Gov't power to shut down churches

[IndyDave1776]

McCarthy may have been correct (we don't really know what list of names he was referring to, or how many were actually spies) but he was not right in the sense of freedom.

To the extent there were socialists in gov't, that was their right to espouse whatever political beliefs they wanted. If they were spies, then they should have been prosecuted. If the gov't they worked for allowed them to share sensitive information, then that is on the gov't.

By the way, any sense of irony that gov't spying on USian citizens back then seemed a bit more tolerable? "The good old days weren't all so good...."

Not sure I am following...I don't understand how intercepting cables sent along analog lines with a definite geographic destination, like Moscow, for example, can be compared with the wholesale interception of most everything beyond speaking in person or sending smoke signals. If someone is communicating with a hostile foreign government, that strikes me as cause for a bit of scrutiny.

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps the youngsters forget just how hostile that foreign government was. Perhaps you should post the 'We will bury you' speech by Khrushchev, Dave.

 

[T.Lex]

Not sure I am following...I don't understand how intercepting cables sent along analog lines with a definite geographic destination, like Moscow, for example, can be compared with the wholesale interception of most everything beyond speaking in person or sending smoke signals. If someone is communicating with a hostile foreign government, that strikes me as cause for a bit of scrutiny.

When you put it like that, it actually sounds like the blueprint for the NSA program.

Perhaps the youngsters forget just how hostile that foreign government was. Perhaps you should post the 'We will bury you' speech by Khrushchev, Dave.

Let's use the version with the proper translation, eh? I mean, speaking of painful-stupid, the version made popular in American culture at the time was absolutely NOT what was said or meant.

I am also a child of the Cold War, and spent part of my childhood on what might've been considered the front lines. I can still see McCarthy as an example of how we should not behave as a freedom-loving democracy. I'd rank his escapades as not-as-bad-as Japanese internment, but still pretty bad.

 

[IndyDave1776]

When you put it like that, it actually sounds like the blueprint for the NSA program.



Let's use the version with the proper translation, eh? I mean, speaking of painful-stupid, the version made popular in American culture at the time was absolutely NOT what was said or meant.

I am also a child of the Cold War, and spent part of my childhood on what might've been considered the front lines. I can still see McCarthy as an example of how we should not behave as a freedom-loving democracy. I'd rank his escapades as not-as-bad-as Japanese internment, but still pretty bad.

Not really. I fail to see a valid comparison between intercepting communications which definitively had the Soviet government as the recipient and intercepting every single piece of electronic communication of any kind. I understand that this is disturbingly similar to the bill of goods we were sold regarding the Patriot Act, but in that case, what we were sold and what we received are two entirely different things.

 

[jamil]

Well I have researched it even more and IndyDave1776 is right and you are wrong. I know it, you know it and the INGOistas know it. You are simply an example of the adage that a lie told often enough becomes the truth.

Is that pronounced "in-go-EES-tas" or "in-GWEES-tas"?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is that pronounced "in-go-EES-tas" or "in-GWEES-tas"?

Both sound like they should make decent coffee, but at high prices.

 

[Expat]

Is that pronounced "in-go-EES-tas" or "in-GWEES-tas"?

I use the first in my head when I think it, but the second does sound kewler

 

[Expat]

Both sound like they should make decent coffee, but at high prices.

Yeah, way more expensive than what the waitress brings me...

 

[jamil]

Both sound like they should make decent coffee, but at high prices.

Heine Bros in Louisville is kinda spendy but it's really good coffee. An INGOista should be able to charge accordingly.

 

[T.Lex]

When caramel macchiatos are outlawed, only outlaws will have overpriced prissy drinks.

 

[BugI02]

When caramel macchiatos are outlawed, only outlaws will have [STRIKE]overpriced prissy drinks[/STRIKE] coffee drinks for people who don't want to taste the coffee.

.

 

[printcraft]

Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis | Frontpage Mag

 

[jamil]

Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis | Frontpage Mag

Yeah, but he was a right wing wacko like Trump.

 

[IndyDave1776]

When caramel macchiatos are outlawed, only outlaws will have overpriced prissy drinks.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis | Frontpage Mag

Misleading headline is misleading. I'm sure with a splash title reading "INSIDE EVERY LIBERAL IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" it's going to be a fair and balanced piece....

Carter orders 50,000 Iranian students in US to report to immigration office with view to deporting those in violation of their visas. On 27 December 1979, US appeals court allows deportation of Iranian students found in violation.

Uh, well, yeah. Anyone violating their visa should pack it up and head back home.

Now unlike Muslims, Iranians were not necessarily supportive of Islamic terrorism. Many were and are opponents of it. Khomeini didn't represent Iran as a country, but his Islamist allies. So Trump's proposal is far more legitimate than Carter's action. Carter targeted people by nationality. Trump's proposal does so by ideology.

Riiiight. Because Muslims all have the same ideology, and that's terrorism is awesome. Fact. This "media outlet" said so.

It also ignores the context. It was not a national security measure, as Trump claims his plan is, it was part of a wide variety of sanctions to pressure the government. Think Cuban trade embargo.

Jimmy Carter: Sanctions Against Iran Remarks Announcing U.S. Actions.

It must be made clear that the failure to release the hostages will involve increasingly heavy costs to Iran and to its interests. I have today ordered the following steps.First, the United States of America is breaking diplomatic relations with the Government of Iran. The Secretary of State has informed the Government of Iran that its Embassy and consulates in the United States are to be closed immediately. All Iranian diplomatic and consular officials have been declared persona non grata and must leave this country by midnight tomorrow.
Second, the Secretary of the Treasury will put into effect official sanctions prohibiting exports from the United States to Iran, in accordance with the sanctions approved by 10 members of the United Nations Security Council on January 13 in the resolution which was vetoed by the Soviet Union. Although shipment of food and medicine were not included in the U.N. Security Council vote, it is expected that exports even of these items to Iran will be minimal or nonexistent.
Third, the Secretary of Treasury will make a formal inventory of the assets of the Iranian Government, which were frozen by my previous order, and also will make a census or an inventory of the outstanding claims of American citizens and corporations against the Government of Iran. This accounting of claims will aid in designing a program against Iran for the hostages, for the hostage families, and other U.S. claimants. We are now preparing legislation, which will be introduced in the Congress, to facilitate processing and paying of these claims.
Fourth, the Secretary of Treasury [State] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly.

So help me understand how this is the same as Trump's plan, who this is intended to pressure, and for what purpose other than getting Trump media attention and furthering the Muslims = bad narrative?

C'mon.

 

[Denny347]

Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis | Frontpage Mag

Not even close to the same thing. Not sure why some many people are comparing the two without seeing the obvious differences.

 

[T.Lex]

Not even close to the same thing. Not sure why some many people are comparing the two without seeing the obvious differences.

Welcome to INGO. You must be new here.

 

[Denny347]

Welcome to INGO. You must be new here.

 

[printcraft]

Not even close to the same thing. Not sure why some many people are comparing the two without seeing the obvious differences.

Differences yes....... precedent for all the cries of unconstitutionality.

 

[T.Lex]

So here is an interesting twist:
Pastor James McConnell: Trial begins over Islam broadcast - BBC News

Pastor James McConnell denies two charges relating to a sermon he gave in a Belfast church last year.
Belfast Magistrates' Court heard that Pastor McConnell called Islam "satanic" and "heathen".
His remarks were made at the Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle in north Belfast in May 2014 and were streamed online.
Pastor McConnell, 78, of Shore Road in Newtownabbey, County Antrim, is charged with improper use of a public electronic communications network and causing a grossly offensive message to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network.