Getting Pulled over w/ Gun in car

[Boilers]

This isn't going to be a popular statement, but a badge doesn't automatically mean the person wearing it is a good guy, or even really a police officer.

The Indy head of SWAT (Dale True) pulled up next to my car on I-465 and told me to pull over, holding his badge up. I told him "Anyone can buy a badge". He yelled, holding up his portable radio "I can get a marked car here to do it for me" I told him go ahead. Two marked cars came down the 465-to-69 ramp the wrong way, and another two got onto 465 from 37/Binford, did a U-turn to head the wrong way also, and pulled me over.

I have to hand it to him, that beat my previous number of cars to pull me over by ONE!

Cited for improper/unsafe lane change. No one showed up for the court date. End of story.

MY moral of the story, is don't sweat it.

I did not know he was SWAT commander or whatever the title is until the next week. There was the news story of the renegade semi truck. Perhaps you remember. A female cop was ordered to deploy stop sticks on the SW portion of I-465, and refused to endanger citizens. Somehow they got the truck stopped. And they interviewed the SWAT commander. It was the same guy. He was driving a late model Bonneville at the time I was introduced to him.

 

[Roadie]

OK, perhaps I missed this, and if it was posted, please forgive me, but...

If I can refuse to consent to being searched, why can't I refuse to hand over my weapon? The LEO is taking something off of my person, correct?

What would happen if I said "I believe it would be safer for both of us if I just left my gun where it is" ?

 

[Roadie]

There are other types of profiling besides racial.

Yeah, try being a long hair in a beater car in Carmel....oy

Oh yeah, never jokingly say that you have a body in the back of the car as a smart aleck remark when asked "What's under the blanket?"

 

[ATM]

When did I resort to name calling.

Not trying to be a "Dick"...

I am fairly certain that Bill of Rights was mentioning an aside to Michiana's earlier post about LE speeding. (His name is Dick.)

Bill does not resort to name calling.

 

[rhino]

OK, perhaps I missed this, and if it was posted, please forgive me, but...

If I can refuse to consent to being searched, why can't I refuse to hand over my weapon? The LEO is taking something off of my person, correct?

What would happen if I said "I believe it would be safer for both of us if I just left my gun where it is" ?

You're treading on the "how things really are" vs. "how things should be" dichotomy.

As I've said many times before, the police should have no authority over anyone who has not broken the law. A traffic infraction should not rise to the level of allowing searches or disarming someone who does not otherwise demonstrate evidence of being a threat.

 

[pftraining_in]

OK, perhaps I missed this, and if it was posted, please forgive me, but...

If I can refuse to consent to being searched, why can't I refuse to hand over my weapon? The LEO is taking something off of my person, correct?

What would happen if I said "I believe it would be safer for both of us if I just left my gun where it is" ?

If the officer has requested your gun, that is a lawful order. You could face charges. My guess is the stop would change from a casual encounter to a you being removed from your vehicle at gun point.

If the officer has ask for consent to search, he is asking your permission.

 

[pftraining_in]

I am fairly certain that Bill of Rights was mentioning an aside to Michiana's earlier post about LE speeding. (His name is Dick.)

Bill does not resort to name calling.

On the side of keeping it civil and from a possible misunderstanding, it is only the internet, I have edited my post.

 

[Roadie]

If the officer has requested your gun, that is a lawful order. You could face charges. My guess is the stop would change from a casual encounter to a you being removed from your vehicle at gun point.

If the officer has ask for consent to search, he is asking your permission.

So an officer has to ask my permission for a search, barring Probable Cause, but they can have no cause or reason to request my firearm?

I am not trying to be obtuse here, I am just trying to understand this better.

 

[Bill of Rights]

On the side of keeping it civil and from a possible misunderstanding, it is only the internet, I have edited my post.

Oh CRAP! Yes, absolutely I was addressing Michiana's post, asking about LEOs speeding. I have met him FtF and did address him by his name. I'm very sorry I didn't quote his post in to make that clear, and in no way did I intend to insult you by a misreference. I don't have time at the moment to address the rest of your post back, but will do so ASAP.

Again, please accept my apologies for the confusion and perceived insult. My original post has been edited as well.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

In the situation described, the handguns were bought from an FFL (Gun Store).

EMS is covered by state statue against battery. EMTs are allowed to stop a person from causing bodily harm to them or themselves. I see it often. We are frequently sent on EMS runs to assist with combative patients. Ask if you need help.

Yes, we are covered by state statute against battery. For that matter, so is everyone else. It is a violation of law to batter anyone, and as is so often quoted, when seconds count, police are only minutes away. I've been on lots of runs with combative patients, and until LEOs get there, it's one on one, maybe two on one IF we aren't enroute already. I am not permitted to be armed on duty, nor am I permitted to restrain a patient except when they become violent, and even then, I am required to continue providing care. I don't have an issue with either one of these requirements, but there are times I think I should have restraints in place preventatively. My standing orders don't cover that possibility, and with good reason. Prior restraint, literally.

