Greed?

[echoagain]

There are two fundamental issues with respect to the orginal post. First, this situation is the inevitable result when a retailer refuses to raise prices, but continues to sell something at well below current market price even though the quantity demanded at that price far outstrips supply. Unfortunately this type of thing is driven by the many people (even though they may think of themselves as conservatives) would would get their panties in a bind if the retailer actually raised their prices like they should. If the wally employee weren't buying and reselling, someone else would be. Secondly, I continue to be amazed at people who continue to think that the sellers are the ones driving the high prices. This is only the case if one seller (or a small group of cooperating sellers) has control of the market. In a free economy, especially in the days of the internet, this type of situation is not sustainable.

The spike in prices is due to large numbers of folks who would otherwise not be buying weapons and ammo getting into the market. This is a good thing in the long run, for a lot of different reasons.

 

[TopDog]

My response's in red.

There are two fundamental issues with respect to the orginal post. First, this situation is the inevitable result when a retailer refuses to raise prices, but continues to sell something at well below current market price even though the quantity demanded at that price far outstrips supply. Unfortunately this type of thing is driven by the many people (even though they may think of themselves as conservatives) would would get their panties in a bind if the retailer actually raised their prices like they should. If the wally employee weren't buying and reselling, someone else would be.

Bull, you are just trying to justify the behavior. Retailers may just be thinking long term and have a little common sense. Not wanting to burn their long time customers for a short term gain. Perhaps they still want to be in business a year from now. Perhaps they want the guy that has been buying guns from them for years to continue to come back a happy customer.

Secondly, I continue to be amazed at people who continue to think that the sellers are the ones driving the high prices. This is only the case if one seller (or a small group of cooperating sellers) has control of the market. In a free economy, especially in the days of the internet, this type of situation is not sustainable.

No this is driven by fear mongering. Albeit there is more justification now than in the last four years. Bottom line the profiteers would not be attempting the outrageous prices they are now if the prices had not be artificially inflated over the last four years.

The spike in prices is due to large numbers of folks who would otherwise not be buying weapons and ammo getting into the market. This is a good thing in the long run, for a lot of different reasons.

Really? Got any verifiable proof of that? To some degree I am sure there are the newbies, uneducated, unwise but I don't think that is what is fueling this. There is no way to know how much is due to newbies and due to those that already own guns. Again fear mongering...

 

[Slawburger]

I blame politics for corrupting the meaning of the word "fair" (and for creating this situation to begin with).

People can justify their behavior as they wish. There is such a thing as being fair, decent and honorable without being a whiner, a loser, or weak.

If I could sell something for far more than it was worth to someone that didn't know any better, I wouldn't. If I sell something then I want what I consider to be a fair price. I would be ashamed if someone walked away from a deal with me and later realized "Hey, that dude ripped me off". Buying something you don't need from the store before anyone else can get to it (thereby perpetuating the shortage) and then selling it for a profit is just low.

I don't need any ammo but it galls me for people to suck all the fun out of a hobby because they have an inside track and can make a buck.

 

[JSVEND]

Obama says he wants to put a 500% tax increase on guns and ammo to lower the demand but he doesn’t have to. The threat of the tax has done the same thing by the hording profiteers. Obama is laughing his butt off right now. The guys I feel bad for are the guys who want to protect their family but can’t buy a gun or ammo and something really bad happens. Think about what you are doing. When you take all the ammo it not Capitalism it is WRONG. Is it really worth it.

 

[223 Gunner]

Obama says he wants to put a 500% tax increase on guns and ammo to lower the demand but he doesn’t have to. The threat of the tax has done the same thing by the hording profiteers. Obama is laughing his butt off right now. The guys I feel bad for are the guys who want to protect their family but can’t buy a gun or ammo and something really bad happens. Think about what you are doing. When you take all the ammo it not Capitalism it is WRONG. Is it really worth it.

Use your space bar please. That was a little hard to read. Thanks

 

[Jludo]

On the flip side, since I believe the bubble will pop soon. How can I short this inflated market and make a killing when the speculators are left holding the bag?

Isn't the answer in your question? Sell your ammo and guns short.

 

[Jludo]

It is kind of an odd situation though with retailers isn't it? Their prices are sticky because of how large an operation they are so the prices don't really move to equilibrium and employees or others take advantage.

