quantity and severity of safety issues I saw in my first 5 minutes at Wilbur wright or pop guns.

 

[ryan3030]

for sure.

Ive been to ~100 matches in the last 3-4 years, and in those 100 matches, there's been nothing even close to the quantity and severity of safety issues I saw in my first 5 minutes at Wilbur wright or pop guns.

Wilbur Wright scared the **** out of me.

 

[miguel]

This guy is probably happy he's now got someone to take the heat off him...

 

[riverman67]

Speaking as an ro that is some scary ****.
The video doesn't give us enough information about what went on before
The make ready was given. Did the ro check the stage?I don't know.
I try to walk back with the last guy downrange.
This is also the reason that I hate opaque vision barriers.

 

[TRWXXA]

And just to be clear... The correct phrasing isn't, "Hey! What the heck is going on?" It's, "CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!" (repeat as necessary).

 

[lovemachine]

The shooter is a Gunsite Grad.

 

[rvb]

And just to be clear... The correct phrasing isn't, "Hey! What the heck is going on?" It's, "CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!" (repeat as necessary).

the shooter said that, not the RO.

the correct phrasing for a USPSA match (which the RO issued, again, not very loudly and a little late...):
8.3.5 [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]"Stop[/FONT][/FONT]" – Any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue this command at any time during the course of fire. The competitor must immediately cease firing, stop moving and wait for further instructions from the Range Officer.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Somebody definitely dropped the ball on checking the range before the stage started.

That being said, I can't really fault anybody for not catching it sooner etc after the stage started. It sounds to me like the guy down-range, or a nearby person yelled, "HEY" and the RO immediately said stop (wasn't very loud and coincided with a gunshot in the background, but you can see the RO's head move as he says it), at which point the shooter turned around and asked, "What's going on?" and the RO repeated the "STOP" command, and somebody says, "Thank You!"

IMHO, judging by the fact that the guy down range was actually behind one of the targets, the viewing angle may have made it difficult for the RO to see him out of his peripheral vision to detect him sooner. I can't fault him for that. Also, the guy down-range clearly didn't know the stage had started until the last couple shots judging by his nonchalant demeanor that quickly turns to panic as you see him start to bend-down to hit the dirt (what else were his options?). I can't really fault him for his actions (as seen in the video) either.

Seems like a simple goof-up on the part of safety crew that could have been tragic. But I think all things considered, after the stage had begun and the goof was realized, the RO and others acted appropriately. It's easy to arm-chair quarterback but these things happen very quickly, peripheral vision isn't as good as some people must think it is.

 

[rhino]

Based on the rules, it's the RO's responsibility. Based on the reality of no one getting shot who isn't supposed to get shot, it's shared among the RO (who started the shooter before the range was clear), the shooter (who is ultimately responsible for every projectile that leaves his gun, regardless of the rules), and the guy who was downrange.

I would say the majority is on the RO. Where do you think a lawyer would put the blame? As a learning exercise, we can point out the failures:

Shooter:
As a shooter, I usually take a peak behind solid walls as well before I walk to the starting position vs just trusting it's clear. I'm usually doing final walk-through so it's easy to make sure everyone's done pasting and you're really up. If someone's still downrange, I get more time to walk it ...

RO:
the RO needs to be loud. Conversational "Make Ready" is a fail. Yell that sht out.... That's usually where these situations end. There's been many times when as the shooter I couldn't hear the MR through my earpro (and a couple of times I pretended I couldn't to get the RO to be louder), there's no way someone down range will hear that. RO needs to do a final walk-through back to front and walk back w/ the last guy down range (assuming you can't see all the way down range). This is all taught at RO school via power-point hell, but RO school isn't required except for major matches. It's good to mentor new ROs. Some old dogs will never learn new tricks.

Down-range guy:
If you're moving so slow pasting (or in this case brassing) that you're consistently the last guy down range, you need to hurry the F up, ask for help pasting, etc. When resetting, you need some awareness of what's going on. This guy's head was burried deep somewhere. I make a point to not stay hidden behind walls/barrels for long.

USPSA and other practical shooting sports have a phenomenal safety record. Lessons are being learned from this video. The fact that such a big deal is being made of it in the community is telling. It's unusual and scary.

Wonder if that guy will worry about brass any more until the squad is done shooting..

just my 2c

-rvb

 

[sdtech58]

Blame or no blame, your personal safety is your personal responsibility. Being relatively new to the shooting sports, my head is always on a swivel while I'm pasting targets. If I'm paying attention and realize I'm the only guy left downrange, I know to look around and make sure I know exactly what is going on around me. Good thing the guy didn't get plugged...

 

[rvb]

Based on the rules, it's the RO's responsibility.

which rule?

-rvb

 

[rvb]

I don't think this counts as a rule....
but I think RO school is where most are coming from that it's the RO's 'job.' And it is. But I can't find a "rule" to assign blame. And I think blame can be shared.... RO could have done a better 'job;' all could have been more safe.

About NROI - United States Practical Shooting Association

Range Officer's Creed
As a USPSA Range Officer, I shall conduct all competitions with the safety of the competitors, spectators and fellow Range Officials first and foremost in my thoughts and actions.
I shall always be courteous while maintaining firm control over my range and areas of responsibility.
I will always strive to be totally fair and impartial in my judgments.
Safety shall always be my primary goal, with efficiency and speed of the competition as secondary factors.
It is a privilege and an honor to serve as a Range Officer and I shall act accordingly.
It is my duty to assist all competitors in their attempts to accomplish their goals and not to hinder them by undue harassment and authoritarian behavior.
I shall put aside personal prejudices and act as an impartial judge at all times.
I shall keep my opinions to myself and shall not be critical of any individual beyond the field of contest.
I will thoroughly familiarize myself with all current regulations, match rules and attendant subjects.
I will be firm and fair in all judgmental calls made during the course of a stage, and be prepared to state in a clear and concise manner my reasons for such calls to the particular competitor or any Range Official.
During the course of a stage, my attention shall be clearly focused on the particular competitor I am assigned to observe, and I shall not permit my attention to be misdirected or lax.
Prior to and during a stage, I shall never consume any alcoholic beverage or narcotic. I understand that if I violate this rule, I may be suspended or barred from serving as a Range Official in the future.
I shall confer only with my fellow Range Officers and Match Officials concerning the behavior of any competitor and any decisions to be rendered.
I shall exercise due consideration for the personal emotions of any competitor, and shall act in a manner so as not to embarrass or disturb the competitor any more than is absolutely necessary.
I shall strive to never give even the appearance of wrongdoing.​

 

[jwh20]

That is just REALLY scary! That guy is fortunate to be alive! He could easily have been shot multiple times and I can't imagine how guilty the guy doing the shooting might have felt.

Clearly a procedural problem. Either their procedures are wrong or someone didn't follow them. Either way, a review and adjustment is absolutely in order. Shooting sports should be fun but they should be SAFE as a first priority.