Fight for $15...

[BehindBlueI's]

No. I am mad because they are too dumb to realize they are being played by special interest groups. The result of their demands, if met, will raise the cost of goods & services people buy to compensate for their pay, which raises overall cost of living and then I will make even less than I do (relative to COL), until I am forced to join them to put food on our table.

I think we've been over this multiple times on INGO.

1) Labor is a small portion of the cost of most goods. I'm not doing the research and math again, I've already posted on INGO specifics.

2) Prices are not set by the cost of making the product. You go to buy shoes. You like pair "A" and pair "B" but only want one pair. Does "how much did this cost to make" enter your decision making process? No, of course not, you neither know nor care. As such the price of the good does not affect demand. Now, let's say shoe "A" used to cost $10 to make and they sell every pair they can manufacture. They automate, get price breaks on raw material, etc. and their costs go down to $5. Do they lower the retail price $5? Of course not. The market is already supporting the current price. The market (via supply/demand) sets price. Profitability might change. New entrants to the market might change...but that doesn't affect supply on non-fungible goods.

3) What people think is the free market is generally not the free market. Can you go open a McDonald's and sell Big Macs? No, unless you pay for a franchise and become part of the McDonald's business structure. McDonalds has a monopoly on Big Macs, but they can't sell Whoppers. Restaurants are generally competitive monopolies. The supply side is not as fluid as a true free market or commodity markets. Price fluctuations for Big Macs does not affect the availability of Big Macs (supply) but will effect demand, although to what extent depends on how many people decide another food item is a good substitute.

4) Wages injected at the lower end of the economy get spent at a higher percentage rate than at the higher end. Money is to the economy what water is to a mill. If it ain't moving, it ain't doing any work.

5) Real wages for most workers, from the low end to the middle, have dropped over the past few decades and the rate is increasing.

6) Nobody is arguing this should be a career or its anything but entry level. However, people willing to work should at least make enough to support themselves. We, as taxpayers, subsidize these employers who do not pay a living wage via social benefits. IMO, its smarter, more efficient, and increases the incentive to work for the employer to bear the burden of paying an employee enough to live on. $15 is likely too much for that bare minimum of replacement cost, and will vary based on location. Everytime this comes up people get hung up on $15. That's how negotiations work. Start with a goal, negotiate from there.

 

[SSGSAD]

So you're mad they are trying to improve their wages because they might get closer or surpass you because you are willing to accept what you currently make without protest?

I don't know, about the op, but I used to work Fast Food.

Dairy Queen, $1.60 ph, 2.35 was Min., and McD., 2.35 Min.,

My complaint, they CAN'T even put napkins in the dispenser, the RIGHT WAY.....

WHAT makes them think, they are worth $15.00

 

[BehindBlueI's]

WHAT makes them think, they are worth $15.00

How much money does each man-hour make for McDonald's and the economy as a whole?

Thats what I was thinking. Walmart is raising wages next year or whenver. Not because its the RIGHT thing to do...just competition for their labor pool is tite and they need a minimum of 4 people per store to stay open.

...and you the taxpayer has been subsidizing Wal-marts wages to the tune of $6.2 billion.


Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance

 

[ARRAY]

I agree with SSGSAD what makes them think they are worth 15 an hour, when they can't get your order right, not only putting napkins in dispensers but also in the carry out bag your food is in, if and when you can place your order is only after they are through playing on their phones at the counter, and you don't dare say anything and expect to get good food if you upset one of them, and from the ones that are employed now a days they have no drive to do better they just want it all handed to them anyways.

 

[SSGSAD]

How much money does each man-hour make for McDonald's and the economy as a whole?

I don't know, I do NOT have 2015 figures available, but the markup, when I was there, was 600%.....


...and you the taxpayer has been subsidizing Wal-marts wages to the tune of $6.2 billion.


Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance

.....

 

[ARRAY]

and places like McD's those are supposed to be started jobs not careers, there is a big difference.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

from the ones that are employed now a days they have no drive to do better they just want it all handed to them anyways.

So people who are working a job and protesting to try to get better pay have no drive and just want it handed to them?

I thought this country valued working for a living. We want these jobs done, right? Getting out and protesting isn't drive to better their situations?

 

[SSGSAD]

So people who are working a job and protesting to try to get better pay have no drive and just want it handed to them?

I thought this country valued working for a living. We want these jobs done, right? Getting out and protesting isn't drive to better their situations?

Learning the JOB, and getting better at it, is the way to better YOUR position .....

 

[hoosierdoc]

Those numbers aren't mine, they came from the employer of the $1200/day dock workers. You could call them and say they don't know how much it costs to employ their workers if you want.

Union Workers Force Shut-Down of Western Ports

The payroll for just 13,600 ILWU workers that man the West Coast ports was a stunning $1.4 billion in 2013.

I believe you're a tad high on that salary Doc. Longshoremen on the west coast average around 100 to 120 thousand a year including bennies. And bennies run about 40 grand.. Their bennies cost so much because they get them from cradle to grave.

 

[K_W]

Those numbers aren't mine, they came from the employer of the $1200/day dock workers. You could call them and say they don't know how much it costs to employ their workers if you want.

Union Workers Force Shut-Down of Western Ports

"members"

I doubt they're making $294k a year each.

(49 worked weeks yr) x (5 day / wk) x $1200 per day

The payroll for just 13,600 ILWU workers that man the West Coast ports was a stunning $1.4 billion in 2013.

