Focus on the front sight? It seems wrong to me. Here's why:

[Hohn]

I've read many times about focusing on the front sight when firing a handgun.

But I'm starting now to question if this really is the right approach.



Yesterday I did some experimentation with my stock Glock front sight and a 8" shoot-n-c target about 10 yards away. If I focused on the front sight, the target got so blurry I had a REALLY hard time even picking a point of aim.

But if I focused on the target, the front sight was only slightly blurry, and I could much more easily and precisely pick a point of aim.


I noticed the same thing on my most recent trip to the range, which only offers 25 yards distances for pistols. At that distance, focusing on the front sight meant the target was almost impossible to discern. My groups, needless to say, were bad-- only 4/10 even on the 8" target.

But switching to focusing on the target let me get 8/10 on target, as again the front sight was still easily discernible when I focused on the actual target.



What am I missing? The conventional wisdom can be wrong, sure-- but this is more than just conventional wisdom. This is taught at every major shooting school.

For what it's worth, I have 20/20 in that eye (I wear only one contact lens in my non-dominant eye).


Can someone help me understand what I'm not getting about the wisdom of focusing on the front sight? Thanks.

 

[netsecurity]

Same here. I focus on the fromt sight and the target is blurry. I hit better when I focus on the target, but I always focus on the front sight first.

EDIT: I'm talking about pistols ^.

 

[chezuki]

I think it depends on your goal. I am more precise with the target in focus, but I am much faster and get more rounds on target quickly by focusing on the front sight. I always focus on the front sight first, and if its a particularly difficulty shot (no-shoots, hard cover, etc) I'll bring the target into focus before breaking the shot.

 

[Hohn]

Thanks, Chezook. That makes sense to me-- front sight for speed.

I was thinking the admonition was for range use (accuracy), and wasn't getting it.

 

[lovemachine]

I just keep pulling the trigger like a wild man until I hit the target.

 

[dmarsh8]

I agree. I've learned to be careful listening to people who only stand and slow fire/Bulls-eye shoot. I listen and learn and respect my elders but some things just don't work well for me like them. Or I have a diff goal like,getting the entire mag in the kill zone not a 1.5
inch group.

 

[rgrimm01]

Thought:

I can remember the first deer I ever attempted to shoot. I watched a beautiful 8pt buck come up and draw a perfect 20yd broadside target. I remember looking at the deer and noting how chiseled the musculature on this specimen was. I noted how the coloring, in particular the black nose in contrast with the white, was text book. I noticed the tight perfect symmetry of his antlers. In other words, I noticed too much.

I had been shooting a bow since I had been too small to pull one without great difficulty. I had hunted/dispatched squirrels, rabbits etc. for years prior to deer hunting. I should have pulled up, drawn, focused on my arrow alignment (shot instinct, no pins) and let her fly.

The arrow flew just over his shoulder. He reared up like a horse then ran away at a speed that would rival a bolt of lightening. Absolutely beautiful.

Lesson learned (I find my "sights") and not repeated... Deer=1: me=0

 

[VUPDblue]

I just keep pulling the trigger like a wild man until I hit the target.

shocking

 

[MikeDVB]

At the end of the day the sight is close, the target is far - and your sight is most likely going to obscure a good portion of the target. What you're looking for is the relationship between the front and rear sights and that the front sight is over the target.

If you're going for pinpoint accuracy - you probably shouldn't be using iron sights... I'm not saying it's not doable - but it's not what they're designed for.

That said - I have no issues being accurate out to 300 yards with my AR-15 and iron sights and I do focus on the front post - but at the end of the day do what works best for you depending on the situation.

If it's self defense you probably won't be using the sights at all - or at least not with enough time to really decide whether to focus on the sight or the target without substantial training - you will have other things running through your mind.

If you're at the range - do whatever works best for you. Just because I say my way is the best, does not mean it's the best 100% of the time [or that it really is even the best]. Somebody, at some point, decided that focusing on the front sight was best - likely because that is what worked best for them.

 

[Slawburger]

I just keep pulling the trigger like a wild man until I hit the target.

Does it help if you also bellow one long primal scream while dumping the mag?

 

[Rob377]

what's a sight?

 

[Bunnykid68]

what's a sight?

