First Confrontation with LEO while OCing

[EvilKidsMeal]

I already did that
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...argueing_for_the_sake_of_argueing_thread.html

haha awesome


i missed that one.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I didn't mention you, or anyone else by name.
I was stating my reason for carrying concealed.
And YES!!!!!
After twenty three years in Law enforcement I know FOR A FACT that the average Citizen will see a firearm as a threat.
As will damn near any Police Officer who wants to go home at the end of his shift.
Mike

no, only the uneducated citizen and LEO's will see it as a threat. the average citizen wouldnt have a clue if you were carrying a rocket launcher on your back.

and officer safety doesnt come before my rights with all due respect.

 

[rmabrey]

OK
I'll get off the subject.
Some of you know how I feel about "Cop Bashers".
They rank right down there with Libs, Socialists, and Democrats.
Mike

Feel free to make your point mike, I wasnt insinuating anything by posting the link to that thread. Just simply replying to someone else

 

[UncleMike]

I try to not twist your words, but in this statement alone you said three condescending things to someone whom you don't know.

1 - I am not intelligent.
2 - I know nothing of responsibilities.
3 - I can't comprehend your position.

You stated in a previous post that you have no feelings for some who is hassled by LEO for OC'ing.
However, there is many documented cases of the hassling being to the point that is ILLEGAL. Do you not have and feeling for them then? Or was it their fault for carrying in a way that "asked for it"? (Yes, the idea of victim blame for rape seems similar to me.)

I totally agree with you that OC comes with responsibilities. It contains all the responsibilities of CC and then some.

If I read too much into your statements, I apologize. I think this is a situation where we just don't agree totally and that is perfectly fine. I respect your service to the community as an LEO.

OK
Lets start at the top.
A. Items 1, 2, 3,
True. I was making a presunption based on your presumptions.
"Hassled by LEO for OC'ing
AT NO time did I say anything about LEO harassment. You once again presumed that I was talking about LEO involvement. Harassment can come from ANYONE. Not just LEO's.
As for hasseling becoming a legal issue with some individuals.
YUP! Some people wearing the uniform have NO business having any authority.
I wasn't one of them!!!!
"If I read too much into your statements, I apologize."
I too apologize if I've misread your statements or intentions.
Having spent the greater part of my adult life trying to be of help to people in need I tend to be overly defensive at times when it comes to Cop bashing.
I don't routinely bash anyones chosen job or profession.
Except some Lawyers.
Mike

 

[Beau]

I'm with you on this UncleMike, I have only CC'd due to the fact that I don't want undue attention brought to me. IF you OC then you will have to EXPECT that attention and not WHINE about it when it comes your way!

I was going to stay out of this whole OC/CC debate but this post is all the way.

To start with it didn't really seem like the OP was whining. Seemed like he states his encounter and gave it a .

Also, why should anyone expect extra attention from LE for doing something that is completely legal? If I'm OC'ing and my rights are violated I feel I have every right to, as you put it, "whine".

 

[indyjoe]

Except some Lawyers.

That can't be held against you, as I believe they are in season year round.

 

[Ramen]

I was going to stay out of this whole OC/CC debate but this post is all the way.

To start with it didn't really seem like the OP was whining. Seemed like he states his encounter and gave it a .

Also, why should anyone expect extra attention from LE for doing something that is completely legal? If I'm OC'ing and my rights are violated I feel I have every right to, as you put it, "whine".

Many people seem to think that you should expect undue attention for doing anything that is legal but they don't think should be. OCing, Sagging, etc...

I love it when firearm owners choose to criminalize something just because they don't do it or because they disagree with it, even though it hurts no one. The hypocrisy is amazing.

 

[downzero]

no, only the uneducated citizen and LEO's will see it as a threat. the average citizen wouldnt have a clue if you were carrying a rocket launcher on your back.

and officer safety doesnt come before my rights with all due respect.

I just want to know how he knows, as a matter of fact, what the "average citizen" thinks, without asking this mysterious "average citizen." Apparently saying something is a fact makes it so. Just imagine if we removed all the rules and I could opine, "as a matter of fact" of what I thought about people hostile to liberty?

Similarly, maybe he can help me find the mythical "reasonable man" who will have all the answers to my torts exam. I'm sure the "reasonable man" hangs out with the "average citizen" who gives him all these facts.

Just a thought....

 

[lashicoN]

I'm with you on this UncleMike, I have only CC'd due to the fact that I don't want undue attention brought to me. IF you OC then you will have to EXPECT that attention and not WHINE about it when it comes your way!

And if I am hassled by any person while I'm freely going about my business, I won't be polite, I won't be friendly, and I don't care if me carrying my means of defense, out in the open, like the United States has done for the past 50 years, makes someone else feel uncomfortable. If you don't like it, buy a bigger gun or stay home. The world isn't comfy and cozy. We aren't safe and sound. People are trying to rob and kill us and I'm not interested in being another cowering fool trying to dial 911 when one should be drawing one's sidearm.

