Florida mandates drug tests for welfare recipients

[level.eleven]

Drug Testing of Public Assistance Recipients as a Condition of Eligibility | American Civil Liberties Union

Warning - ACLU link. Just getting that out there to avoid knee injuries on keyboard trays.

Anyway, they have some data that backs up what mrjarrell is saying. Statistically, drug use is no different among welfare recipients vs. the general population. One of the most interesting statistics is the cost incurred to "catch" a single drug user.

In addition, this has been tried before and was struck down by the courts.

The case, Marchwinski v. Howard, concluded when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit upheld a lower court’s decision striking down the policy as unconstitutional.

I am more interested in what a few of the other states decided to do instead of drug testing. It would seem job training or programs to transition people off of welfare into the workforce are more successful than drug testing. I feel that at its heart, it is nothing more than a last ditch effort to divide opinions on the failed war on some drugs.

So, a welfare recipient fails his drug test and funding is halted. Now what?

 

[rambone]

So, a welfare recipient fails his drug test and funding is halted. Now what?

Try to arrest them so that the taxpayers can pay for them once again.

We are saving some real money here!

 

[88GT]

Try to arrest them so that the taxpayers can pay for them once again.

We are saving some real money here!

You play loose and fast with the rules of logic when it suits your purpose.

Do I have no say in how the money I have paid into these programs is administered, and by whom?

Why is it unreasonable to attach a qualification or two to receiving benefits provided through tax dollars? Forget for a moment that in this particular case it's a bodily fluid, your argument is that the individual's requirement to provide ANY personal information in order to receive benefits is a violation of the 4th and the state has no grounds for knowing it. On what do you base that?

The difference here is the voluntary disclosure issue. The state is not prohibited from knowing your information in the absolute; it is simply prohibited from taking it by force whenever it desires. If it wants to take it by force, so to speak, it must show a compelling reason in the form of probable cause/exigent circumstances or a warrant. However, if it says, here's a welfare check, but you have to pee in a cup to get it first, there is no protection for the individual for the release of his personal information in a VOLUNTARY exchange.

Show me where the Constitution prohibits the state from asking. I see where it only prohibits the state from taking. And make no mistake, it is a request, even if it is tied directly to a desired product. No different than providing an email address to receive a free meal or whatever. They're only asking for the address, but if you want the free meal, you'll have to comply with the terms for receiving it.

This isn't about assuming all on welfare are drug abusers. It's just a small effort to keep all forms of depravity out of the entitlement system. I'm still waiting for someone to explain why those of us who've had our money stolen don't have some say in how/for whom it is used?

 

[Bunnykid68]

You play loose and fast with the rules of logic when it suits your purpose.

Do I have no say in how the money I have paid into these programs is administered, and by whom?

Unfortunately you know the answer to that question. You have no say at all

 

[Bunnykid68]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why those of us who've had our money stolen don't have some say in how/for whom it is used?

Because once it is stolen it is no longer yours.

 

[Stainer]

I don't think drugs should be illegal, but why should we pay for someone's help when they can afford recreational drugs?

When you ask to receive the money taken by force from someone else so that you may live, I don't think it's unreasonable to give up some of your prerogatives.

I never thought I would say this to you dross, but I agree with you! When I'm low on cash, I cut back on my non-necessities, so why can't they?

Anyway, they have some data that backs up what mrjarrell is saying. Statistically, drug use is no different among welfare recipients vs. the general population. One of the most interesting statistics is the cost incurred to "catch" a single drug user.

Does this include prosecution? Because I could care less about that, but if you have a dirty drop, your funding stops. Then, if you would like to re-apply, your fee for the test comes out of your next check. Problem solved.

So, a welfare recipient fails his drug test and funding is halted. Now what?

You give it to someone who REALLY needs it, or put it to better use somewhere else, or wait for it.... wait for it..... cut taxes!

 

[futureofwar]

If the military has mandatory drug testing to WORK for you money then what is wrong with these people being tested to get it for free?

