Focus on the front sight? It seems wrong to me. Here's why:

[roadrunner681]

So essentially his post was saying to first focus on the target, and then focus on the front sites while firing? I'll try that at the range, because I usually do it the other way around.

While that may produce better accuracy, it isn't really practical in defense situations is it? I mean, isn't target identification paramount? Unless you have orders to shoot and kill anything that moves in front of you (as in trench warfare), you really can't just shoot without focusing on the target. And when you focus on the target, you really don't have time to then refocus on your sights, especially not if the other guy is shooting back at you.

PS, I think the reason I naturally shift my focus to the target before pulling the trigger is to identify where my bullet hits go.

what i THINK he saying is find the target, find where you want to hit the target, focus on that spot, then bring the sights up in to focus? the way dad showed me how to shoot was find the pop can, focus on the can bring the sights up in to your view and fire he told me that be good at shooting up close quickly i have to train my brain to align the sights automatically. is that the right way? i not sure but it seems to work for me. as for front sight focus i don't seem to focus on it but i absolutely need it to align the gun i seem to miss the most when i lose the sights

 

[rvb]

So essentially his post was saying to first focus on the target, and then focus on the front sites while firing? I'll try that at the range, because I usually do it the other way around.

While that may produce better accuracy, it isn't really practical in defense situations is it? I mean, isn't target identification paramount? Unless you have orders to shoot and kill anything that moves in front of you (as in trench warfare), you really can't just shoot without focusing on the target. And when you focus on the target, you really don't have time to then refocus on your sights, especially not if the other guy is shooting back at you.

PS, I think the reason I naturally shift my focus to the target before pulling the trigger is to identify where my bullet hits go.

Sorry. I never do a good job conveying what I'm picturing in my mind's eye into written words. This is a conversation best left either on the range or over some cold beers.......

nutshell:

If you are striving for utmost accuracy, find your point of aim (target focus), get the gun up so the sights are in line w/ the target, then shift your focus to the FS, and maintain the sight alignment while you press the trigger straight back. Do not let the shot breaking disturb the sight alignment. This "Type 3" focus (B. Enos) is our default, most common use of the sights.

If the target is close/easy enough that you can still hit accurately enough, then I believe it's ok to leave your focus on the target. This "type 2" (B. Enos) focus still requires you to have the sights aligned and a proper trigger press, but you are looking through the sights, which are somewhat blurry.

Only you can determine what level of difficulty separates a type2 and type 3 focus. It will change as you progress in skill.

As for how long it takes to shift your focus, it's not nearly as long as you think it is. milliseconds. And practice can make it faster. The time lost to the 'shift' is often recovered in the amount of time it takes to align the sights.

experiment!

We're scratching the surface on vision technique here....

-rvb

 

[rvb]

what i THINK he saying is find the target, find where you want to hit the target, focus on that spot, then bring the sights up in to focus? the way dad showed me how to shoot was find the pop can, focus on the can bring the sights up in to your view and fire he told me that be good at shooting up close quickly i have to train my brain to align the sights automatically. is that the right way? i not sure but it seems to work for me. as for front sight focus i don't seem to focus on it but i absolutely need it to align the gun i seem to miss the most when i lose the sights

sounds like you're primarily using a "type 2" focus I described above...

-rvb

 

[rvb]

Me too. I do substitute either a Tony Montana "Say hello to my l'il frien'" or an Animal Mother "get some!" for the primal scream. That's what works best for me.

I prefer to fart in their general direction..... silly english K-nig-its.

-rvb

-rvb

 

[Rob377]

So essentially his post was saying to first focus on the target, and then focus on the front sites while firing? I'll try that at the range, because I usually do it the other way around.

While that may produce better accuracy, it isn't really practical in defense situations is it? I mean, isn't target identification paramount? Unless you have orders to shoot and kill anything that moves in front of you (as in trench warfare), you really can't just shoot without focusing on the target. And when you focus on the target, you really don't have time to then refocus on your sights, especially not if the other guy is shooting back at you.

