Fast food CEO: Minimum wage hikes closing locations

[Lex Concord]

If charity and assistance are so omnipresent for the needs of the poor, why did government programs start?

I never suggested omnipresence; I merely challenged the assertion that you would not be here without them. You took one path. Others were likely available. The world will never know.

Why do people in other countries still die of incredibly easily treated diseases? Why do so many lack even adequate clean drinking water?

Government corruption is one of many reasons. Some governments behaving differently would increase survival rates even without enacting assistance programs.

You can lie to yourself, but I know better. It is not abstract to me. I'm quite aware of what government programs have helped me go from a house with no running water to a comfortable middle class existence, from food stamps to the GI Bill. I've traveled abroad too much and seen too many things to believe that simple charity from the community is enough to successfully combat poverty.

Successfully combating poverty is like winning the drug war. It won't happen. Some people may be helped, but if one moral hazard is exercised to combat another, what have we really won?

I'm glad you had a positive experience. It is a counterbalance to the wonders of assistance and the subsidy of sloth and irresponsibility that I literally have living next door to me making at least a portion of my taxation feel like a most definite armed robbery.

Help is one thing; we've woven a hammock, and it needs to be snipped.

 

[saleen4971]

Yikes. Minimum wage in NY is $8/hr... I'd have to give up smoking! (Although I have cut back to about 1/4th pack a day now... after quiting for two months... where before I smoked a pack a day.... baby steps to quitting.)


Then again, places like NY is so expensive to live that a lot of young people live at home with their parents anyway. A Rising Share of Young Adults Live in Their Parents? Home | Pew Research Center?s Social & Demographic Trends Project

Luckily for me, I had a (minimum wage) job at as a teenager in HS, and literally on my 18th birthday was able to afford to move out and afford a crappy shotgun house downtown. Even today, at 26, my rent is laughably cheap... and I have a house with a yard and a view of the Ohio river... granted it's not the 'best' part of town, but in my small town even the 'bad part' is 'good' when compared to a lot of other places. I can deal with the occasional shouting I hear outside and keep an eye on the sketchy people on the corner, across the street and on the other corner. :P

just an FYI - smoke prices vary in NY.

on NYC, yes you can pay 15 a pack. i know, i've seen me do it. outside of the 5 boroughs though - it is under 11 for marlboro. unless you buy in a bar (which is always more) - i paid almsot 20 bucks for a pack in a bar in NYC once.

so glad i quit, even with it being 5 a pack here.

 

[Vigilant]

My dad felt the same way with his business. He always paid as little as he could get away with and he was constantly having trouble with his guys, since the only ones that would work for him were the ones who couldn't get a job somewhere else. When dad died, the first thing we did was give one particular guy a raise. That was almost ten years ago and the same guy is still with us and we don't know what we'd do without him. He appreciates that we take care of him and he goes the extra mile for us, and everyone's happy.

I said NOTHING about paying as little as possible! I pay what the job is worth! How much do you think unboxing something and putting legs on it is worth? The product is made, you literally take the box off, throw it away, and screw four legs or four wheels in the pre-provided places and then set it in place. By what stretch of imagination can you see that being more than $8-10 per hour? I don't have trouble with my guys, they agree to work for a price, and I pay them. I also provide transport to and from the job site, and many times meals, but it is what it is, a low to no skilled job, why should I pay $12 or $15 or $20, because someone thinks they are entitled to more?

 

[Crbn79]

If anyone believes the $.29 per meal increase load of..., I've got some ocean front property to sell you in Oklahoma!

Also, you raise the pay scale to $15/hr and those people who need that job are now unemployed making $0/hr. Why you ask? Because over-qualified people will quit all their median jobs and flood the building with Resumes in hand! Now these same people want the Govt to pay them to sit at home and do nothing because it's the Govt's fault they lost their job.

