First time I had to draw my handgun (in this state)

[HoughMade]

Actually it was the GF who got dressed first.

She answered the door while he was getting dressed. He overheard a conversation long enough to know he was "whiny". His girlfriend apparently didn't believe he was dangerous or feel threatened. Not really that smart to answer the door under those circumstances, but the OP and his girlfriend knew who it was before they opened the door and that enough was not enough to make them feel threatened.

I wasn't there, but if OP ever had to explain it to a jury, this isn't going to make sense to them.

 

[bwframe]

*IF* the person you pointed at had wished to press charges and you gave me the statement you just gave INGO, I'd arrest you. Nothing in your statement rises to the level of pointing a firearm. You could have carried the firearm and told him to leave while holding it down at your side and been fine, but I see nothing in your statement that would be justification for the pointing. No threat had been communicated, no weapon implied, no trespass was taking place as he was in a consentual conversation with an occupant of the property after knocking at the door, and his demeanor is never described as threatening. ...

In the event this would have happened, does this kind of problem effect one's existing LTCH?

 

[Dirtebiker]

Yep, she kinda acted like a child answering the door for anyone bangin on it

Or like the friend of the girl that the victim used to date. I would guess that she was comfortable going outside and talking to/consoling him.
I'd still like to know why the op would not MAKE SURE that he was the first one to the door if he was truly worried or threatened by the victim. (he hasn't answered even though I've asked several times)

 

[nakinate]

Or like the friend of the girl that the victim used to date. I would guess that she was comfortable going outside and talking to/consoling him.
I'd still like to know why the op would not MAKE SURE that he was the first one to the door if he was truly worried or threatened by the victim. (he hasn't answered even though I've asked several times)

Yeah, the first thing out of my mouth to my wife would be, "You stay here and keep your phone and gun ready. I'll check the door with my gun."

 

[Jack Burton]

She answered the door while he was getting dressed. He overheard a conversation long enough to know he was "whiny". His girlfriend apparently didn't believe he was dangerous or feel threatened. Not really that smart to answer the door under those circumstances, but the OP and his girlfriend knew who it was before they opened the door and that enough was not enough to make them feel threatened.

I wasn't there, but if OP ever had to explain it to a jury, this isn't going to make sense to them.

A good enough lawyer can make anything reasonable. Especially when the prosecutor is beating up a young woman on the witness stand.

 

[Frosty]

Yeah, the first thing out of my mouth to my wife would be, "You stay here and keep your phone and gun ready. I'll check the door with my gun."

This! I would have never let my wife leave the bedroom if I seriously thought somebody was a threat. His gf must not have been very concerned about the guy. Sounds like op just doesn't like the guy. Granted if somebody showed up at my house at 2:30 that I didn't like I'd want to scare the **** out of them, but it's not worth going to jail for!

 

[nakinate]

This! I would have never let my wife leave the bedroom if I seriously thought somebody was a threat. His gf must not have been very concerned about the guy. Sounds like op just doesn't like the guy. Granted if somebody showed up at my house at 2:30 that I didn't like I'd want to scare the **** out of them, but it's not worth going to jail for!

I don't like my wife leave the bedroom anyhow!

 

[JettaKnight]

I never focused on the GF.

A picture would help.

 

[nakinate]

A picture would help.

 

[Jack Burton]

Or like the friend of the girl that the victim used to date. I would guess that she was comfortable going outside and talking to/consoling him.
I'd still like to know why the op would not MAKE SURE that he was the first one to the door if he was truly worried or threatened by the victim. (he hasn't answered even though I've asked several times)

Actually, he did answer.

But to remind everyone, this happened in the middle of the night when folk were woken up from sleep with no expectations that they would have to make potentially life changing decisions in a matters of seconds.

I would like to know why posters assume that these conditions lead to clear cut, rational, high order thinking.

 

[nakinate]

Actually, he did answer.

But to remind everyone, this happened in the middle of the night when folk were woken up from sleep with no expectations that they would have to make potentially life changing decisions in a matters of seconds.

I would like to know why posters assume that these conditions lead to clear cut, rational, high order thinking.

Why did he only have a matter of seconds to act? What in this story leads you to believe that? Their front door was closed (presumably locked). This gives them control of the situation. They have time to gather their wits and call for help.