PS, I think the reason I naturally shift my focus to the target before pulling the trigger is to identify where my bullet hits go.

In a defense scenario, If you haven't identified your target BEFORE pulling your gun and lining the sights up on it, I'd submit you're doing it wrong.

*not legal advice, no attorney client relationship is formed by this post, you are encouraged to seek legal counsel in your jurisdiction*

As for the shooting stuff, RVB again has it covered, and covered well.

I've seen him shoot, and if he's willing to give free shooting advice, you'd be a damn fool not to listen.

 

[netsecurity]

what i THINK he saying is find the target, find where you want to hit the target, focus on that spot, then bring the sights up in to focus? the way dad showed me how to shoot was find the pop can, focus on the can bring the sights up in to your view and fire he told me that be good at shooting up close quickly i have to train my brain to align the sights automatically. is that the right way? i not sure but it seems to work for me. as for front sight focus i don't seem to focus on it but i absolutely need it to align the gun i seem to miss the most when i lose the sights

Yea, that probably is the best. I really don't use iron sights on rifles anymore, since I've got quite a good assortment of scopes now. When I think of iron sights these days, I think of pistols, and close range shooting, and that surely doesn't make as much of a difference as long range rifle shooting. For long range shooting you shoud have time to focus on the sight.

 

[roadrunner681]

sounds like you're primarily using a "type 2" focus I described above...

-rvb

that sound exactly like what i do for close range, or flying targets works well for shotguns that for sure, i like this topic makes me think

 

[netsecurity]

Sorry. I never do a good job conveying what I'm picturing in my mind's eye into written words. This is a conversation best left either on the range or over some cold beers.......

nutshell:

If you are striving for utmost accuracy, find your point of aim (target focus), get the gun up so the sights are in line w/ the target, then shift your focus to the FS, and maintain the sight alignment while you press the trigger straight back. Do not let the shot breaking disturb the sight alignment. This "Type 3" focus (B. Enos) is our default, most common use of the sights.

If the target is close/easy enough that you can still hit accurately enough, then I believe it's ok to leave your focus on the target. This "type 2" (B. Enos) focus still requires you to have the sights aligned and a proper trigger press, but you are looking through the sights, which are somewhat blurry.

Only you can determine what level of difficulty separates a type2 and type 3 focus. It will change as you progress in skill.

As for how long it takes to shift your focus, it's not nearly as long as you think it is. milliseconds. And practice can make it faster. The time lost to the 'shift' is often recovered in the amount of time it takes to align the sights.

experiment!

We're scratching the surface on vision technique here....

-rvb

Yes, that is what I wanted to hear. Thanks!

 

[rvb]

that sound exactly like what i do for close range, or flying targets works well for shotguns that for sure, i like this topic makes me think

Yes! Good analogy. Ironically, a "type 2" focus is what's considered traditional/fundamental for clays/birds. It should not seem so weird for pistol, especially when you factor in moving targets in a defensive situation, etc...

-rvb

 

[roadrunner681]

Yea, that probably is the best. I really don't use iron sights on rifles anymore, since I've got quite a good assortment of scopes now. When I think of iron sights these days, I think of pistols, and close range shooting, and that surely doesn't make as much of a difference as long range rifle shooting. For long range shooting you shoud have time to focus on the sight.

i like to shoot my mosins out to 500 yards with just the irons sights, the type 3 focus works very well here, once you figure out what the wind is up to at least ive try the type 2 style at that distance, i got the shot off quicker but i only got close instead of hitting the drum.

 

[roadrunner681]

Yes! Good analogy. Ironically, a "type 2" focus is what's considered traditional/fundamental for clays. It should not seem so weird for pistol, especially when you factor in moving targets in a defensive situation, etc...