 

[Hotdoger]

Backlash over $15 wage plan

Backlash over $15 wage plan - Boze Blog - MyNorthwest.com

 

[Hotdoger]

Here is a good one about SeaTac and there 15 DAH wage. Intresting comments from those effected. LOL


Surprise! Leftist minimum wage policy backfires in Seattle suburb | United Liberty | Free Market - Individual Liberty - Limited Government

 

[cobber]

So with more fast food places closing, where will the Mommies and Open Carry Texas next take the fight?

Does having fewer FF restaurants make us safer?

 

[Rookie]

The math is out there. McDonald's is a publicly traded company, you can see their books for yourself and see what portion of their expenses stem from labor. If McDonald's raised their hourly workers to $15 an hour, a value meal goes up an average of 29 cents if profits aren't to be touched. Eat there once a week, and you're looking at $15 over the course of a year. Hardly Earth shattering to the consumer, potentially life changing for the employee.

McDonalds probably wouldn't suffer. What about the mom and pop shops?

 

[Hotdoger]

rookie re. link post 86

Hotel employees lost their free food, parking and overtime. Wait staff received less in tips.

 

[Harleyrider_50]

As the owner/president/CEO/secretary...ad nauseum of my "corporation" anyone who tells me to lower my salary/profit margin/"bonus" can go fornicate themselves! That $10 or $8 am hour employee didn't risk a damned thing to work for me, he gets paid whether I make a profit or not. He works the hours allotted and gets his paycheck, some weeks and months I get nothing, yet he is still paid for the hours worked. Did HE start the business, no! Does he work 60 plus hours a week, no! Does he stress over payroll taxes, sales tax, personal property tax, no! Does he worry that there may not be money to put fuel in the trucks so he can do his job, no! His is to simply put in his hours, do his job, go home to his family, and pick up his paycheck on Friday. So far, My employees are under no illusion that the job they do is worth more than they are paid. When it comes that time, I will look for new ones. All this b..ching
about "fair wage" or "living wage" is absurd, when employees put out the same risk as the owners, then they can talk about fair wages. Until then work for what you are paid, if it isn't enough, find someone who pays you more for the same thing!

An' at's ALL HE OWES YA.........PERIOD......is his/her time........

All'em other headaches an' bullsh*t.......?........ain't they problem, cuzz........ya ain't do'n enuff for it ta matter.....

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

An' at's ALL HE OWES YA.........PERIOD......is his/her time........ All'em other headaches an' bullsh*t.......?........ain't they problem, cuzz........ya ain't do'n enuff for it ta matter.....

Exactly , but it never stops there does it ? The more you give the greedy bastards the more they want from you .

 

[Harleyrider_50]

Exactly , but it never stops there does it ? The more you give the greedy bastards the more they want from you .

Aaaaay, dude!.....how go's it?....


Yeah.....I mean, less they offer employee benefits, like profit share'n, sh*t like 'at.......no incentive ta do more'n the wage, ya know?......

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If anyone believes the $.29 per meal increase load of..., I've got some ocean front property to sell you in Oklahoma!

Ok, show us where its wrong. Like I said, McD's is publicly traded. You know what the current minimum wage is. You have access to how much of McD's expense is labor related, both wages, employer taxes, and benefits. Its simple math from there. An individual sandwich would have to go up 16-24 cents, and the sandwich is the least profitable part of the meal. An entire value meal would have to go up no more than 29 cents. That increase would cover the additional wages and payroll taxes, assuming flat sales. Its probably a high end estimate, as it assumes that every employee makes minimum wage right now, which is unlikely. It also assumes that turnover, absences, employee acquisition costs (hiring, training, administration, etc.) would remain flat, although its more likely that all of these would become more favorable for the employer, further reducing the true cost and without cutting into its $5.5 billion + profits each year.