 

[Jack Burton]

Why did he only have a matter of seconds to act? What in this story leads you to believe that? Their front door was closed (presumably locked). This gives them control of the situation. They have time to gather their wits and call for help.

T

You write as if the two were linked together by some kind of mystic bond that cause them to act together in sync. SHE made HER decision to put on her shoes and go answer the door. That was HER choice... not a "we" choice. He followed trying to cobble together a reasonable (to him) response to the incident.

 

[Dirtebiker]

My first roll through this thread.......sounds like maybe a new G.F. is in order.

Or SHE needs a new man!?

 

[HoughMade]

A good enough lawyer can make anything reasonable. Especially when the prosecutor is beating up a young woman on the witness stand.

A smart lawyer wouldn't beat up the young woman on the witness stand. No need. According to this logic, no one is in prison. No lawyer can make "anything reasonable".

At this risk of giving away a professional secret, you just get the information from her with a smile on your face. If she tells the same story he did in the OP, so be it. I'll crucify the defendant with her story and make him either admit she was not scared by this guy or have HIM call her a lier. Not me. Either way, he ends up looking bad.

If she lies about what happened, I can make the jury think I wasn't nearly hard enough on her as I stand there, kind tone of voice, pleasant smile, and just act like I'm confused by her inconsistencies. Inconsistencies that every member of the jury picks up on and think they, themselves discovered on their own, while I just as stand there and ask "easy" questions, apologizing for the inconvenience of her having to be there. Juries like to play detective and the facts you let them discern "for themselves" are more powerful than those you throw in their faces.

Witnesses always think they are the smartest people on earth, but they are in my house when they're on the stand.....I really love what I do.

 

[nakinate]

T

You write as if the two were linked together by some kind of mystic bond that cause them to act together in sync. SHE made HER decision to put on her shoes and go answer the door. That was HER choice... not a "we" choice. He followed trying to cobble together a reasonable (to him) response to the incident.

Right, but how does that mean that she only had seconds to make a decision? My last post still stands. They had control of the situation, even after she answered the door (I thought we weren't supposed to focus on that). The OP could have easily pulled her back inside and closed the door.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Knocks on your door at 230am with a german Shepard and Belgian malinois raising holy hell, would bet he has been to your house enough times to know your dogs wouldn't be a threat, girlfriend sleeping dressed? Are you no longer intimate?

OUCH!

 

[Dirtebiker]

The OP was not responsible for the actions of the GF.

And.......?
Did anyone say he was?

 

[rbMPSH12]

No. It boils down to reasonableness again.

The person is engaged in a robbery regardless of if its a real gun or not. Robbery is a forcible felony. So, if you reasonably believe that deadly force is necessary to stop that forcible felony, you can legally use deadly force. Hypotheticals are tough. If its an 88 year old on a walker, you're a trained MMA fighter, and its obviously his finger, you're going to have a tough sell that it was necessary to stop the forcible felony, however barring oddball circumstances such as that, you're in the clear.

You are under no requirement to see the weapon or to verify the weapon is real.

The difference between this hypothetical and the OP is there was an inference of a weapon, aggressive acts, and a forcible felony taking place.

Right. Thanks for the response. That makes sense.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Since when do we become responsible for the irresponsible decisions of others?

What does this have to do with anything? Am I missing something?

 

[Jack Burton]

A smart lawyer wouldn't beat up the young woman on the witness stand. No need. According to this logic, no one is in prison. No lawyer can make "anything reasonable".

At this risk of giving away a professional secret, you just get the information from her with a smile on your face. If she tells the same story he did in the OP, so be it. I'll crucify the defendant with her story and make him either admit she was not scared by this guy or have HIM call her a lier. Not me. Either way, he ends up looking bad.

If she lies about what happened, I can make the jury think I wasn't nearly hard enough on her as I stand there, kind tone of voice, pleasant smile, and just act like I'm confused by her inconsistencies. Inconsistencies that every member of the jury picks up on and think they, themselves discovered on their own, while I just as stand there and ask "easy" questions, apologizing for the inconvenience of her having to be there. Juries like to play detective and the facts you let them discern "for themselves" are more powerful than those you throw in their faces.

Witnesses always think they are the smartest people on earth, but they are in my house when they're on the stand.....I really love what I do.

Somehow the GF just morphed into a liar with no prior set up. I wasn't aware that lawyers doubled as cheap stage magicians also.