Fed Judge overturns CA ban on gay marriage

[dross]

Before my daughter was born, I was kind of hoping she'd turn out lesbian. I figured heck, good at sports and I'd always be the most important man in her life, so what's the downside? Unfortunately she seems to really like boys. Damn the luck. Boys are icky.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Before my daughter was born, I was kind of hoping she'd turn out lesbian. I figured heck, good at sports and I'd always be the most important man in her life, so what's the downside? Unfortunately she seems to really like boys. Damn the luck. Boys are icky.

 

[BloodEclipse]

People don't CHOOSE to be homosexual. You are what you are born, no one would openly choose to be a second class citizen in this country.

Show me proof.
This is nothing more than your opinion, which you present it as fact.

 

[Roadie]

You can Google this yourself, and find that there is much disagreement on homosexuality being hereditary. There is no PROOF that it is. On the contrary, for example, Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project found that "Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired"

 

[Roadie]

This country was not founded as a "Christian" nation. To think that is to be woefully ignorant of our history.

Our founding fathers sought to separate our government from any formal religion, including Christianity. They sought to create an environment where people could practice any religion they desired, or no religion at all.

Many of our founding fathers were Deists and Unitarians and not traditional Christians. Some were even Atheist as far as we can tell. George Washington made no formal declaration of his religious beliefs and didn't even ask for clergy to be present at his death bed - which was common in his day.

Thomas Jefferson said: "I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote: "The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."

Thomas Jefferson also wrote in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Assoc. in 1802 which said: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution said: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

Benjamin Franklin said: "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."

As a matter of fact, not one of the first six Presidents was an orthodox Christian according to the 1968 Encyclopedia Brittanica (page 420).

Our Pledge of Allegiance as written in 1892 and originally read:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and [to] the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The "under God" part was added in 1954.

Heck, "In God we Trust" wasn't even on all US currency until after the Civil War.

P.S. I'm a proud Christian but I'm also a Constitutionalist and Libertarian. I have absolutely no desire to force my religion or morals on others as I believe 100% in freedom - no matter how distasteful.

While it may not have been founded AS a Christian nation, it was founded ON Christian and religious morality and principles.

Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury church showed that the STATE would stay out of the CHURCH, not vice versa. The Wall of Seperation has been twisted from Jefferson's original intent.

I suggest you check out the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS exhibit on Religion and the Founding Fathers here: Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (Library of Congress Exhibition)

That exhibit shows documents and stories about things like:

Church services being held IN the Capitol Building
Prayer meetings held BEFORE Congressional Sessions
A Federally funded Bible
A national day of "Thanksgiving to God"
A national "Day of Fasting"
A scanned copy of an actual letter from Ben Franklin asking that Congress be started with prayer.
Hamilton's draft of Washington's final speech that contained an admonishment that national morality requires religion.
[SIZE=-1]John Hargrove's sermon before Congress. [/SIZE]


All anecdotal proof that the Founding Fathers DID let religion into politics, but did not want religion RUNNING politics. A fine line, but a difference nonetheless. They also wanted the Politics to stay out of religion.

As stated previously, we are no longer allowed to quote from other sites here on INGO, so I am wary of even quoting copyright free material, so I am afraid you will have to read it in more detail for yourself.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

While it may not have been founded AS a Christian nation, it was founded ON Christian and religious morality and principles.

Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury church showed that the STATE would stay out of the CHURCH, not vice versa. The Wall of Seperation has been twisted from Jefferson's original intent.

I suggest you check out the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS exhibit on Religion and the Founding Fathers here: Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (Library of Congress Exhibition)

That exhibit shows documents and stories about things like:

Church services being held IN the Capitol Building
Prayer meetings held BEFORE Congressional Sessions
A Federally funded Bible
A national day of "Thanksgiving to God"
A national "Day of Fasting"
A scanned copy of an actual letter from Ben Franklin asking that Congress be started with prayer.
Hamilton's draft of Washington's final speech that contained an admonishment that national morality requires religion.
[SIZE=-1]John Hargrove's sermon before Congress. [/SIZE]


All anecdotal proof that the Founding Fathers DID let religion into politics, but did not want religion RUNNING politics. A fine line, but a difference nonetheless. They also wanted the Politics to stay out of religion.

As stated previously, we are no longer allowed to quote from other sites here on INGO, so I am wary of even quoting copyright free material, so I am afraid you will have to read it in more detail for yourself.

There is alot of aspects which do support you, verses what FA said.

Just be wary of the New policy involving religion.

 

[Roadie]

There is alot of aspects which do support you, verses what FA said.

Just be wary of the New policy involving religion.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

Show me proof.
This is nothing more than your opinion, which you present it as fact.

You prove the reverse. There have been scientific studies saying as much, not to mention you could just ask, ya know, the gay people. I really dont care enough to google it, you seem to be the one with the issues so you do it.

I just honestly don't see why anyone thinks that they have the right to determine how others live their lives.

 

[Stickfight]

While it may not have been founded AS a Christian nation, it was founded ON Christian and religious morality and principles

So not exclusively christian (morality and principles)?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Some studies have shown that hormone levels in the mother during gestation have quite a bit to do with the sexuality of the child.

For instance, lower levels of testosterone during gestation in a male baby will lead to an underdeveloped masculine identity, and vice versa for girls.