Though I will say people blaming it on Capitalism are wrong, without the threat from government there wouldn't be a panic.

 

[Oresti]

Obama says he wants to put a 500% tax increase on guns and ammo to lower the demand but he doesn’t have to. The threat of the tax has done the same thing by the hording profiteers. Obama is laughing his butt off right now. The guys I feel bad for are the guys who want to protect their family but can’t buy a gun or ammo and something really bad happens. Think about what you are doing. When you take all the ammo it not Capitalism it is WRONG. Is it really worth it.

I am amazed at the number of Socialists on this site.

 

[Flyingbrian]

I am amazed at the number of Socialists on this site.

How did you get Socialist from that ???

 

[TopDog]

It is kind of an odd situation though with retailers isn't it? Their prices are sticky because of how large an operation they are so the prices don't really move to equilibrium and employees or others take advantage.

Though I will say people blaming it on Capitalism are wrong, without the threat from government there wouldn't be a panic.

There was no threat from the government from 2008 to 2012 and yet fear mongering inflated prices. We do this to ourselves. Not to say other factors don't come into play, but we remain our own worst enemy.

 

[echoagain]

My response's in red.

With regards to item #1, thank you for making my point. Retailers aren't raising prices because some consumers might get their feelings hurt and be mad at them for not being nice. The inevitable result is stripped out shelves and other folks who find ways to obtain and resale the items. If you don't believe that, than you obviously aren't paying attention. If you simply don't like that, well, that's life in the big city.

Regarding item #2, who do you think is doing the evil 'fear mongering?'. Seems to me the fears are legitimate, just ask some of the folks in New York or Colorado. And for what it's worth, I've not had any evil retailers contact me and try to scare me into buying their product at current market prices.

Regarding item #3, yes I do, at least informally. Any gunshop I've been to lately has been crazy busy. Gander Mountain was still taking numbers at the gun counter the other day, even during regular 'working hours' on a weekday. If you re-read my post, I did not contend that this was being driven by newbies per say. A lot of buyers are probably already gun owners, but they are worried about pending legislation (evil fear mongering dontcha know) and making purchases that they would not otherwise attempt to make. You don't need to be Adam Smith to figure out that it is this spike in demand (regardless of WHY there is a spike) that is causing prices to spike, not actions by retailers (evil or otherwise).

I don't like paying higher prices any more than anybody else, but it does serve as an economical signal to suppliers to crank up production and get more material into the hands of the consumers. This is a good thing, and prices will settle back down if it appears that the risk of bans has come and gone. I'm very sorry if you don't like the reality of the situation, but it is what it is. Sadly, it is people who complain about evil gouging and evil profiteering (I once sold a house for as much as the market would bear, I guess I am an evil profiteer!) that cause governments to get involved in free markets and really screw things up for everyone.

 

[TopDog]

Again I submit my response in red.

With regards to item #1, thank you for making my point. Retailers aren't raising prices because some consumers might get their feelings hurt and be mad at them for not being nice. The inevitable result is stripped out shelves and other folks who find ways to obtain and resale the items. If you don't believe that, than you obviously aren't paying attention. If you simply don't like that, well, that's life in the big city.

There is some merit in what you are trying to say once I cut through the sarcasm. I have been paying very close attention. Which is why last month I bought a rife from a LGS with mostly bare shelves at a very reasonable price. The point being a smart consumer is actually the retailers friend. The terms you are tying to put this into do not flesh out. If you don't believe that, then go talk to retailers that have been through this before and are still around while others have gone out of business.

Regarding item #2, who do you think is doing the evil 'fear mongering?'. Seems to me the fears are legitimate, just ask some of the folks in New York or Colorado. And for what it's worth, I've not had any evil retailers contact me and try to scare me into buying their product at current market prices.

The fear mongering promulgated by the pro gun community from 2008 to 2012 were not justified. If you think so then site some facts. Here is a fact, Obama brought on NO anti gun legislation from 2008 to 2012 that I know of. He only signed pro gun legislation as in allowing guns in parks. Then he sat back and watched the pro gun community tear itself apart with fear, raising prices artificially - no bases in fact for the fear. We are our own worst enemy and the left loves it.

