Getting Pulled over w/ Gun in car

[darrent]

Whatever you do...don't grab for the gun to show the officer (had this happen once - almost had to drop him).

 

[Bill of Rights]

The State is not suggesting that anyone's life or safety is more important than anyone else. This a tool given to LE due there interactions with some people that are not upstanding citizens. You must understand that a majority of people that are stopped or interact with officers are strangers. The officer has no idea what your mental state is, if you just robbed the local 7.11 or you are a member of the church choir on your way to church after saving a bus load of orphans from drowning.

In other words, you can be a great guy but the officer has no way of knowing that. It is a fact of the job that you must threat everyone as they may harm you.

Conversely, I have no way of knowing that the officer (or "officer") is not going to, as I've heard some joke, "violate my civil rights" just because s/he has a power s/he is allowed to use or abuse without penalty. if in fact no one's safety is more important than anyone else's, why can I not demand that the officer hand me his/her gun "for his/her and my safety"?

If you are only being searched, even if handcuffs, you are not under arrest. You are being detained. Once handcuffed you are not free to go, but not under arrest. If you have committed a crime, say DUI, and are in possession of a handgun with a LTCH you have not committed an additional crime. In the above case the subject was in possession of narcotics, which being in possession of a handgun increases the level of the crime.

I am not alone in the opinion that LEOs should have no power whatsoever over anyone who has committed no crime. If I am being "detained" solely on the basis of a cell phone and charger in my pocket, I'm not going to be happy about it, any more than anyone else would.

Everyone is law enforcement pays taxes, the same taxes as everyone else. Are they not granted the right to safety also?

Certainly. But not to the exclusion of mine. The problem is the assumption of truthfulness on the part of the officer in a courtroom. If s/he claims, with no evidence other than his/her word that I did something, it's presumed truthful unless I have incontrovertible evidence that it is not. I'm sure you know just how tempting it can be to use a power like that and likewise, I'm sure you know of officers who have abused that power.

Yes you have overrode the 4th amendment. However, if you consent to a search, you may remove the consent at anytime.

Thank you. That was not something of which I was aware. Question: If I do remove that consent, is that taken as PC for a warrant, or is it merely the lawful exercise of a right, not subject to override? (that is, if I choose for ten years to never deliver a speech in public and all of a sudden, one day, I decide I'm going to become very politically active, should my freedom of speech, previously unused, be questioned?)

If no probable cause or reasonable suspicion exist for the search, then yes if would be a violation of the 4th and 5th amendment.

How hard is it to find PC or RS after you know what is found? (or, "Hmm. I know he had a gun on him... <shrug> I'll just say I saw him fiddling with his pants on that side, as if hitching up a beltline to keep a pistol from sagging down.")

Sorry if I missed anything.

I don't think you missed anything, but I think that you might understate the infringements, possibly because they do not affect you (presumably as an officer. (I made a post a while back about a LEO telling me to make sure I was packing, since I saw him at the rental car agency I went to prior to a trip to Chicago for work. I told him that HE could carry under LEOSA, but I could not. He was completely unaware of the fact that citizens cannot carry in Chicago without risking a felony charge. I was amazed that anyone, let alone a cop, could not know that Chicago exceeds their authority like that.)

Thanks for the reply!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ntrngr]

I work in the basement of a High School. After Columbine most school systems started posting an LEO at all High and Middle Schools during times when the students are there. I am good friends with the ones where I work. It does pay to have good friends.

I've asked this very thing. Both said they prefer to be informed right up front and they would be a bit upset if they happen to see something and weren't told about it first. One is a Sheriff's deputy the other is a City officer.

So, my policy will be to inform immediately unless I have an overwhelming sense of some reason not too.

Of course the "POLITICIANS PREFER UNARMED SUBJECTS" on the bumper might give the guy a clue right off.