-rvb

agree i tryed to aim my first pistol and only pistol like with the type 3 way and i cant hit the broad side of a barn, shoot like the shotguns hit everything i tried weird how hunting helps you out some times.

 

[Hohn]

Ryan, thanks for your informative postings.

It's nice to know that there isn't exactly consensus on gluing your focus to the front sight and leaving it there.

I don't feel so weird for thinking that a focus on the target is advantageous. I was actually seeing better groups at 25 yards(!) focusing on the target and letting the front sight go a little blurry because I could better pick an exact POA.

I happen to agree with you that trigger control matters most.


Thanks again for the informative postings, everyone.

H

 

[Kagnew]

Does it help if you also bellow one long primal scream while dumping the mag?

I've been known to do that while taking a dump.

 

[rvb]

Ryan, thanks for your informative postings.

It's nice to know that there isn't exactly consensus on gluing your focus to the front sight and leaving it there.

I don't feel so weird for thinking that a focus on the target is advantageous. I was actually seeing better groups at 25 yards(!) focusing on the target and letting the front sight go a little blurry because I could better pick an exact POA.

I happen to agree with you that trigger control matters most.


Thanks again for the informative postings, everyone.

H

You're welcome!

but do realize you were not shifting your focus. You stated you focused on the FS and could not then find an aim point on the target. Please experiment. Try the steps I described in post 42. Don't take the discussion on target focus as confirmation it's the way to get the best groups, it's not!

-rvb

 

[Hohn]

I didn't take it that way at all. Rather, my compromised target focus was, at that point, still doing better than just a front-sight glue.

Trying your technique of shifting from target to sight is something I'm eager to do. I was supposed to go to the range today, but ended up changing an alternator instead.

Then I killed the starter trying to get her running again.


Not exactly the fun range day I had planned.

 

[metaldog]

I just keep pulling the trigger like a wild man until I hit the target.

Oh good idea! Reminds me of a few months back...
Some of the "trouble" RENTAL neighbors down the street from us, had their house shot at. Dunno the reason, don't care the reason. But 3 young punks (all dressed alike (red shirt, black pants) were walking down the street. They stopped in front of the house. One guy pulled a handgun and fired about 5 shots at the house. ONLY ONE SHOT hit the house!!! The people were home & nobody was hurt.
So my question is... Where the F did the other 4 shots go? In the houses behind? In the ground? In the squirrel protecting his nuts in front of the house? JUST STUPID!!!!!

That is the dumbest thing anyone could do with a firearm.

 

[Laughing Snake]

So my question is... Where the F did the other 4 shots go? In the houses behind? In the ground? In the squirrel protecting his nuts in front of the house? JUST STUPID!!!!!

That is the dumbest thing anyone could do with a firearm.

I think one of them ended up in east Indy in the side of my house.

 

[metaldog]

I think one of them ended up in east Indy in the side of my house.[/QUOTE

Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
East Indy is the area..

 

[netsecurity]

Yes! Good analogy. Ironically, a "type 2" focus is what's considered traditional/fundamental for clays/birds. It should not seem so weird for pistol, especially when you factor in moving targets in a defensive situation, etc...

-rvb

When I look at the sights while shooting clay pigeons I miss every time. When focusing on the target and just aiming intuitively I hit it. That's just the way it is. But why? i guess I would extrapolate from that, that when shooting any MOVING target it is best to focus on the target and ot the front sight. Is this correct?

 

[BravoMike]

Yes! Good analogy. Ironically, a "type 2" focus is what's considered traditional/fundamental for clays/birds. It should not seem so weird for pistol, especially when you factor in moving targets in a defensive situation, etc...

-rvb

Hmmm... So I'm a bit confused. In defensive shooting classes you are taught to focus on the front sight. If I understand you correctly you are saying that for a moving target you should focus on the target. Defensive shooting is very dynamic with lots of movement. Does this mean that in a defensive shooting situation where the target is moving you should have target focus?