1.4b / 13600 = 120k yr average

 

[17 squirrel]

Those numbers aren't mine, they came from the employer of the $1200/day dock workers. You could call them and say they don't know how much it costs to employ their workers if you want.

Union Workers Force Shut-Down of Western Ports

I don't have to call them. Because its just not true what you are saying.
And I will add to the link below.
U.S. longshoremen earn three times average national wage

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dockworker-pay-20150301-story.html#page=1

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...emen-dockworkers-editorials-debates/23708675/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...emen-dockworkers-editorials-debates/23708675/

And with full disclosure I will add that my ex-wife of more than 20 years father is Senior Partner of a DC law firm that represents around 60 International Unions. If the Longshoreman made the money you are saying, both my ex and I would have been working as Longshoreman a long time ago.

 

[17 squirrel]

A few Longshoreman in Supervisior positions will make 125 to maybe 225 thou a year.. but they are working 6 or 7 days a week doing 12 to 14 hour shifts.

 

[rhino]

I think we've been over this multiple times on INGO.

1) Labor is a small portion of the cost of most goods. I'm not doing the research and math again, I've already posted on INGO specifics.

Do you have a pointer to your previous messages?

I find it difficult (i.e. impossible) to believe that payroll costs are a "small portion" of operating costs of a fast food franchise. Many if not most of them operate on a less than 5% profit margin as it is.

Artificially and arbitrarily increasing hourly wages doesn't just increase how much the employees get paid, it also increases all of the other payroll expenditures such the matching half of the income and SS/medicare/medicaid taxes, unemployment taxes, etc.

 

[K_W]

Do you have a pointer to your previous messages?

I find it difficult (i.e. impossible) to believe that payroll costs are a "small portion" of operating costs of a fast food franchise. Many if not most of them operate on a less than 5% profit margin as it is.

Artificially and arbitrarily increasing hourly wages doesn't just increase how much the employees get paid, it also increases all of the other payroll expenditures such the matching half of the income and SS/medicare/medicaid taxes, unemployment taxes, etc.

Second only to material costs.

How Higher Minimum Wage for Fast-Food Workers Can Affect Prices

 

[Dead Duck]

I worked for the Kernel frying chicken my Sophomore year for Minimum. That was $1.05 and Hr. at the time.
I got on at ScottLad foods at $1,35 per and thought I had hit the jackpot.
Then Krogers Sacking and Part time stacking for $1.75 per and I was really in it then. That went up to $2.05 and I bought a new car.

How much were new Pintos?

 

[spec4]

Let's suppose they get the $15 they want. Doubt that it will be the end of it, just the beginning. If I had a fast food operation and my people went on strike over this I would fire them even if I had to close down while I hire replacements. This is just another tentacle of liberalism creeping in to "fundamentally change America".

 

[17 squirrel]

How much were new Pintos?

Under 2 thousand dollar's in the early 70's.. For awhile if you bought a loaded Lincoln Continental you got a free Pinto.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I find it difficult (i.e. impossible) to believe that payroll costs are a "small portion" of operating costs of a fast food franchise. Many if not most of them operate on a less than 5% profit margin as it is.

Nope. Don't confuse corporate with the individual franchise. Easy mistake.

Well, two big mistakes. The first one is pretty easy to make, and honestly I made the same mistake when I started looking into how much of a percentage of their food was labor costs. Corporate McDonald's isn't the franchise, and looking at the parent company's numbers don't show you anything about how it works at the individual restaurant level. The profit margin per store is significantly higher than the cut the corporate parent company makes.

The average McD's profit margin is a bit better than 25%. See pg. 37 of McD's franchise agreement:

http://www.bluemaumau.org/sites/default/files/MCD 2013 FDD.pdf

So the workers are earning the franchise owner 25-27% + his salary as manager if he runs it himself, +4% for corporate. That's quite a step up from 6% a store.

The second mistake isn't obvious at first, but once its pointed out it becomes so. Is profit for the owner and corporate the only value their labor has? If $2,400,000 passed through an individual McDonald's restaurant and 75% of that isn't McD's profit, where'd the money go? It got spent. Farmers got paid and made money. Truck drivers got paid and made money. Distributors, wholesalers, accountants, lawyers, oil companies, everyone got paid so that the McDonald's could do business, and if the workers didn't work, nobody buys McD's and McD's doesn't have the money to pay them. All of those people sold more goods and services because McDonald's exists and sells $2.4 million of food, and without the workers to prepare it...then what? Fewer cows raised, fewer trucks on the road, fewer accountants counting beans, fewer paper cups being made, etc. etc. The money those people make decreases, the money they spend decreases, etc. etc.

In the same way, if Joe Millionaire starts a company and makes a 5% ROI, that's not the full value of his investment. It's HIS return, but the value to the economy as a whole is much wider due to wages which cycle through the economy.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...7940-minimum-wage-increase-4.html#post5741468

 

[K_W]

Under 2 thousand dollar's in the early 70's.. For awhile if you bought a loaded Lincoln Continental you got a free Pinto.

Back in 2005 you could buy select (i.e. loaded) Kia Sorento or Optima vehicles and get a "free" Rio with manual trans, no a/c, and no radio.

 

[Leadeye]

Just have to see how it shakes out, if certain cities pay the higher wage and the fast food joints close up, the jobs and taxes will be gone. Maybe the locals might just go along with a more expensive price for burgers and just spend more, hard to say.