I know officers who have received citations for speeding and other traffic violations. While I was a jailer I booked in officers, corrections officers, EMTs, attorneys, preachers, teachers and everyday Joes. So I would have a hard time saying anyone is exempt. The officer makes his own decision on who he writes tickets to. Their is no state law requiring who you write a citation to.

You've booked in other officers, etc., yes, and I've seen and heard of officers getting taken in by members of their own departments. OWIs are one reason, especially when there is damage to a city vehicle because of it. There's a reason, though, that the FOP member emblem is a different shape for "full members" (LEOs POVs) and for "associate members" (others who contribute, possibly in the hope that they'll get a "pass" if it's seen) The opposite question is begging to be asked here, so I will: While you've seen other LEOs booked in, how many were for traffic stops? How many have you looked the other way or just decided to warn when they showed their badge on your approach? How many of them have you taken the firearm from "for _____'s safety", run the serial, and returned it to them field-stripped and ammo removed from the mag, with directions to not reload until you are gone?

LE is not exempt from jury duty for the last three years. I have been called for jury duty myself.

As have I, but my reference was to jury nullification; the practice of nullifying the law by refusing to allow it to apply to someone, given certain circumstances. Example: I attend my 6th grade daughter's school softball game at the school with my pistol on my ankle. During the game, the former coach, angry at his dismissal, arrives and becomes an "active shooter". I draw and stop the threat. I go to court and the jury refuses to convict me for carrying on a school campus because at least one member knows that that refusal will prevent me from being tried again, but mostly because at least one person thinks that I did the right thing in spite of the moronic law.

In the example I used above, an officer refusing to cite another officer for some traffic infraction for which anyone else would be cited and fined is in effect, nullifying the laws on speeding (or whatever) for other LEOs.

I was a dispatcher for 6 years, a lot thing sound different over the radio.

What was the situation for the call on the radio? A can of paint in an area where it did not belong, a can with irregular markings or contents, a horse where it did not belong?

I have no other information other than what I heard. He was out of his car, investigating some "suspicious paint". I know things can be misstated or just sound weird over the radio, but if paint can be suspicious, so can anything else.

Nothing is stopping you from having one. You are with in your rights to have one, and by the way, yes I do know people and have stopped people that have them.

Yes, I can legally have one. Why not? I already partially paid for the ones in all the LEO cars that have them.

Case law is present stating that the refusal is not RS or PC by itself.

Thank you. That's the answer I was hoping existed.

LE can not carry in the White House and several locations in DC. Several states do not allow LE to carry in their court houses, bars, or churches. HR216 does not supersede state laws in regards to buildings in other states. HR216 has only been in effect for two to three years. Our right to carry was no different than yours until then. In IN I still have to pay the same amount for a LTCH as anyone else. And yes I have one, 4 year LTCH, matter of fact. IN is extremely easy on permit holders. Look into other states and see the restrictions, they have way more than IN. Is one more location in the state, schools, compared to a LTCH really a reason to be bent out of shape towards LE being able to carry a firearm while off duty?

It's not the "one more location", nor is it the White House or any other single place, nor is it even solely firearms carry. It's the fact that as the law is currently written and enforced (far more so the latter), LEOs are treated as a caste above the rest of us, and politicians a caste above LEOs. Titles of nobility are forbidden Constitutionally, so while we have no Lords, Knights, or Princes, no Shogun and Samurai, we do have a situation in practice that "some are more equal than others", and it is THAT which has me "bent out of shape", if anything. I believe those LEOs and even politicians who earn respect are due it, no more or less so than anyone else. I also think that those who earn disrespect should receive it, regardless of position or years of (dis)service.

Hope that clarifies, and BTW, thank you for the repback. I enjoy a good debate as well.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[sshelton]

Thank you so much, I havnt got my ltch yet, but this helps me so much! even though I don't have to, I will tell them as soon as they walk up.

 

[finity]

Necropost!

 

[Flyguy]

I like kittens... just don't care much for cats. I am new here and this probably isn't a "quality post" but I'm not concerned.

 

[finity]

...I'm not concerned.

You should be.

Oh, you should be...

 

[bigjross2002]

As a LEO I would say that the best thing to do is keep your hands on your steering wheel and listen to the officers initial directions and any questions he may have for why your are being stopped etc. I would say that when its your turn to speak to the officer prior to any movements towards anything you should advise that you have a license to carry a pistol and that you are or arnt presently armed. I would then follow any further directions given by the officer.