 

[Michiana]

I got stopped yesterday with my gun

Talk about timing; Sunday morning I was on my way up 31 to So Bend and got pulled over below Kokomo by an Indiana State Trooper for a traffic stop. I had my Ruger LCP in my pocket and thought for a few seconds while he was walking to my car should I say something or keep quiet unless he asks. I decided not to volunteer any information and he asked for my license and registration and went back to his car and came back a couple minutes later and handed them back to me and said “have a nice holiday weekend.” I put the car in gear and drove off. Not sure if it would have been that easy and quick had I told him I was carrying a loaded gun in my pocket. I wonder if they find out you have a permit when they do the license check on you? Also I wonder if it is noted in my records that I am a FFL as I have a permit to sell handguns issued by the Indiana State Police. Anyone have answers to my questions?

Thanks

 

[SgtChromeDome]

True, Indiana does not legally require citizens to inform a police officer if you're carrying a weapon during it traffic stop. Nor does Indiana require breathing, sleeping, eating, or proper manners, but most people see these things as necessary without being told. It would seem that common courtesy, much like common sense is not all that common after all; really, what does it hurt to inform the officer that you're carrying? The very fact that you have a CCH or LTCH is often proof enough that you are not a threat to the officer's safety, so why all the paranoia? I've been stopped off-duty and away from home, and always volunteered the fact that I was armed. Sure, one of the incidents was a little humorous, since the officer in question was obviously scared out of his wits at the prospect of an armed driver, but I still regard it as common courtesy to inform the officer, especially if it's a two-man unit. (If two cars make the stop for some reason, the officer approaching from the second car may not be visible immediately) If you're right-handed and carrying strong side, reaching for your wallet will most likely expose your weapon to an officer making a right-side approach, and you're going to make some people pretty uncomfortable in a hurry. My suggestion is that you keep your license and permit together, and hand them to the officer when he/she asks. It's no big deal to say, "Officer, I have a gun permit and a weapon in the vehicle. How would you like to proceed?" I can tell you up front, we'll be grateful for your honesty and good manners. I can't guarantee you'll just get a warning, but we'll view you you in a much better light and that can't hurt. As a rule (of course there are exceptions), we're all gun enthusiasts too, conservative politically, and have a deep respect for the Second Amendment. We will almost always ask where the weapon is, and will probably want to take possession of the weapon during the course of the traffic stop, because you just never know what's going through a driver's mind; did he just leave his house after a heated physical fight with his wife? Is he worried about going to jail for some reason that you don't know about? Some folks are making a big deal out of common courtesy, and it really doesn't have to be such a major issue. After all, how often does a police officer come up to a car and shoot the driver without provocation? Almost without exception, it is the other way around, and we're just trying to get home again at the end of the tour. Is it really too much to ask?

 

[Boilers]

Talk about timing; Sunday morning I was on my way up 31 to So Bend and got pulled over below Kokomo by an Indiana State Trooper for a traffic stop.

What were you doing that caused him to pull you over?

 

[Michiana]

I really don't know why he pulled all of us over.

What were you doing that caused him to pull you over?

I was at the back end of a stream of seven or eight cars at 9:30 Sunday morning headed north on 31 and the trooper flagged the last three of us over which sort of pissed me off. When he came to my car he asked how fast I was driving and I guessed around 62-64; it was a 60mph zone. I had not passed a car in the previous fifteen miles since getting on 31 but was passed by quite a few so I know I was not speeding.

He let everyone go from what I saw. My wife was with me and could not understand why we were pulled over either. I was not going to get in a debate with the trooper as he only said drive safely and have a good holiday weekend. I always stay with the traffic and had two tickets in 49 years of driving, and one was in a speed trap where the speed limit went from 45 to 30 when you crossed a road in Elkhart and before you could slow down they get you for going 40 in a 30. I had that reduced.

As for letting the trooper know I had a gun, if I was a single stop I probably would have but seeing I was one of three cars and the first one he questioned I did not want to make a scene. I guessed it would be a quick one and it was. It has nothing to do with respecting the officer. I did not want to go through the hastle of being disarmed, etc. when it was not necessary. I was following the law.

 

[Boilers]

That is odd that he would do that. Did you ask what you were stopped for? Did he offer? Did you get his name? (I always look for the name or ask)

As for the gun, I agree with your actions.