I don't know, I shoot like the cowboys do

 

[lovemachine]

shocking

 

[Rob377]

I don't know, I shoot like the cowboys do

Me too. I do substitute either a Tony Montana "Say hello to my l'il frien'" or an Animal Mother "get some!" for the primal scream. That's what works best for me.

 

[rvb]

what's a sight?

duh. This thing you are reading... a web SIGHT. gheesh.

I've read many times about focusing on the front sight when firing a handgun.
But I'm starting now to question if this really is the right approach.

If I focused on the front sight, the target got so blurry I had a REALLY hard time even picking a point of aim.
But if I focused on the target, the front sight was only slightly blurry, and I could much more easily and precisely pick a point of aim.

...25 yards distances for pistols. At that distance, focusing on the front sight meant the target was almost impossible to discern.

There are many answers to this. It's good to question conventional wisdom.

Lets start w/ shooting groups at 10 or 25yds. You have to learn to shift your focus. Get the gun up with the sights between your eyes and your target. Find your aim point (target focus), then shift your focus back to the front sight. This is where most people fail to align the sights and struggle with the blurry target, they get the FS focus, THEN try to find their aim point which will lead to disaster.

Keep the sights in alignment throughout the trigger press and follow through. Know that everyone has a "wobble zone," in other words the sights will move around on the target some; let it. Trigger press is critical (more so than focus or sight alignment). If you aren't on paper at 25 yds, it's most likely trigger press, not sight alignment. Trigger control is most important, sights in alignment is second, and aim point third.

At 10 yds you can get away with more of a target focus than at 25, but if groups are the goal, then you still need a FS focus. Standing/Unsupported I can keep 5 rounds in or touching a 7/8" paster at 10 yds and consistantly shoot <3.5" groups at 25 yds w/ my glock. This is conventional wisdom for a reason, it IS how you get the most accuracy from your gun.

Now lets talk high speed / defensive [whatever you want to call it shooting] shooting. You have to see what you need to get a center mass hit. This is where the distance starts to matter. Maybe at 5 yds you can get away with a target focus and blurry sights. That distance where a target focus doesn't work is going to vary for everyone. With a target focus, you have to be able to still see the sights enough to not only make a good hit, but know when the sights are re-aligned for follow on shots. For distances past your limit for target focus, you still have to use the FS focus. If there are multiple targets, your focus should be continually changing. find the target and aim point, then align the sights. It's high-speed bullseye. Again, trigger control is critical.

I agree. I've learned to be careful listening to people who only stand and slow fire/Bulls-eye shoot. I listen and learn and respect my elders but some things just don't work well for me like them. Or I have a diff goal like,getting the entire mag in the kill zone not a 1.5inch group.

I am fond of saying that you have to be able to shoot accurately before you can shoot accurately fast. Everyone should be shooting groups, and often. I've learned to be careful listening to people who think there's only one method or one way to do things. Target focus and FS focus are both correct. It depends on the difficulty of the shot, individual skill level, etc as to which is right for a particular shot. You have to see what is necessary to make the hit.

If you're going for pinpoint accuracy - you probably shouldn't be using iron sights... I'm not saying it's not doable - but it's not what they're designed for.

If it's self defense you probably won't be using the sights at all - or at least not with enough time to really decide whether to focus on the sight or the target without substantial training - you will have other things running through your mind.

irons aren't made for pinpoint accuracy? Optics are easier and often faster solely because they allow you focus on the target AND your sights. Since this was a pistol-irons post and few are running red dots or scopes, we'll leave the talk about irons.

As for what we'll do in self defense, I don't know. Not been there, so I can only go on what other have written/said. There are those who recall seeing the serrations on the FS and those who never saw the sights at all. I think it's important to train in a way that allows the situation and the shot to dictate which is correct, so that we are training to do whatever is necessary to make a good hit. I've read anecdotes about people who hesitated to make the shot on someone who is at arms length because they were looking for that FS focus. Conversely, you can watch the news to see what happens at 20yds+ when folks aren't getting that FS focus.... it's bad to be a bystander then. It's bad to be stuck in a "this is the only way" mentality.

But if you've already made up your mind today you won't use the sights, then you probably won't. Doesn't mean that's how it has to be, imo...