Sometimes the officer my ask you to step out of the vehicle and temporarily take the gun from your person until the stop is concluded. Often times the officer will not choose this depending on the situation and circumstances of the stop. I often feel much at ease when I am told this right off the bat as I feel that I am dealing with a law abiding citizen concerned for my safety. I certainly would not feel this way if I discovered the gun on a person and was not told about it (even if the subject was legal to carry)

To add to the whole carrying in the open or in a visible place. It is not illegal but I would advise against it. First of all if left in the car in this manner it could be stolen and second of all it might add to the tension of the stop which would really be needed and potentially dangerous to all involved.

 

[ATM]

...Sometimes the officer my ask you to step out of the vehicle and temporarily take the gun from your person until the stop is concluded.

This is the primary reason many choose not to inform.
If you could help convince other officers to stop disarming folks when they do inform, it might make a difference.

...First of all if left in the car in this manner it could be stolen and second of all it might add to the tension of the stop which would really be needed and potentially dangerous to all involved.

The first one is kinda silly. Why a person would leave their gun visibly unattended has no bearing on their actual carry/transport method.

The second one need not be dangerous, but it's not like I'd be the one to overreact and draw. If tension did turn to danger - it would not be because of anything I did and it would most certainly not be dangerous for all involved. I'd still be no threat to the officer.

 

[chraland51]

With what has been going on lately with traffic stops, I would probably do what a specially trained federal employee told me to do a few years ago. As the officer would approach my vehicle, I would have my window down and my hands on the top of the steering wheel. I would immediately inform him/her that I have a permit to carry and a loaded firearm in the glove box. I would proceed to do as I was told after that. I do not know if the officer is routinely informed that the owner of the vehicle has a license to carry when they run your plates before they get out of their vehicle. I do not have anything to hide and would not want to put the officer on the defensive any more than he probably already is by keeping such information from him until he might ask. Just my two cents.

 

[Roadie]

As a LEO I would say that the best thing to do is keep your hands on your steering wheel and listen to the officers initial directions and any questions he may have for why your are being stopped etc. I would say that when its your turn to speak to the officer prior to any movements towards anything you should advise that you have a license to carry a pistol and that you are or arnt presently armed. I would then follow any further directions given by the officer.

Sometimes the officer my ask you to step out of the vehicle and temporarily take the gun from your person until the stop is concluded. Often times the officer will not choose this depending on the situation and circumstances of the stop. I often feel much at ease when I am told this right off the bat as I feel that I am dealing with a law abiding citizen concerned for my safety. I certainly would not feel this way if I discovered the gun on a person and was not told about it (even if the subject was legal to carry)

To add to the whole carrying in the open or in a visible place. It is not illegal but I would advise against it. First of all if left in the car in this manner it could be stolen and second of all it might add to the tension of the stop which would really be needed and potentially dangerous to all involved.

"Just for my safety" ? That old chestnut. What about MY safety? I dont know you, or any other LEO, I dont know your qualifications, so can I hold YOUR weapon during a traffic stop?

Once you have checked the LTCH, why would you confiscate a legally carried weapon?? Licensed gun owners are statistically, verifiably, among the most law abiding citizens of this country. (yet some of you continue to profile us as a risk, where no risk exists.
approx ONLY 0.26% of ALL criminals convicted in TX for 2007 were Licensed to carry, for example)
Once the LTCH is checked, and you have no PC or RS beyond the traffic stop, your interaction regarding the gun should END.

Exactly! That is what makes this whole "disarmed for officer safety" thing such a farce! I would like to see proof of just ONE incident in this country where a licensed gun owner informed the LEO he was carrying, showed his License to Carry, THEN shot the LEO. Just one... anyone?

Forgive the cut n paste, but since I said it before, why not reuse it?

 

[kludge]

Due to several comments on this board from LEO's, I have changed my mode of carry while in the car.

Gun is now off body.
Papers are now on the visor.
I will not inform.
I will not consent to a search of my vehicle.

If I am removed from the car so be it. I won't have anyone removing my gun from my holster while it is pointed at my femoral artery. I'm just protecting all the LEO's out there from a wrongful death lawsuit.

I haven't been pulled over since... can't remember...

 

[gunrunner0]

THe one time i've been pulled over with a gun in the car; I calmly told the office their was a pistol in the glove box AFTER he asked for my registration (also in the glove box). He simply asked for my LTCH and for me to slowly remove my registration from the glove box. I wouldn't/didn't volunteer that I had a gun until I had too, at the time was CC'ing as well and never said a word. My best story however was coming home from Purdue last year in Feb. a woman pulled out in fron of me and I hit her totaling my car, my roomate was also going home that weekend so I took all my guns with me. So when the cop asked me if I needed anything from my car before they towed it I had to tell him I had 4 handguns and 2 long guns that I needed to get. Luckily he too was very calm and simply asked for my LTCH and helped me collect my firearms.