 

[Biggdogg]

I was at the back end of a stream of seven or eight cars at 9:30 Sunday morning headed north on 31 and the trooper flagged the last three of us over which sort of pissed me off. When he came to my car he asked how fast I was driving and I guessed around 62-64; it was a 60mph zone. I had not passed a car in the previous fifteen miles since getting on 31 but was passed by quite a few so I know I was not speeding.

Really?? Are you serious?? You've just admitted that you were in violation of the posted speed limit. Regardless of if was "just a guess" or not; if that's what you told the officer, then you just admitted you were speeding.

 

[chasekerion4]

Really?? Are you serious?? You've just admitted that you were in violation of the posted speed limit. Regardless of if was "just a guess" or not; if that's what you told the officer, then you just admitted you were speeding.

I think he meant realistically, not literally. People rarely get pulled over for even 4 over in a 60mph zone. When *I* say speeding, I mean 10 or more over... 62-64 in a 60 is almost comical that you would even GET pulled over.

I'd be willing to bet that nearly, if not all, traffic officers on this site would say that they wouldn't even think about pulling someone over for 4 over if there wasn't something more to it.

 

[Michiana]

Didn't ask

That is odd that he would do that. Did you ask what you were stopped for? Did he offer? Did you get his name? (I always look for the name or askT

As for the gun, I agree with your actions.

I was upset that I was on the back end of a stream of cars and get pulled over while two thirds of them are not stopped. As long as he did not issue a ticket I figured keep my mouth shut and get on my way sooner than later. As the Ft Wayne LEO mentioned what he does, I did not want to have this trooper disarm me and make a deal out of something that was an non issue at the time. I have a right to carry and did not want to go through a hastle and be "disarmed" by some police officer.

I would like to see LEO's drive reasonably within the speed limit like the rest of us have to and not be cruising down the highway fifteen to twenty miles over the speed limit to end up sitting in the medium two minutes later. If you want to find fault with what people do there is a lot of material on both sides to pick at.

 

[Boilers]

I am not finding fault. I am thankful that you are here to share your experience.
Oh, just FYI, I clocked a carfull of cops at about 137 mph one night. I even called it in to the ISP who did not care. This was at the same time of the incident on the west side of Indy when a ISP pulled over a local (speedway?) cop and got into an altercation. So, they SHOULD have cared.

 

[Michiana]

Get real

Really?? Are you serious?? You've just admitted that you were in violation of the posted speed limit. Regardless of if was "just a guess" or not; if that's what you told the officer, then you just admitted you were speeding.

If you go sixty on 31 between Carmel and Kokomo and north of Kokomo up toward So Bend you will get back ended. Nobody gets stopped for going a few miles over the speed limit. Usually five over is nothing. . When you are traveling with a stream of cars you do not look at your speed every second; if you are out on your own with no car within a half mile either front or back you need to watch your speed more carefully. To me staying less than five over is normal for most drivers and you are not bothered.


Do you roll through stop signs all the time which I never do? Do you use directional signals at all times which I always do? We are talking about if you disclose you are carrying if you get stopped, not driving habits.

 

[Biggdogg]

I think he meant realistically, not literally. People rarely get pulled over for even 4 over in a 60mph zone. When *I* say speeding, I mean 10 or more over... 62-64 in a 60 is almost comical that you would even GET pulled over.

I'd be willing to bet that nearly, if not all, traffic officers on this site would say that they wouldn't even think about pulling someone over for 4 over if there wasn't something more to it.

That I can understand...but after hearing the EXACT SAME thing from peopple who are in court to fight speeding tickets, and then hearing the judge tell them: "So what you're saying is that you WERE speeding, so the SPEEDING ticket is VALID, but just not going as fast as what you got ticketed for?", I guess it still just bugs me. No worries though...

 

[Boilers]

If you go sixty on 31 between Carmel and Kokomo and north of Kokomo up toward So Bend you will get back ended. Nobody gets stopped for going a few miles over the speed limit. Usually five over is nothing. . When you are traveling with a stream of cars you do not look at your speed every second; if you are out on your own with no car within a half mile either front or back you need to watch your speed more carefully. To me staying less than five over is normal for most drivers and you are not bothered.


