Electricity generation

[churchmouse]

That $100k is an order of magnitude too high. A 2kW array itself will run about $3.5k installed, another $3k for the inverter system and controls and $3-4k for battery if you are going standalone. MAYBE $2k for a professional installation.

That is still stupid spendy..............Matter of opinion I am sure but really.

 

[Stschil]

That $100k is an order of magnitude too high. A 2kW array itself will run about $3.5k installed, another $3k for the inverter system and controls and $3-4k for battery if you are going standalone. MAYBE $2k for a professional installation.

Do you links for suppliers? I must have been looking in the wrong places, the cheapest I could find on the web still put me in the 30K to 40K range.
If I could put one that size up for 20k or less, I would do it in a heartbeat!

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Sorry for jumping in here, I've read the first couple of pages so far and wanted to get this out before I forget. In case it hasn't been mentioned, you might consider a "bank" of smaller turbines that can actually be made from plywood and other inexpensive readily available items over a single unit.
How I built an electricity producing wind turbine
and building a bank of solar panels for backup when there is no wind inexpensively, try this page
How I built an electricity producing Solar Panel

ETA, I see our resident expert is here (shibumi) never mind anything I've said

 

[shibumiseeker]

Do you links for suppliers? I must have been looking in the wrong places, the cheapest I could find on the web still put me in the 30K to 40K range.
If I could put one that size up for 20k or less, I would do it in a heartbeat!

Here's your inverter-battery system and various controllers/hardware $4300 to your door:
MidNite Solar Back Up Kit With 2500 Watt Inverter & Sealed AGM Batteries

Here's name brand panels (I have several Kyocera) for $1.55/watt:
Kyocera KD235GX-LFB 235 Watt Multicrystalline Solar Module

I have seen name-brand panels by shopping around for as low as $1.05/watt. The last I bought were $1.36/watt to my door.

Add about $.20/watt for associated mounting hardware and interconnects.

Total for that system together is about $8k, leaving some wiggle room to upgrade battery or inverter.

I don't know why someone quoted you $100k. It may be because they are preying on people who have more money than sense and they only need a couple of jobs like that a year to provide a nice income. But I do know systems and how expensive they are and generally most stand alone systems at todays prices should come in at under $5 a watt for everything installed professionally. Grid-tied systems should come in at $2.50 a watt for everything installed professionally.

Many moons ago before the prices on this stuff came down I used to run a consulting business for AE system design.

 

[shibumiseeker]

That is still stupid spendy..............Matter of opinion I am sure but really.

*shrug* depends. People spend a lot more money on things where they will never see any type of return on investment. Every time you shoot a magazine you are throwing away money. Every time I pull the trigger on my .50bmg I'm sending dollar bills down range. Every time someone drinks a beer there's a couple bucks gone.

I've spent less than $10k on my current system over the last 5 years and it provides about half of my power, and each year I add a little more to my system as I can afford to and my operating costs go down since I use a generator to make up the power I don't generate via solar. Even if the generator died tomorrow and TEOTWAWKI happened, I still have power for many years to come and that is well worth the cost to me. In my case at least it would have cost about $8k to run power to my house and I would still have a monthly bill, so "stupid expensive" is irrelevant in my case.

Even if you consider that you might pay double for your power generating it yourself, if it gives you satisfaction then stupid is irrelevant there as well. Owning a .50bmg for me is stupid since I'm not competing, I'm not needing to defend my place against armored vehicles, I can't hunt with it, and my longest range currently is 400 yards. Yet I enjoy owning it.

 

[Stschil]

Here's your inverter-battery system and various controllers/hardware $4300 to your door:
MidNite Solar Back Up Kit With 2500 Watt Inverter & Sealed AGM Batteries

Here's name brand panels (I have several Kyocera) for $1.55/watt:
Kyocera KD235GX-LFB 235 Watt Multicrystalline Solar Module

I have seen name-brand panels by shopping around for as low as $1.05/watt. The last I bought were $1.36/watt to my door.

Add about $.20/watt for associated mounting hardware and interconnects.

Total for that system together is about $8k, leaving some wiggle room to upgrade battery or inverter.

I don't know why someone quoted you $100k. It may be because they are preying on people who have more money than sense and they only need a couple of jobs like that a year to provide a nice income. But I do know systems and how expensive they are and generally most stand alone systems at todays prices should come in at under $5 a watt for everything installed professionally. Grid-tied systems should come in at $2.50 a watt for everything installed professionally.

Many moons ago before the prices on this stuff came down I used to run a consulting business for AE system design.

Thank you for the links! At these prices, I can probably justify pole mounts and solar trackers. maybe even go with another inverter too.
I had all but given up.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Thank you for the links! At these prices, I can probably justify pole mounts and solar trackers. maybe even go with another inverter too.
I had all but given up.

You're welcome. The company I linked is a reputable one and the equipment I linked is first-rate equipment, so it's not like this is bargain basement stuff. You can get by even cheaper than that, but I don't recommend much of the cheaper equipment for anyone serious. Northern Arizona Wind and Sun is a company I have bought equipment from for over a decade now and they've always provided good service and support. I also buy from AES, Inc, and a couple others, but the prices tend to be very similar. I only really shop around when buying solar panels because closeouts and sales make a real difference.