This seems to be one of the major arguments against living wages for Americans, allowing illegals into our country based on "economic need", etc. Scare tactic hypothetical pricing that says "if you give these guys a decent standard of living, your own standard of living will go down", which is particularly funny when some of the same folks then preach the role of charity. Much like the $12 tomatoes mentioned in the illegal immigrant thread, these prices are just pulled out of the speaker's posterior, though, with zero facts behind the number.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

McDonalds probably wouldn't suffer. What about the mom and pop shops?

I don't know. How many employees does the average mom and pop shop have who aren't family members/stake holder in the business? What is the average percentage of expenses that are payroll related for hourly non-tipped employees? What type of business? Generally speaking, non-managerial labor makes up 20-25% of the cost of running a restaurant. Agriculture is closer to 30-40%, depending the crop. Retail can be as low as 10%. Those are industry averages, and I don't know if small businesses tend to aggregate at the top or the bottom. My guess would be the bottom, labor wise, as they would pay more for their product/raw goods as they like the economy of scale that larger players have. I did the first 3 years of an accounting degree at U of L (minoring in accounting, don't ask why) and did get far enough to be able to look through a company's books and determine if they are profitable, efficient for their industry, etc. I didn't get far enough to have more than general knowledge of individual industries, though. Without data, I'd just be pulling numbers out of my backside.

However, wage increases can't be looked at in a vacuum. How would more locals with disposable income affect mom and pop businesses? The fallacy being sold to us is that a $1 increase in wages = $1 out of our pockets at the retail level, which doesn't hold up tot he math because wages aren't the only cost of running a business. A 40% raise in non-supervisory farm workers salaries, for example, increases grocery store costs less than 3% on average (some produce more, some less, depending on how labor intensive that particular crop is). However that doesn't mean all farms would be impacted the same, as they don't have the same scale and same efficiences.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And to further clarify, I'm not advocating for or against a $15 an hour minimum wage. I'm giving facts so that people can make up their own mind, as opposed to going on numbers pulled out of people's backsides and scare tactics. An increased wage alone will not close the wage gap, although it will help some workers. Others will lose their jobs, either to a more efficient employee now doing more work and reducing the number of positions, or to technology, or to a combination. The net effect may be limited, with one employee now making a comfortable wage but another unemployed.

An example is automated forklifts. Forklift operators tend to make somewhere between $12-$16/hr. Automated forklifts can do their job in most warehouse environments. Replacing human labor with the automated systems is usually profitable within 2-4 years from the inital outlay. However, automated forklifts require skilled technicians to maintain and repair them, as well as to program them, monitor and upgrade them, etc. The warehouse will be on the hook for a few new employees in the form of those technicians. They will make higher wages than what the forklift operators made. The man/machine combo will save the company money, the man in the combo will make higher wages, but the man who was replaced is out of a job. Someone benefitied, but the wage gap widened further, as fewer workers are making more money.

It is not a simple problem, nor is it one that only affects one industry. As technology improves, more and more jobs are subject to man/machine replacement, employing fewer (but better paid) workers.

 

[Crbn79]

As I said, they would be out of a job. The National Median wage is $12.71/hr. If McD's starts paying $15/hr I'll at least take a part-time job there myself. It's Minimal work, minimal effort, and chances of you being called in on your day off, kept late, etc: Little to none.

 

[sb0]

Fast food CEO: Minimum wage hikes closing locations

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fast-food-ceo-minimum-wage-172542952.html

HD: LOL at the leftist idiots.

Economic illiteracy needs to be destroyed.

Raising min wage in a low margin, labor intensive industry? Yeah, just brilliant.

I'd say replace them with robots, but I know what will happen, they'll blame the "free market".

