Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man part II

[buckwacker]

Here's the breakdown of why Chauvin was convicted on ALL 3 charges:

What's second-degree unintentional murder?​

It's also called felony murder. To prove this count, prosecutors had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony - in this case, third-degree assault. They didn't have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply unlawful force that caused bodily harm.

What about third-degree murder?​

For this count, jurors had to find Chauvin caused Floyd's death through an action that was "eminently dangerous" and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.

And second-degree manslaughter?​

Prosecutors had to show that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk, and that he consciously took the chance of causing severe injury or death.



All three seem reasonable

No, it would be reasonable to pick the ONE charge you thought most fitting.

 

[Joniki]

I think that rather than the guilty verdict appeasing people, it will only strengthen the animosity towards the police.

^^^ And it makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No, it would be reasonable to pick the ONE charge you thought most fitting.

I'm sorry that you have not kept up with the American Justice System until just this moment. Nevertheless, it doesn't work that way.

 

[foszoe]

I've heard it way more lately than I've heard it 5 years ago. We had the internet and Twitter 5 years ago. The progression of critical race theory sounds a lot like flipping the power structures, not evening them out. And there are a lot more bat **** crazy wokists saying **** like that, yes. That sentiment is on the fringe of woke and creeping towards the center of it.

that is your lived experience.

Amazon product ASIN 0822318458
For some reason amazon links don't appear broken to me....

The book, In the Name of Elijah Muhammad: Louis Farrakhan and The Nation of Islam, is a decent book I read that will show the seeds go all the way back to late 19th and early 20th centuries. The societies that were created almost seemed like Amish in a wierd way.

 

[foszoe]

Do you think SPLC WN estimates would err on the high or low side, considering their woke views and proclivities for propagandizing?

high side.....They would hate me as much as several here!

 

[foszoe]

No, it would be reasonable to pick the ONE charge you thought most fitting.

Most may say that academically, I have. I think that especially in things like traffic citations.....speeding, oh plate is expired, or registration isn't paid, no seatbelt! oh the horror.

If someone kills my wife....I want the book thrown at them.

 

[erasure]

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Here's the breakdown of why Chauvin was convicted on ALL 3 charges:

What's second-degree unintentional murder?​

It's also called felony murder. To prove this count, prosecutors had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony - in this case, third-degree assault. They didn't have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply unlawful force that caused bodily harm.

What about third-degree murder?​

For this count, jurors had to find Chauvin caused Floyd's death through an action that was "eminently dangerous" and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.

And second-degree manslaughter?​

Prosecutors had to show that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk, and that he consciously took the chance of causing severe injury or death.



All three seem reasonable

After reading this, it’s even more bogus that he was convicted on all three.

 

[jamil]

Here's the breakdown of why Chauvin was convicted on ALL 3 charges:

What's second-degree unintentional murder?​

It's also called felony murder. To prove this count, prosecutors had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony - in this case, third-degree assault. They didn't have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply unlawful force that caused bodily harm.

The problem with this charge is that it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt that chauvin caused the death by kneeling on him, and certainly not that Chauvin intended to apply unlawful force. I'm pretty sure he thought it was appropriate for the circumstances. The defense even got the prosecution's use of force expert to say that using a taser would have been justified under the circumstances and that putting him on the ground prone like that was using less force than tasing him.

What about third-degree murder?​

For this count, jurors had to find Chauvin caused Floyd's death through an action that was "eminently dangerous" and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.

Again, this would require that the state prove that the death was caused by Chauvin. At best they proved that it could have been that. The defense presented plausible factors that could have caused the death, especially given Floyd's behavior prior to being restrained in the prone position. Certainly enough to cause reasonable doubt.

And second-degree manslaughter?​

Prosecutors had to show that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk, and that he consciously took the chance of causing severe injury or death.



All three seem reasonable

No, the first two don't. I think they're mutually exclusive with the 2nd degree manslaughter. I think the only culpable negligence that was proven in the death of Floyd was keeping him down after he had passed out. What made me most sure this would have been the correct verdict was that even the defense's medical witness admitted that Floyd could have been saved if help had been rendered sooner, that it was an unnecessary death.

So I think the culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk was Chauvin insisting that they keep Floyd restrained on the ground even after he had become unresponsive. It wasn't proven that he caused Floyd's death directly, but he prevented Floyd from getting care that might have saved his life.

I think if I were on the jury I think I would vote for guilty on 2nd deg manslaughter, but not guilty on the first two. But then we have the "holding me accountable" ******** that Maxine and company wanted. They'd dox me. Try to get me fired from my job. Maybe firebomb my house. Try to harm my family. At least they'd throw pigs blood all over my front door. You know. It's what civil societies do.

 

[buckwacker]

I'll ask again, the woke dream is the Genocide of White people?

For those saying these things, yes, that's what they want. It's more complicated than what the ignorant useful idiots are chanting though. This whole woke, critical race theory b.s. is simply a means by which the hardcore leftists subjugate the majority using the purported grievances of the minority. If you can convince enough of the majority to side with the minority grievance b.s., you might be able to build a political majority which you then use to destroy what has become the new political minority.

 

[churchmouse]

Plenty

Elaborate please.

 

[jamil]

For those saying these things, yes, that's what they want. It's more complicated than what the ignorant useful idiots are chanting though. This whole woke, critical race theory b.s. is simply a means by which the hardcore leftists subjugate the majority using the purported grievances of the minority. If you can convince enough of the majority to side with the minority grievance b.s., you might be able to build a political majority which you then use to destroy what has become the new political minority.

Pretty much all of this.