 

[IndyBeerman]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Here come the lawsuits though. Soooo many things create false positives on drug tests and cross-react that it's really hard to prove anything with them.

Good concept but tough in practice.

 

[rambone]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

Is this the part where I owe you an apology thread?

Seriously though, its all just good discussion. If you don't think I have made any valid points then I'm sorry for boring you. My philosophy is just a little different. I prefer direct, free market solutions to problems. I will congratulate any state who moves toward a system of leaving people alone. Want to shrink the welfare budget? Then shrink the welfare budget. Why all this nonsense? Are the legislators interested in saving money or controlling people? Will this program actually be effective or are we just kidding ourselves and adding more B.S. to the system?

 

[dross]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

Well, this IS a GD gun board, but this forum is about politics, and this thread qualifies.

While I don't agree with the two posters you mentioned much of the time, their perspective is valuable here, because it's a perspective at least some of the population shares. Understanding it and arguing against different points of view, even loony ones, is what a discussion board is all about.

Use your arguments to prove them wrong. It doesn't matter if they agree with you, lots of other people read the threads.

Use your intellect to slap them around a little. I do it all the time and it's great sport. If your own arguments aren't up to the challenge, then maybe that's what you should spend your effort on, rather than criticizing them for making their own arguments that you can't effectively counter.

 

[mrjarrell]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

Butthurt (*)......
It happens a lot here on INGO, get over it if it happens to you.

Physician. Heal thyself.
If you're going to get so upset by people holding opposing views to yours, perhaps you should avoid the Politics forum? It's really quite easy. I avoid loads of threads here. Maybe what I, and others post isn't meaningful to you, but it holds some meaning to us and the people who read it and respond.
If it offends you...well, there's not a lot I can, or will do about that. Stay safe out there.

 

[PatriotPride]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

I love the rants and threats and of the ignore list. It's been far too long since we've seen a half-way decent one.

 

[NYFelon]

You know what, I'm about tired of both of you two, that's right Rambone and mrjarrell.

You want to biotch about everything that happens in EVERY state, you know what, if you two are so darn worked up and against Florida residents being submitted to this law, then why don't you guys pack up and move there and biotch about it there.

For goodness sake this is a GD Gun forum and you two guys beat this political forum to death with so much with your spew that people are starting to ignore your posts.

How about trying this on, start by posting meaningful items and not anything on a whim and people might try and start to take some of the things you post seriously, but as it is, it's the little boy shouting "Wolf" every second that there is a chance.

I'm about a half a hair width of adding my second and third names to my ignore list in the 3 years I've been here.

 

[gunman41mag]

What type of MAN, is so weak that he needs an ignore list ???

 

[AZ Hunter]

Well, Im not sure whats going on ^^ but I just checked in for thoughts on the OP's post. I agree with drug testing as a condition. Not sure it will save the state money as they indicated it would still be deligated to a responsible adult to assist the child?!?! I could be wrong there. Anyway, you guys can continue with your game now.

 

[Lucas156]

I would love to get people that are abusing the system off the handouts but I just don't believe this is the end all be all way to do it. It just seems like a slippery slope to me. Can someone please explain to me why they think its not? We need to get rid of all this welfare crap I think we all can agree on but it seems to me like an emotional decision to want the drug tests for welfare. It needs to be a thought out decision. What other methods can be used to get people off the system because right now its just enabling them. I do have to give them credit for thinking of ways to get people off the system I guess its a start. maybe a better way would be make them actually do something productive for society if they are going to be getting that unemployment check rather than doing nothing to earn it. Thats what I think should happen and I bet everyone here can agree on that.

 

[jarheadcatfan]

Awesome, Now only 49 more to go!

 

[MidwestMuzzleloader]

I have to take a drug test to be gainfully employed....Welfare recipiants should have to also

 

[gunman41mag]

Think of it, it's a great idea A lot of welfare takers will leave FLORIDA & go to another state that doesn't make them take a {**** TEST}