 

[churchmouse]

I realize the upside to these alternative energy sources. I know how they work and how to work on, install and maintain them. Problem with us, no room for a huge array of panels and the area does not lend to a wind dynamo of any kind. Couple that with age, wife and I are looking at retirement, and there are many downsides to this for us besides the huge investment. If we ever have to bug out we have more than a few places to go. All are set up to sustain us for a good while.
I applaud those of you who have invested in this and feel comfortable with the long term use of your systems. Please keep us posted on the success and failures involved.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

Approximately how big of a solar setup would I need to just run well pump, fridge/freezer, and 2 chest deep freezers? Plus maybe water heater.

 

[churchmouse]

Approximately how big of a solar setup would I need to just run well pump, fridge/freezer, and 2 chest deep freezers? Plus maybe water heater.

You are talking a 100 amp service load (or bigger) on line power. The well and water heater are 220 single phase and are 30 amps each at least maybe more.
The freezers are 20Amps each. Massive X huge...............A 6500 w genny would not run all of that at the same time.

 

[melensdad]

Approximately how big of a solar setup would I need to just run well pump, fridge/freezer, and 2 chest deep freezers? Plus maybe water heater.

You are talking a 100 amp service load (or bigger) on line power. The well and water heater are 220 single phase and are 30 amps each at least maybe more.
The freezers are 20Amps each. Massive X huge...............A 6500 w genny would not run all of that at the same time.

You need to find out what the electrical draw is on your well pump. Pull your fridge/freezer and you deep freezes away from the wall, look at the manufactures plaque on the back, it will give you the electric load they require. The water heater will also have a wattage on what it draws. Add all those up and that is what you will need to cover.

Realize that ALL of them are unlikely to kick on at the SAME TIME but if they do they will blow out a system if the system is undersized. I agree, a 6500 watt generator may be too small for that load. But while those appliances may be on 20 and 30 amp circuits, they may not draw that much power (it all depends on the specific appliance). Its critical to check your actual appliances for draw.

I'd bet that water heater is a real power hog. Just a simple tea kettle can draw 1200 watts to heat a small pot of water.

 

[churchmouse]

You need to find out what the electrical draw is on your well pump. Pull your fridge/freezer and you deep freezes away from the wall, look at the manufactures plaque on the back, it will give you the electric load they require. The water heater will also have a wattage on what it draws. Add all those up and that is what you will need to cover.

Realize that ALL of them are unlikely to kick on at the SAME TIME but if they do they will blow out a system if the system is undersized. I agree, a 6500 watt generator may be too small for that load. But while those appliances may be on 20 and 30 amp circuits, they may not draw that much power (it all depends on the specific appliance). Its critical to check your actual appliances for draw.

I'd bet that water heater is a real power hog. Just a simple tea kettle can draw 1200 watts to heat a small pot of water.

Correct on the ratings. Remember, Inrush on start up for a pump or a blower motor will exceed the rating plate for a short time until the piece you are starting achieves direction and operating speed. Heaters not so much as they are not trying to spin rotors or fan blades from static. Water heaters usually have 2 1200 to 1800 w heaters in residential units. Some are larger. Most draw serious current. A well pump will usually be on a 30 Amp 220 single phase breaker as will the water heater but I have seen them on 60 Amp. A 6500 will only pull that rating on inrush but will maintain 75 to 80% of the full load on extended runs. You are looking at around (est.) 50 amps full load. The above equipment could pull (on start up) a lot more than that. Can you get 220 single phase at that amperage from a solar array????

 

[jeremy]

Correct on the ratings. Remember, Inrush on start up for a pump or a blower motor will exceed the rating plate for a short time until the piece you are starting achieves direction and operating speed. Heaters not so much as they are not trying to spin rotors or fan blades from static. Water heaters usually have 2 1200 to 1800 w heaters in residential units. Some are larger. Most draw serious current. A well pump will usually be on a 30 Amp 220 single phase breaker as will the water heater but I have seen them on 60 Amp. A 6500 will only pull that rating on inrush but will maintain 75 to 80% of the full load on extended runs. You are looking at around (est.) 50 amps full load. The above equipment could pull (on start up) a lot more than that. Can you get 220 single phase at that amperage from a solar array????

My Water Heater and Well Pump are on 100A 220VAC Circuits...

 

[churchmouse]

My Water Heater and Well Pump are on 100A 220VAC Circuits...

You must have a turbine or jet pump. They have kick A$$ pressure. That or it is a deep 2 stage for lift. Both require heavier breakers.
I was using a generalization of most of the units I have seen.
I think a solar or wind system to cover all of this would be massive.

 

[jeremy]

You must have a turbine or jet pump. They have kick A$$ pressure. That or it is a deep 2 stage for lift. Both require heavier breakers.
I was using a generalization of most of the units I have seen.
I think a solar or wind system to cover all of this would be massive.

8" Two Stage...
400 Gallon Water heater...

 

[churchmouse]

8" Two Stage...
400 Gallon Water heater...

Do you live in a car wash?????
Just curious.

 

[melensdad]

8" Two Stage...
400 Gallon Water heater...

Do you live in a car wash?????
Just curious.

Ditto!!! 400 gallon water heater? Is that a heat sink/storage for a large solar and/or radiant heat system?

 

[jeremy]

Do you live in a car wash?????
Just curious.

Neither...
See below...

Ditto!!! 400 gallon water heater? Is that a heat sink/storage for a large solar and/or radiant heat system?

Not yet. A Local Butcher Shop was going out of Business, the Water Heater was 2 years old and $100...

 

[churchmouse]

That is understandable but the 2 stage 8" pump would run a small hotel.....

 

[jeremy]

That is understandable but the 2 stage 8" pump would run a small hotel.....

Farm....