My point if prices for example on ammo had not been doubled in 2008, profiteers would not be able to sell for the prices they are now. The result form prior fear mongering. Now there is some justification for the prices. See my tag line.

Regarding item #3, yes I do, at least informally. Any gunshop I've been to lately has been crazy busy. Gander Mountain was still taking numbers at the gun counter the other day, even during regular 'working hours' on a weekday. If you re-read my post, I did not contend that this was being driven by newbies per say. A lot of buyers are probably already gun owners, but they are worried about pending legislation (evil fear mongering dontcha know) and making purchases that they would not otherwise attempt to make. You don't need to be Adam Smith to figure out that it is this spike in demand (regardless of WHY there is a spike) that is causing prices to spike, not actions by retailers (evil or otherwise).

I concede this to you.

I don't like paying higher prices any more than anybody else, but it does serve as an economical signal to suppliers to crank up production and get more material into the hands of the consumers. This is a good thing, and prices will settle back down if it appears that the risk of bans has come and gone.

I am not paying higher prices. I am not subject to being scared into making a purchase. As you say no one likes to pay higher prices, so why would they? FEAR

I'm very sorry if you don't like the reality of the situation, but it is what it is. Sadly, it is people who complain about evil gouging and evil profiteering (I once sold a house for as much as the market would bear, I guess I am an evil profiteer!) that cause governments to get involved in free markets and really screw things up for everyone.

Thanks for your sympathy, but I assure you I don't need it, heartfelt or not. No one likes the situation, except for the ones profiteering. Yes it is what it is, a sad reflection on us as a group. (Bet you didn't go out and do something to artificially inflate the price of housing, now did you?)

 

[seldon14]

I wonder how Walmart management feels about this practice? Where I work, when a certain product is selling faster than than we can build them, we are prohibited from using our employee discount to buy them--partially for this same reason.

They can use this discount on whatever they want (well they don't get it on clearance and groceries and a few other things), buying stuff before it hits the shelves or holding stuff to buy later is against the rules though.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I blame politics for corrupting the meaning of the word "fair" (and for creating this situation to begin with).

People can justify their behavior as they wish. There is such a thing as being fair, decent and honorable without being a whiner, a loser, or weak.

If I could sell something for far more than it was worth to someone that didn't know any better, I wouldn't. If I sell something then I want what I consider to be a fair price. I would be ashamed if someone walked away from a deal with me and later realized "Hey, that dude ripped me off". Buying something you don't need from the store before anyone else can get to it (thereby perpetuating the shortage) and then selling it for a profit is just low.

I don't need any ammo but it galls me for people to suck all the fun out of a hobby because they have an inside track and can make a buck.

If someone is willing to pay what you are asking, shame on them. No one is forcing them to do so. They can spend their money however they see fit. If they did not do their homework first, that's their fault. Like I have said a million time. The buyers are enabling the sellers. Refuse to pay said prices, and things will normalize eventually. Once the sellers see they can not make a large profit anymore. However, people continue to buy. The question is, do you need it that bad? Honestly, how hard is it to understand. Stop paying rediculas prices. It's not helping the situation, yet the same people want to ***** and moan about it. When they are part of the problem.

 

[mikescetme]

Im waiting need 308 ammo but cant see paying silly money for it hope it gets back to normal soon

 

[japartridge]

As someone else up-thread mentioned the only solution to this situation is a societal one... it is people driving the price up. there is no way to fix that unless you fix the people. I just watched Atlas Shrugged Part 2 last night, and I'll deal with inflated prices for awhile to avoid government control of everything.

Oh, and to everyone whining about being fair, grow up, no one ever guaranteed anything to be fair! I'm far more concerned with what the .gov is doing than the fact that I paid $125 more last week for 7.62x39 than I did in late Nov. I bought the ammo at that price because I wanted it. I know I could have gotten it cheaper in a month or so (depending on what the .gov does) but I didn't want to take the chance of not being able to get it at all.

Back in Jan. I went to the Indy 1500, took a stripped lower I had sitting in the garage for over a year.. I wasn't doing anything with it, and had decided I really didn't want to mess with it. I didn't get 5 feet from the door and I had a guy asking what I wanted for it... I told him I just walked in, and didn't even know what they were going for yet. He told my he was seeing blems going for $300. I said, OK, I'll take $250 for my non blem PSA. He was back in 20 minutes peeling off bills. Did I profit? Of course I did, I bought it for $65 all told. Did I gouge the guy? No, If I would have said $400 maybe, but it is still the decision of the buyer.