-rvb

 

[churchmouse]

I have been a point and shoot guy forever. Totally a defensive way to shoot. Never did much competing but I can group very well if I use the "Sights" as they were intended.
I was taught a military stance and a point and shoot technique that is still basic with me after more years than I care to mention. The theory is...if you are focused on a POI that is what you will hit. It works but not in competition.

I took a class with Coach early this summer just to see what I could learn. He pushed the front sight technique. It did not work for me. Except for head shots on the mini-man cardboard targets I never used the sights at all and scored more hits than most. Old dog....new tricks.

 

[Giddaltti]

"Shifting focus," I just posted my most recent target using my TCP. Exactly what we are discussing. I've been a casual shooter for years and not too bad. But using the TCP I noticed I did better focusing on the target and less on the front sight as long as the sight was in the general direction of myb 'll focus. I had some really good groups. I'll have to try it with my XD.

 

[rgrimm01]

Does it help if you also bellow one long primal scream while dumping the mag?

No, but it does make you feel better...

 

[cedartop]

duh. This thing you are reading... a web SIGHT. gheesh.




There are many answers to this. It's good to question conventional wisdom.

Lets start w/ shooting groups at 10 or 25yds. You have to learn to shift your focus. Get the gun up with the sights between your eyes and your target. Find your aim point (target focus), then shift your focus back to the front sight. This is where most people fail to align the sights and struggle with the blurry target, they get the FS focus, THEN try to find their aim point which will lead to disaster.

Keep the sights in alignment throughout the trigger press and follow through. Know that everyone has a "wobble zone," in other words the sights will move around on the target some; let it. Trigger press is critical (more so than focus or sight alignment). If you aren't on paper at 25 yds, it's most likely trigger press, not sight alignment. Trigger control is most important, sights in alignment is second, and aim point third.

At 10 yds you can get away with more of a target focus than at 25, but if groups are the goal, then you still need a FS focus. Standing/Unsupported I can keep 5 rounds in or touching a 7/8" paster at 10 yds and consistantly shoot <3.5" groups at 25 yds w/ my glock. This is conventional wisdom for a reason, it IS how you get the most accuracy from your gun.

Now lets talk high speed / defensive [whatever you want to call it shooting] shooting. You have to see what you need to get a center mass hit. This is where the distance starts to matter. Maybe at 5 yds you can get away with a target focus. That distance where a target focus doesn't work is going to vary for everyone. With a target focus, you have to be able to still see the sights enough to not only make a good hit, but know when the sights are re-aligned for follow on shots. For distances past your limit for target focus, you still have to use the FS focus. If there are multiple targets, your focus should be continually changing. find the target and aim point, then align the sights. It's high-speed bullseye. Again, trigger control is critical.



I am fond of saying that you have to be able to shoot accurately before you can shoot accurately fast. Everyone should be shooting groups, and often. I've learned to be careful listening to people who think there's only one method or one way to do things. Target focus and FS focus are both correct. It depends on the difficulty of the shot, individual skill level, etc as to which is right for a particular shot. You have to see what is necessary to make the hit.



irons aren't made for pinpoint accuracy? Optics are easier and often faster solely because they allow you focus on the target AND your sights. Since this was a pistol-irons post and few are running red dots or scopes, we'll leave the talk about irons.

As for what we'll do in self defense, I don't know. Not been there, so I can only go on what other have written/said. There are those who recall seeing the serrations on the FS and those who never saw the sights at all. I think it's important to train in a way that allows the situation and the shot to dictate which is correct, so that we are training to do whatever is necessary to make a good hit. I've read anecdotes about people who hesitated to make the shot on someone who is at arms length because they were looking for that FS focus. Conversely, you can watch the news to see what happens at 20yds+ when folks aren't getting that FS focus.... it's bad to be a bystander then. It's bad to be stuck in a "this is the only way" mentality.

But if you've already made up your mind today you won't use the sights, then you probably won't. Doesn't mean that's how it has to be, imo...

-rvb

That is one excellent post. Read it people.

 

[actaeon277]

Does it help if you also bellow one long primal scream while dumping the mag?

[video=youtube;gduv5A2Yisc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduv5A2Yisc[/video]