Do you roll through stop signs all the time which I never do? Do you use directional signals at all times which I always do? We are talking about if you disclose you are carrying if you get stopped, not driving habits.

Okay, I WILL disagree with you here. Last year I decided to stop speeding.
I drive at the limit or 10% below or so. Even though I could spit-shine the front bumper of some semis with their follow distance, I have not been rear-ended.

Again, I now drive 60 ish regularly in a 70 mph zone. I drive 35 in 40 a lot. My car's cruise will go down to 24, so I find it hard to do the 15 & 20 mph zones, though.

But most people accept my speed, and pass me.

As for signals, I have always used them. And yet I STILL got a ticket for not using one in Lafayette. The Big LIAR!!!!! (I got him back though real good)

 

[Biggdogg]

If you go sixty on 31 between Carmel and Kokomo and north of Kokomo up toward So Bend you will get back ended. Nobody gets stopped for going a few miles over the speed limit. Usually five over is nothing. . When you are traveling with a stream of cars you do not look at your speed every second; if you are out on your own with no car within a half mile either front or back you need to watch your speed more carefully. To me staying less than five over is normal for most drivers and you are not bothered.


Do you roll through stop signs all the time which I never do? Do you use directional signals at all times which I always do? We are talking about if you disclose you are carrying if you get stopped, not driving habits.

I do understand that...but read my last post. It's just being aware of WHAT you say.
And in fact, I do tend to be more aware of driving properly because even when I was a LEO, it bugged me to no end (and still does) that some LEO's thought they could do no wrong while in their squad cars.

And as far as disclosing, yeah, I always will if I am ever pulled over.

 

[Michiana]

That I can understand...but after hearing the EXACT SAME thing from peopple who are in court to fight speeding tickets, and then hearing the judge tell them: "So what you're saying is that you WERE speeding, so the SPEEDING ticket is VALID, but just not going as fast as what you got ticketed for?", I guess it still just bugs me. No worries though...

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t police officers have to follow the laws just like everyone else? They can go over the speed limit in response to an emergency or to catch up with a car but otherwise shouldn’t they be going the posted speed limit too? If they did that there would be very little speeding as they would act as a blockade and keep drivers within the speed limit as only an idiot would pass them. They don’t do that because everyone knows the drivers in general go a little over the speed limit. It is reckless drivers that cause accidents, not drivers going 64 in a 60mph zone.

 

[Biggdogg]

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t police officers have to follow the laws just like everyone else? They can go over the speed limit in response to an emergency or to catch up with a car but otherwise shouldn’t they be going the posted speed limit too? If they did that there would be very little speeding as they would act as a blockade and keep drivers within the speed limit as only an idiot would pass them. They don’t do that because everyone knows the drivers in general go a little over the speed limit. It is reckless drivers that cause accidents, not drivers going 64 in a 60mph zone.

There again...see my previous post...

That being said, it doesn't matter how fast, or a driver is going...an accident can happen at ANY speed.

 

[Michiana]

speed is only one thing.

ht

I had a car run into at midnight when it was parked next to my building while I was asleep so what are you trying to say? If speed was the only issue most of the Indy 500 drivers would have been killed last weekend; it's how you drive, not that you are five MPH over a posted speed limit. My car was going zero MPH.

 

[Biggdogg]

ht

I had a car run into at midnight when it was parked next to my building while I was asleep so what are you trying to say? If speed was the only issue most of the Indy 500 drivers would have been killed last weekend; it's how you drive, not that you are five MPH over a posted speed limit. My car was going zero MPH.

Exactly, and that's what I said IN MY EARLIER POSTs...do you not READ? It DOES NOT MATTER how fast, or slow, a vehicle is going...that vehicle can STILL cause an accident. Speed CAN be a contributing factor, but is not always the reason, as you are trying to imply.
Still need further proof?? Go stand out on the roadway of your choice this next winter and see how many vehicles end up in LOW SPEED accidents.

Please start paying attention...welcome to the conversation, we started without you.