Future of Defensive Pistol Sights

[horsehaulin]

One of the big things is a reddot doesnt give away your position. If your in a defense situation, and aiming with a laser your making a nice bullseye for the bad guy

That's a point I had not thought of. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Rookie]

Also, a laser doesn't work so well in bright sunlight. RDS isn't affected.

 

[95wrangler]

I see the point. I wouldnt have thought about the laser giving you away. At night a flashlight would also give you away and wouldnt you need a flashlight also to verify your target with either sighting system? During the day, I would assume iron sights are slower but more reliable than holo sights. I guess Ill spend my money on training instead of another sighting system unless they get smaller and more reliable, I mean they do use batteries and electronics fail.

 

[42769vette]

I see the point. I wouldnt have thought about the laser giving you away. At night a flashlight would also give you away and wouldnt you need a flashlight also to verify your target with either sighting system? During the day, I would assume iron sights are slower but more reliable than holo sights. I guess Ill spend my money on training instead of another sighting system unless they get smaller and more reliable, I mean they do use batteries and electronics fail.

Anything can fail including ammo, or a gun. The trijicon does not use batteries. Everything else that im aware of does use batteries. For instance the Vortex razor has over 1 year of battery life, so its not like the battery dies very often. I would think replacing a 5 dollar battery would not be a deal breaker if your looking at the overall expense of the items.

 

[aaron580]

Ive been considering one of these on my G19 but I just cant bring myself to commit just yet.

 

[esrice]

My question may be assenine but how is a red dot superior to a laser?

Great question. Once you get a chance to shoot with a red dot I think you could answer it yourself. While a laser and red dot are similar in how the shooter perceives them, they work VERY differently. The main advantage to the red dot is that the dot is housed inside the optic, and not out on the target. Laser in bright sunlight? You won't see the laser. Person wearing bright clothing? You won't see the laser. This isn't an issue with a RDS.

At night a flashlight would also give you away and wouldnt you need a flashlight also to verify your target with either sighting system?

Flashlights are for target ID, and lasers are a secondary sighting system-- totally different things intended for two different purposes. Whether either makes you a "bullet magnet" is debatable. One certainly is not a substitute for the other.

 

[cedartop]

Anything can fail including ammo, or a gun. The trijicon does not use batteries. Everything else that im aware of does use batteries. For instance the Vortex razor has over 1 year of battery life, so its not like the battery dies very often. I would think replacing a 5 dollar battery would not be a deal breaker if your looking at the overall expense of the items.

Alan, Trijicon does make a model that doesn't use batteries, but most of us prefer the models that use batteries. Just change them out once a year and you're good.

 

[42769vette]

Alan, Trijicon does make a model that doesn't use batteries, but most of us prefer the models that use batteries. Just change them out once a year and you're good.

I didnt know that, I was underthe assumption that most pistol rds users were using the non battery model. Now you see why I havent commented much in this thread.

Does the battery model most folks use havea auto shutoff? One thing Ive been petitioning Vortex about is either droping the auto shutoff, or making a conversion, or diffrent model

 

[Rookie]

Trijicon does not have auto shut off. If vortex wants to play in this market, I think it's mandatory to get rid of auto shut off.

 

[lovemachine]

Alan, Trijicon does make a model that doesn't use batteries, but most of us prefer the models that use batteries. Just change them out once a year and you're good.

Why would you choose a model with batteries instead of without?

 

[shooter521]

Why would you choose a model with batteries instead of without?

Because you can get a smaller dot size and typically a brighter dot, so you don't have the washout issues in the battery-only version like you can with the dual-illuminated version.

 

[95wrangler]

Great question. Once you get a chance to shoot with a red dot I think you could answer it yourself. While a laser and red dot are similar in how the shooter perceives them, they work VERY differently. The main advantage to the red dot is that the dot is housed inside the optic, and not out on the target. Laser in bright sunlight? You won't see the laser. Person wearing bright clothing? You won't see the laser. This isn't an issue with a RDS.



Flashlights are for target ID, and lasers are a secondary sighting system-- totally different things intended for two different purposes. Whether either makes you a "bullet magnet" is debatable. One certainly is not a substitute for the other.

Ok I think Im catching on to the dot on target vs the dot in the sight but Im still not sold on size. Maybe Id have to see one in person. Does the holo on top of the slide affect recoil with the added weight on the rear?

Yes I realize flashlights and lasers are different, I was just comparing apples to oranges. Both are attractants of lead but different flavors.

 

[42769vette]

Trijicon does not have auto shut off. If vortex wants to play in this market, I think it's mandatory to get rid of auto shut off.

I couldnt agree more, thats some of the reason I havent really messed with it. I see not point in learning a product I wouldnt recomend. For the rifle side its diffrent, but Ive had quite a few customers ask about the razor on a pistol and Ive pointed them all to the Trijicon.

 

[42769vette]

Ok I think Im catching on to the dot on target vs the dot in the sight but Im still not sold on size. Maybe Id have to see one in person. Does the holo on top of the slide affect recoil with the added weight on the rear?

Yes I realize flashlights and lasers are different, I was just comparing apples to oranges. Both are attractants of lead but different flavors.

Im not sure on the Trijicon, but the razor comes in at 1.4oz. It does not affect function, or recoil.

 

[shooter521]

I was placing a Lone Wolf order at the shop today and *almost* added on a custom-milled G17 slide for myself, until I saw that you had to specify what sight you wanted to use, and I'm not *quite* there yet...

 

[Rookie]

Ok I think Im catching on to the dot on target vs the dot in the sight but Im still not sold on size. Maybe Id have to see one in person. Does the holo on top of the slide affect recoil with the added weight on the rear?

Yes I realize flashlights and lasers are different, I was just comparing apples to oranges. Both are attractants of lead but different flavors.

The only downside right now is the selection of holsters. Weight isn't an issue, recoil isn't affected, it's actually easier to rack the slide with a red dot sight. As RDS gain popularity, the holster selection will open up.

 

[Rookie]

I was placing a Lone Wolf order at the shop today and *almost* added on a custom-milled G17 slide for myself, until I saw that you had to specify what sight you wanted to use, and I'm not *quite* there yet...

I think, key word is think, that they are all close enough....

 

[cedartop]

The only downside right now is the selection of holsters. Weight isn't an issue, recoil isn't affected, it's actually easier to rack the slide with a red dot sight. As RDS gain popularity, the holster selection will open up.

That is not a problem for me.

 

[cedartop]

Because you can get a smaller dot size and typically a brighter dot, so you don't have the washout issues in the battery-only version like you can with the dual-illuminated version.

Correct. The battery model just works better under a wider range of conditions. We have some people in Africa who don't have reasonable access to batteries and have chosen the dual illuminated model, good for a situation like that.

 

[esrice]

Ok I think Im catching on to the dot on target vs the dot in the sight but Im still not sold on size. Maybe Id have to see one in person. Does the holo on top of the slide affect recoil with the added weight on the rear?

In my experience, I found the RMR's size to be deceiving. It looks much larger in zoomed in pictures but is actually quite small in person.

I had no issues with the added weight on Rookie's M&P. Carrying it was no different, and shooting it was no different.