 

[bobzilla]

If being on INGO has shown people anything about me, other than a vast array of interesting adjectives, it’s that I’m not one to shirk away from stating my opinion, even if unpopular. Never been that guy. Not here, not in real life. I’m just dumb like that.

No, you’re not one to shirk sharing AN opinion. You’ve made it clear to many of us that you will argue **** you don’t believe just to rile people up. That’s trolling but you’re the master at it. So we really DONT know what you’d do or say because you’ve said it all at sone point

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So, who’s hiring? Because I’m out.

No, I’m completely out. I’m not going to put my life and my family’s life and well-being in the balance for a system that will burn me down for doing my job.

I only serve at the will of the people. The people don’t want me anymore.

Too bad, I was going to say the White Co. Sheriff department is taking applications. But for any officer looking for a change of pace, although any who worked any larger urban area would probably be bored off their behind, the link to the app is at the bottom of the page.

Home :: White County Sheriff's Department

wcsheriff-in.us

How could the jury find Chauvin guilty of three different charges ? Admittedly I don’t know the finer points/distinction of each of the guilty verdict offenses, but it would seem the jury would find guilty for ONE OFFENSE not three.

They should have considering the differences between the 3. But they can only sentence him for one. Otherwise it would be double jeopardy.

Would you be one of those intimidated people if you were on that jury? I’m wondering how many people here would vote to “appease the mob?”

I'd like to say I wouldn't. But in all honesty, I don't know.

I believe i heard 6 white, 4 black, 2 identify as multi

I believe that is correct. With 7 women and 5 men.

Ya know for a whole forum full of people who say “judged by 12 rather than carried by 6” y’all sure do think the jury came to the wrong conclusion despite a video in which someone sat on someone’s neck for 10 minutes.

I know BLM doesn’t have many fans here but some bias is showing. I’m no fan of them myself but I sure don’t like the idea of the enforcers of the law being judge jury and executioner.

Well, the prosecutions own witness stated it looks like his knee was actually on his shoulder so... I know of at least 2 instances where people tried it out, same positioning and in both cases the person being held down survived. But in both instances they didn't have the heart disease nor the drug ingestion of Floyd. Personally I wasn't on the jury but from what I know of the case, I could see manslaughter. But that is the max.

 

[jamil]

that is your lived experience.

Amazon product ASIN 0822318458
For some reason amazon links don't appear broken to me....

The book, In the Name of Elijah Muhammad: Louis Farrakhan and The Nation of Islam, is a decent book I read that will show the seeds go all the way back to late 19th and early 20th centuries. The societies that were created almost seemed like Amish in a wierd way.

Since you brought up a buzzword of great import to woke people (this has nothing to do with the book) I think it's worth talking about the problems with "lived experience". It's true enough that lived experience has a great impact on our temperament (personality), beliefs, worldviews, etcetera. But it can only be applied individually, and not group-wide. Woke people assume lived experience applies collectively. It just doesn't. It's true enough that many within a collective group may have common lived experiences, but it can't be assumed that they all do. Not all black people can claim they grew up in poverty. and especially that they exclusively grew up in poverty, for example. And woke people act, talk, and write as if they can claim that.

 

[foszoe]

U.S. to Probe Minneapolis Police Practices After Floyd’s Killing https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-to...ce-practices-after-floyds-killing-11619013633

 

[SwikLS]

there is nothing to save in American cities. get out and let them burn.

 

[foszoe]

The problem with this charge is that it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt that chauvin caused the death by kneeling on him, and certainly not that Chauvin intended to apply unlawful force. I'm pretty sure he thought it was appropriate for the circumstances. The defense even got the prosecution's use of force expert to say that using a taser would have been justified under the circumstances and that putting him on the ground prone like that was using less force than tasing him.


Again, this would require that the state prove that the death was caused by Chauvin. At best they proved that it could have been that. The defense presented plausible factors that could have caused the death, especially given Floyd's behavior prior to being restrained in the prone position. Certainly enough to cause reasonable doubt.


No, the first two don't. I think they're mutually exclusive with the 2nd degree manslaughter. I think the only culpable negligence that was proven in the death of Floyd was keeping him down after he had passed out. What made me most sure this would have been the correct verdict was that even the defense's medical witness admitted that Floyd could have been saved if help had been rendered sooner, that it was an unnecessary death.

So I think the culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk was Chauvin insisting that they keep Floyd restrained on the ground even after he had become unresponsive. It wasn't proven that he caused Floyd's death directly, but he prevented Floyd from getting care that might have saved his life.

I think if I were on the jury I think I would vote for guilty on 2nd deg manslaughter, but not guilty on the first two. But then we have the "holding me accountable" ******** that Maxine and company wanted. They'd dox me. Try to get me fired from my job. Maybe firebomb my house. Try to harm my family. At least they'd throw pigs blood all over my front door. You know. It's what civil societies do.

While death is certainly bodily harm. Bodily harm doesn't mean death.

Same with reckless behavior and conscious indifference.

Huge difference between those and state proving death was caused by Chauvin.

 

[Jaybird1980]

This just shows how ignorant these fools are.

 

[jamil]

While death is certainly bodily harm. Bodily harm doesn't mean death.

Same with reckless behavior and conscious indifference.

Huge difference between those and state proving death was caused by Chauvin.

In the first two the state had to prove the death was caused by Chauvin’s excessive force. They didn’t prove it was excessive and they didn’t prove it was caused by the use of that force. Though I suppose we could argue if staying on him instead of rendering aid was excessive force and that by not helping him he caused his death. But them it sounds a lot more like the manslaughter charge than the other two murder charges.