You want prices to go down, don't buy, and convince everyone else not to by at ridiculous prices; otherwise, quit crying about it!

 

[Jludo]

There was no threat from the government from 2008 to 2012 and yet fear mongering inflated prices. We do this to ourselves. Not to say other factors don't come into play, but we remain our own worst enemy.

What was the cause of the fear mongering in 2008? Wasn't it that Obama was going to take everyone's guns?

 

[KJQ6945]

There was no threat from the government from 2008 to 2012 and yet fear mongering inflated prices. We do this to ourselves. Not to say other factors don't come into play, but we remain our own worst enemy.

Just because nothing actually happened doesn't mean there was no threat. Anytime the libs control the .gov there is a threat. They were to concerned with pushing health care through to worry about guns.

I spent nothing in 2008. They had bigger fish to fry. This time is different, we've got four years of them trying to take all they can. It's just getting started. 3 years from now, the "panic pricing" might be the good old days.

 

[hornadylnl]

Just because nothing actually happened doesn't mean there was no threat. Anytime the libs control the .gov there is a threat. They were to concerned with pushing health care through to worry about guns.

I spent nothing in 2008. They had bigger fish to fry. This time is different, we've got four years of them trying to take all they can. It's just getting started. 3 years from now, the "panic pricing" might be the good old days.

Up until the day of the last election, I was blamed for our guns getting banned because I refused to vote for Romney. Now magically, many of those same people blaming me now want to act like there is zero threat of a ban. Ranting about bans pre election is good because it manipulates votes. Now, it's bad because it's affecting their pocket books.

 

[danielson]

I'm 25 and I don't have to listen to stories.

I've watched the worst of the violently quick changes unfold in my lifetime and was aware of it throughout. Of course where I lived growing up was a bit behind the times, I didn't know what air conditioning was till I was well into double digits.

Hell, what I wouldn't give for things to go back to the way they were 15 years ago, minus the AWB.

I grew up similarly, and have lived in the city for the last 10 years or so, and I can tell you, the people back home have NO idea the way the majority of Americans chose to behave.. Its just not something you understand until youve lived in urban areas for awhile.

I find it amazing that when profiteers can not get their greed on they start complaining and crying for things like neg rep so they strike out against those that do think that greed is good.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...the_love_of_gawd_bring_back_negitive_rep.html

It can not be stopped. Not in the conventional sense. No more than you can stop people smoking, raping others, bulling others etc. You can not regulate peoples behavior. What you would have to do instill morals, a sense of right and wrong. And as long as greed is worshiped as a demigod you will not change people's minds. Just set back and watch the decline and laugh at those that contribute to the decline have the gall to complain about the decline of society that they participate in.

I very much agree.. I see people everyday who wish the world was better, but go right back to being a selfish animal, the second they are given the opportunity.

I blame politics for corrupting the meaning of the word "fair" (and for creating this situation to begin with).

People can justify their behavior as they wish. There is such a thing as being fair, decent and honorable without being a whiner, a loser, or weak.

If I could sell something for far more than it was worth to someone that didn't know any better, I wouldn't. If I sell something then I want what I consider to be a fair price. I would be ashamed if someone walked away from a deal with me and later realized "Hey, that dude ripped me off". Buying something you don't need from the store before anyone else can get to it (thereby perpetuating the shortage) and then selling it for a profit is just low.

I don't need any ammo but it galls me for people to suck all the fun out of a hobby because they have an inside track and can make a buck.

QFT

How did you get Socialist from that ???

Its called self preservation. Its easier to just debunk everyone who disagrees with you, than it is to question/criticize yourself.

This isnt a legal/illegal question.
This is a moral/immoral question.

Everyone is going to have their own ideas of what is moral, and right, and "fair"

No one can deny that we have descended to a level of selfishness on par with ancient Greece.

Those who choose to ignore history, are then doomed to repeat it.

When most people would agree, this country was at its finest, anyone would smack you across the face for even THINKING about this. But weve been on the decline for so long now, that statement will seem preposterous to most people.