 

[88GT]

I don't know. How many employees does the average mom and pop shop have who aren't family members/stake holder in the business? What is the average percentage of expenses that are payroll related for hourly non-tipped employees? What type of business? Generally speaking, non-managerial labor makes up 20-25% of the cost of running a restaurant. Agriculture is closer to 30-40%, depending the crop. Retail can be as low as 10%. Those are industry averages, and I don't know if small businesses tend to aggregate at the top or the bottom. My guess would be the bottom, labor wise, as they would pay more for their product/raw goods as they like the economy of scale that larger players have. I did the first 3 years of an accounting degree at U of L (minoring in accounting, don't ask why) and did get far enough to be able to look through a company's books and determine if they are profitable, efficient for their industry, etc. I didn't get far enough to have more than general knowledge of individual industries, though. Without data, I'd just be pulling numbers out of my backside.

However, wage increases can't be looked at in a vacuum. How would more locals with disposable income affect mom and pop businesses? The fallacy being sold to us is that a $1 increase in wages = $1 out of our pockets at the retail level, which doesn't hold up tot he math because wages aren't the only cost of running a business. A 40% raise in non-supervisory farm workers salaries, for example, increases grocery store costs less than 3% on average (some produce more, some less, depending on how labor intensive that particular crop is). However that doesn't mean all farms would be impacted the same, as they don't have the same scale and same efficiences.

In this day and age I would count any small business with less than 25-50 employees as a mom-n-pop business.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

There are so many topics in this thread you could write books on each one, and it has already been done!

Topic #1: Theory X v/s Theory Y management views. For those unfamiliar Theory X is managers / owners who believe people are lazy; people lack ambition; people dislike responsibility; people resist change; people are gullible and not very bright. Theory Y is managers / owners who believe people are energetic; people are ambitious; people seek responsibility; people want to contribute to business growth and change; people are smart.

Is either theory completely right or wrong? No. Does either side have a percentage lead over the other? I believe strongly in Theory Y, yet I cannot prove it. For those who embrace Theory X they cannot prove it either. It is a belief system that is later backed by the actions of the manager / owner.

Topic #2: How much the expense of wages affects the cost of the product / service. A lot of this will depend upon the business in question. Some businesses derive a greater percentage of their product / service from materials, others from labor. There is no 100% pure model. My accountant derives most of his money from employee / owner wages. However, they have office supplies, insurance and so on that contribute to my final cost.

Some factories have a vast majority of their costs derive from supplies and overhead with a much lower percentage from labor.

Topic #3: CEO pay v/s regular worker pay. This has been a topic for some years according to CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratio Ballooned 1,000 Percent Since 1950: Report the disparity between the employees pay and top dogs at a company has been growing at an exponential rate. Is it worth it? I don't believe so but I do believe the company is free to engage in what will cause it terminal damage over the long run. This will eventually cause stupid businesses to fail and others to grow in their place.

Topic #4: The business owner and employee are different. Hardly. They are partners of unequal position, yet partners they are. Each has a self serving, vested interest in keeping the company going and continuing to receive a dependable revenue stream. A company does not grow without employees. Failure to credit them for business growth is an oversight, in my opinion. Even a simple task done is of value as it allows the owner to focus on important issues. This is a specific subset of the Theory X / Y models.

Topic #5: Some jobs just aren't worth more money. True (maybe), in the short term. Wrong in the long term. A job in and of itself may only be worth $X, but if an owner / manager stops there they are shorting themselves. Look at the difference between Walmart and Costco. Costco values their employees 11 Reasons To Love Costco That Have Nothing To Do With Shopping much more than Walmart. Costco saves money on constantly needing to hire in new employees and gets greater employee productivity while providing better customer service. All of which results in long term profits. Walmart may pay the stockperson $8.00 per hour because "that is all it's worth" for that task, whereas Costco pays $11.50 per hour and doesn't need to train a new stocker, hires fewer trainers because of lower turnover, has an employee who is more part of a team, etc.

Costco provides better service to its customers as well. A person who hires into the produce department may look forward to staying there for many years as they earn a fair wage. When you the customer walk in and cannot find your favorite apple in Costco all you need to do is ask Mark who was there when you first came in. Mark can tell you where they have moved or why they aren't there or when they expect to get them in. This provides better service to you, the customer, than you would receive at Walmart where the employees have changed a dozen times in the last many years and give a blank look when asked a question.