You really need to resist the urge to second guess another persons opinion.
It will do you no good in life.
I, at NO point in my statement, said ANYTHING about my opinion as to whom should be allowed to carry OC.
I was stating MY PERSONAL position on the subject of OC.
If you would spend as much time trying to understand another persons statement as you spend trying to twist their words to fit your argument, you would soon become an intelligent person.
Give it a try!
BTW, I also stated that OC IS legal but that it comes with responsibilities.
Perhaps after you've lived long enough to learn what responsibilities are you will comprehend my position.
Mike

Wow, you really need to take a nap. If you don't like to open carry, then don't open carry. Don't try to tell anyone else what responsible carry is. Everything you do comes with responsibilities. Concealing a firearm doesn't make you a responsible carrier, if it did, criminals would be extremely responsible people. If OC is so irresponsible, why do all police officers do it? Maybe when they are as old as you, they will have finally learned responsibilities.

Not all of us feel the need to act as if we are ashamed of being free citizens, or wish to hide our decision to exercise our rights like some coward cringing at the thought that a cop who thinks we give a rat's rear about his/her worthless opinion may feel the urge to share it.

To imply that choosing to OC is somehow irresponsible is disgusting anti-gunner garbage.

I say they enforce the laws and keep their opinions to themselves. Save us all some time and grief.

I wasn't implying anything Joe!!
Just stating my personal opinion based on my personal experience.
As a lover of freedom you should understand that.
Mike

I don't think you should state your personal opinion out in the open like this. Keep them to yourself. It is highly irresponsible to just go around talking freely. Some people will hear you and not like what you have to say. Imagine how many people you will offend with this freedom of speech. Yes, yes, it's much more responsible to keep your speech restricted and hidden away from public sight.

 

[eatsnopaste]

OH yeah, ALL lawyers are bottom feeders...except yours when you need him!

 

[HandK]

 

[paddling_man]

I think you would fear the gun you can't see.

I fear the see that I can't gun.

QFT

 

[patton487]

no, only the uneducated citizen and LEO's will see it as a threat. the average citizen wouldnt have a clue if you were carrying a rocket launcher on your back.

and officer safety doesnt come before my rights with all due respect.

^^^This!! And seeing a person out in public with a gun on his hip does not bother me in the least. If fact, an LEO walking by bothers me more because of the potential for him to think (mistakenly) he has the authority to disarm me for his "safety"

 

[jclark]

I have OC'd just about everywhere In Evansville and never get a second look.
Maybe I look like a LEO.

I guess if you OC you have to just deal with the fact that you will possibly be stopped by a LEO and have to show your permit.
I don't see it as a big deal.
Most LEO's are pretty cool around here.

 

[Indy317]

I love it when firearm owners choose to criminalize something just because they don't do it or because they disagree with it, even though it hurts no one. The hypocrisy is amazing.

Tell me about it. It is like when OCers say someone who decides to OC by carrying their gun in their hand, instead of in a holster, might be worth being checked out, or at least watched, by the cops.

 

[patton487]

I have OC'd just about everywhere In Evansville and never get a second look.
Maybe I look like a LEO.

I guess if you OC you have to just deal with the fact that you will possibly be stopped by a LEO and have to show your permit.
I don't see it as a big deal.
Most LEO's are pretty cool around here.

You are very lucky to have good LEO's in your area that know the law and respect it.

There was a thread earlier this year about the town I live in. Guy was OCing at a local grocery store. 2 LEO's shadow him around the store, then confront him outside. Even though he is legal, LTCH and all. They disarmed him, handcuffed him and told he is lucky they didn't shoot him.

Basically treated him like a criminal. These are the kind of encounters that people object to. The OP's encounter is how it should work all the time.

 

[E'villeGunner]

I guess if you OC you have to just deal with the fact that you will possibly be stopped by a LEO and have to show your permit.
I don't see it as a big deal.
Most LEO's are pretty cool around here.

Exactly

 

[Ramen]

Tell me about it. It is like when OCers say someone who decides to OC by carrying their gun in their hand, instead of in a holster, might be worth being checked out, or at least watched, by the cops.

 

[MinuteMan47]

I'm with you on this UncleMike, I have only CC'd due to the fact that I don't want undue attention brought to me. IF you OC then you will have to EXPECT that attention and not WHINE about it when it comes your way!

How was the OP "WHINING"?

He gave the BCSD a +1 for the way they handled it.

It seems other people here are whining.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

My MIL lives there, maybe I should start OC when in town?

It sounds like he broke the law by asking you for your LTCH.

An LEO can start a conversation with anyone. If YOU (in this case the OP) decide to engage him and not assert your rights the LEO has broken no law. It sounds to me like the OP took the path of least resistance. That is an individual decision, and I myself have gone that way a time or two as well. I have also asserted my rights when engaged in legal activity where there was no reason to believe there was a crime afoot. Since I was not there I will offer no judgement on the OP's actions. That's a call we all have to make at the time. But the LEO did not break the law.