So, while homosexuality isn't inherrited, as there is no "gay gene" (as of yet), it is something that people are born with. I don't doubt that there is also some part of it that is nurture to go along with nature. It is also up to each individual as to how they act upon their feelings. In all studies of behavior, statistically, it is 50-50 nature and nurture.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Does it matter? Doesnt make my statement any less.

Any less what?

Now go on about your life, as SCOTUS tells you how to life, and when they say Guns are illegal, YOU FOLLOW IT.

Actually, the SCOTUS ruled in Heller that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. Thus, they ruled the exact opposite of what you *think* they're going to rule. How is it you extrapolate that ruling to mean they're going to rule all "guns are illegal"?

You seemingly hate government. You probably believe in UFO's, think the Trade Center was taken down by bombs planted by the government and that Elvis is in hiding with Hitler in a government bunker somewhere. Just guessing though...

But despite your cries that the sky is falling, we've actually made some pretty big inroads through the courts in the last few years including the recent Chicago decision. So to think the SCOTUS is going to rule "guns are illegal" indicates to me you're completely lost on the subject.

Against INGO policy for me to cite as it crosses the line. So unfortunately, I cannot hold your hand, and walk you to the information, but it is certainly there.

It's against INGO policy to back up your claims by posting direct links and your own commentary referencing those links? Did they apply special rules just for you?

...just when I thought I've heard every excuse on the internet.

Here's the rule you're trying to hide behind.

6) Do not post any written content that is not yours on INGunOwners.com.
Do not post news articles, content from blogs or any other content from sites around the web on INGunOwners.com . Feel free to post your own words and a link to the content but DO NOT copy and paste any text that does not belong to you on INGunOwners.com.

I'll give you a bone though.

We're getting started, finally. But you have a little ways to go. You've cited a few sources but you've failed to include your own commentary as to why you feel these sources justify your position that Section 1 of the 14th Amendment is illegal.

Here are my cites.

Naturalization Act of 1790 - Washington

How does this make Section 1 of the 14 Amendment illegal?

Book of Fate quote - Jefferson

Again, in your view how does this negate or conflict with Section 1 of the 14th Amendment?

Liberia = Capital Monrovia - Monroe

How does this relate to Section 1 of the 14th Amendment and our discussion here?

Lincoln/Douglas Debate of 1858 - Lincoln

Ambiguous. What quotes specifically are you referencing here and how do they relate to the legality of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment?

Preamble - Constitution.

...and what does this:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

...have to do with this:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

More specifically, how does the Preamble conflict Section 1 of the 14th Amendment thereby making it illegal in your view?

These are the bare minimum, keep showing your ignorance of history, coupled with an arrogance of debating; You certainly are not winning anything here, other than showing the Originalist where you failed in American History, Constitution and the Founders intent.

How can one show an "arrogance of debating"? I'm a noun, debate is a verb.

Anyway, I certainly never failed a history course and given what I've seen here posted by you, I would say history probably wasn't your strong point. Just because you surf conspiracy websites all day long doesn't mean your an authority on US history.

Instead of taking cheap shot after cheap shot, why not back up your claim of being an authority on US history with some meaningful content in your posts? You keep hiding behind ambiguity and claims of being shackled by the rules.

This is your doggybone, you research the above, of your own accord, make of it, whatever you wish. I didnt say anything other than YOU (Full auto) are wrong, and that the 14A is unConstitutional.

You can believe that, and once it's over turned by the SCOTUS I'll buy you a beer. Until that point, it's the law of the land.

Once again for the sake of clarity, least you forget, I'm only discussing Section 1 of the 14th Amendment as it relates to the OP's post.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Well hay....if a federul juj over ruled on gay marruj...duz that mean pretty soon I can marry my couzin cuz she's pretty hot

 

[MilitaryArms]

Well hay....if a federul juj over ruled on gay marruj...duz that mean pretty soon I can marry my couzin cuz she's pretty hot

Do you have any pictures of your cousin?

 

[ATOMonkey]

PICSORBAN!!!!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Do you have any pictures of your cousin?

Huh? you wanna see yer sister nekkid?

 

[shibumiseeker]

Huh? you wanna see yer sister nekkid?

If she looks like your avatar, I say GO FOR IT!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

So what's next if the government keeps sticking their nose where it shouldn't go? Incest and polygamy going to be legal? They would be contracts between partners just the same as heteros- and homos-. Where will this eventually stop? PETA where are you when we need you!!!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

If she looks like your avatar, I say GO FOR IT!

LOL I remember in high school years traveling back to Ohio to see family...oh how I thought about my cousin in those daisy dukes! I could probably have gotten away with it....I'm adopted!!

 

[dross]

So what's next if the government keeps sticking their nose where it shouldn't go? Incest and polygamy going to be legal? They would be contracts between partners just the same as heteros- and homos-. Where will this eventually stop? PETA where are you when we need you!!!

Why do you care what two consenting adults do? That's the part I can never get. I don't waste two seconds thinking about the way other people want to live their lives.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Why do you care what two consenting adults do? That's the part I can never get. I don't waste two seconds thinking about the way other people want to live their lives.

But yet people of a similar mindset preach to their friends and family about freedom and how they love it... and would even fight and die for it.