Topic #6: Companies are companies. Not true! There is a vast difference between a lawncare professional who has than ten (10) employees and one who is part of a chain and may have thousands. Small town banks are run on a very different mindset than Bank of America or Citibank although all are in the same business. This is the hardest idea to grasp on throwing out a blanket view of "business." I do believe now there really is a difference between the mindset and moral compass of larger businesses v/s smaller ones. The larger a company grows, it seems the less conscience and soul it has. Not true with all, but for a vast majority I believe it is. The manager of a small business has (overall) more empathy for his/her employees and customers than a manager in a large multinational corporation where most of the people who do the work are never interacted with.

Topic #7: The work ethic. There is something here. Painting with a broad brush the younger the worker the more they expect for less work. I believe that as we have become more diversified in our work over the last 150 years our standards have lowered. Back in the early 20th century everyone knew what hard work was because there wasn't much deviation. We were primarily an agricultural economy and working in the barn or fields was hard work. The majority of the rest who worked in factories didn't have air conditioning or worker protection and hard work was VERY hard work! A guy working at a steel mill knew that a guy working for Ford was doing hard work.

Today, hard work is... what? While there are still jobs that require hard physical labor they are in the vast minority. Electronic tools and a changing work environment have altered our views of what hard work really is. An extremely important and responsible job carries with it a great deal of time investment and stress, which is hard, but in a different way.

Our standards have lowered. Pride in our work has lowered due to a variety of causes. One is cultural. However, it cannot be overlooked that employees are not idiots. They know that they can work hard, put out quality work, take pride in their product, and still loose their job because the owner / management ships the job out of country to make an extra 1% profit. Why should the employee show loyalty when none is shown to her / him?

----

Off of all of those topics I will throw in a thought.

There is a vast difference between a "career" and a "job." The fact is that there are certain entry level positions that are not payed well because people are really not expected to stay in them. They are truly entry level to the workforce. A cashier at Walmart who starts at age 18 isn't expected to be there at age 38. It isn't a career. The same goes for most workers in the fast food industry. These are not jobs that most folks consider doing for their entire lives.

A career is different. A career is work that a person expects to spend their entire life at. It may change, but as a person goes through life they normally find a niche into which they specialize and are able to provide good work and be well rewarded for it.

Some jobs can be both. For example, many college students will find a "job" as a waitress in a restaurant. When they are through with college they move on to a career. However, some people enjoy being a waitress so much and serving others that they make a career of it. They plan to move through restaurants until they make it to the most upscale restaurant they can and some earn very good money. To throw in a cultural variation when I was in Europe I chatted with a waiter who explained that his job there is very culturally respected and wait staff in most countries in Europe are paid very well. Tips are NOT expected except in extremely happy situations. A good waiter / waitress in Paris can live very comfortably on their wage alone without tips.

In the final analysis I believe we need to engage in a national conversation on the difference between a "job" and a "career" and what is expected from each. We also need Theory X business owners to expand their horizons from just looking at short term gains and profits to what a great asset a happy, motivated employee is. Sadly, this is more personality and mindset than skill and will be hard to do.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Vigilant]

An' at's ALL HE OWES YA.........PERIOD......is his/her time........

All'em other headaches an' bullsh*t.......?........ain't they problem, cuzz........ya ain't do'n enuff for it ta matter.....

Not sure what your intention was, but that's exactly my point, he owes me the hours he's paid for at the wage I offered and he accepted! My point is that I am not going to pay more than a job is worth just because someone cannot make a living on what they agreed to work for, I mean my customers don't pay me extra for product because I'm a good guy? All those other headaches and risks are mine, you are correct, so screw ANYONE who thinks they should get more money just because! If my, or anyone's employees want more, go make more, or better yet, start your own business so someone else can tell you what to pay your people!