Electricity generation

[turnerdye1]

Depends on the alternator, most don't have the controller turn on until they reach a certain minimum rpm. That's why they have to be modified for direct drive systems. Even then they won't give near their potential because the windings were designed for that higher rpm.

Do you happen to know how to gear these down? Or a system of gears that are used just for this? Or am i better off just scrapping the idea?

 

[melensdad]

One other key point to know about wind power...

Wind maps are generally for either 80m (262') or 100m (328') in elevation not at ground level.

YUP.

Anyone who looks at the wind maps and thinks they can generate electricity at the output that the wind generator claims is naive. From my research the best someone will achieve is 25% of the claimed output, and that is based on installing the wind turbine on a reasonably tall tower (45 to 60 feet tall). I live on a ridge with a 60' elevation over the field and creek to the west, even with that advantage I'd need to put a wind turbine on a 60' tower to get even modest output. The wind generators I was looking at had 10' to 15' diameters.

 

[woowoo2]

Do you happen to know how to gear these down?

What comes to my mind is the setup on top of a drill press. You need to average around 1500 rpm, and being belt driven it may be more forgiving.
(Just guessing here)

 

[kiddchaos]

I believe there are several vertical axis wind turbines running at the IBEW (electrical training center), along I-465 across from the airport. You may want to call and inquire on cost and performance. I may do the same as I'm interested.

 

[churchmouse]

Im going to post a question i was thinking about because it has to do with this subject and you guys know alot more about it then i do.

My BOL has a small cabin and pole barn on the property. When we built these 2 buildings we wired it to run on 12v car batteries. Yes car batteries. We can run our cabin on 1 battery for a decent amount of time depending on usage and the pole barn on 2 batterys.

I was curious as to the car alternator method of windmill. My grandpa is a mechanic and has his hands on tons and tons of car/truck alternators and we have a small windmill at our BOL. Just the novelty type windmill probably 7-8ft tall.

If we were to put a car alternator on that windmill and a charger meter between the alternator and the battery do you think we would be able to charge our batteries that way? Ive been thinking about this for awhile just never posted anything until now. So do you think itll work that simply?

My granddad had a Delcotron externally regulated alternator from a GM car he got at a local junk yard. He had an old motor from a rototiller. He rigged a muti-grove pulley on the motor and mounted everything on a 2X12 plank. The motor turned the alternator that in turn (through) the regulator kept the battery lighting system charged up in his barn and shop. It was dangerous to say the least (exposed belt/pulley) but we knew better than to stick our hands in there after he stuck a small tree limb in it while running. It smashed the limb, pitched the belt and and made a horrible noise. He put the belt back on, fired it up and it ran for years like that. Probably still in that old barn.

 

[bobzilla]

YUP.

Anyone who looks at the wind maps and thinks they can generate electricity at the output that the wind generator claims is naive. From my research the best someone will achieve is 25% of the claimed output, and that is based on installing the wind turbine on a reasonably tall tower (45 to 60 feet tall). I live on a ridge with a 60' elevation over the field and creek to the west, even with that advantage I'd need to put a wind turbine on a 60' tower to get even modest output. The wind generators I was looking at had 10' to 15' diameters.

Horizontal or vertical? Again, different areas offer different results. I think I am just going to snag a Anemometer that records average wind speed and see what we really get. I know that MY PARTICULAR LOCATION sees more than the average amount of wind. Just like real estate, it's all about the location.

 

[melensdad]

Horizontal or vertical?

DOESN'T MATTER. The laws of physics apply either way. Its a simple matter of swept area of the blade surface. Horizontal is not any more efficient than vertical or visa-versa.

Again, different areas offer different results.

TRUE. My land is not too far north of the largest wind farm area in Indiana. I sit up on a ridge with my house on the crest. Below me is a few miles of basically open land to my west that is are alternately planted in corn and soybeans. Not much there to block the wind.

I think I am just going to snag a Anemometer that records average wind speed and see what we really get.

GOOD START. Make sure you put it on a pole elevated at least 50' in the air and away from trees. Make sure you leave it there for several days, or better yet a couple weeks, so you get a good average over time.

Also realize that if you mount a wind generator on your rooftop (presume 10' over your roof) then your house shape will be deflecting wind and creating low and high pressure zones so if that is your plan then put the anemometer in the area where you plan to mount the wind generator.

I know that MY PARTICULAR LOCATION sees more than the average amount of wind.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, no you do not. Based on wind charts that measure airflow A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET ABOVE YOUR HOME the wind speeds may be above average but at the levels were most people will be mounting wind generators may be VERY VERY MUCH DIFFERENT.

As I wrote before, based on my research, the VERY BEST most people can hope for is actually about 25% of the rated output.

 

[turnerdye1]

My granddad had a Delcotron externally regulated alternator from a GM car he got at a local junk yard. He had an old motor from a rototiller. He rigged a muti-grove pulley on the motor and mounted everything on a 2X12 plank. The motor turned the alternator that in turn (through) the regulator kept the battery lighting system charged up in his barn and shop. It was dangerous to say the least (exposed belt/pulley) but we knew better than to stick our hands in there after he stuck a small tree limb in it while running. It smashed the limb, pitched the belt and and made a horrible noise. He put the belt back on, fired it up and it ran for years like that. Probably still in that old barn.

Ive seen a few videos on youtube of people doing things like that but im looking for something that doesnt run on gas. I was thinking though....would i bicycle work if you put a big enough pully on it? Atleast enough to charge a 12v battery?

 

[bobzilla]

DOESN'T MATTER. The laws of physics apply either way. Its a simple matter of swept area of the blade surface. Horizontal is not any more efficient than vertical or visa-versa.




TRUE. My land is not too far north of the largest wind farm area in Indiana. I sit up on a ridge with my house on the crest. Below me is a few miles of basically open land to my west that is are alternately planted in corn and soybeans. Not much there to block the wind.



GOOD START. Make sure you put it on a pole elevated at least 50' in the air and away from trees. Make sure you leave it there for several days, or better yet a couple weeks, so you get a good average over time.

Also realize that if you mount a wind generator on your rooftop (presume 10' over your roof) then your house shape will be deflecting wind and creating low and high pressure zones so if that is your plan then put the anemometer in the area where you plan to mount the wind generator.





WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, no you do not. Based on wind charts that measure airflow A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET ABOVE YOUR HOME the wind speeds may be above average but at the levels were most people will be mounting wind generators may be VERY VERY MUCH DIFFERENT.

As I wrote before, based on my research, the VERY BEST most people can hope for is actually about 25% of the rated output.

You must have missed about 90% of my posts on this here... I have no trees to block, I have extreme flatland (even showed a quick pick) with no tree lines within MILES. I am not mounting in on the house, but in a clear area of the yard that has 3 directions clear for MILES. We have seen 80mph gusts in the spring with 60+mph straightlinewinds. We've lost multiple trees in other portions of the yard due to said winds. THe house is pounded CONSTANTLY with wind. Which is why I said, multiple times, Your results will be different than others, including mine. Come spend a week in my spare bedroom and tell me we don't have enough wind to power a turbine.

This has turned into a typical "what fuel to power a car" topic where everyone ASSumes that their commute/needs match everyone else. They don't.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Ive seen a few videos on youtube of people doing things like that but im looking for something that doesnt run on gas. I was thinking though....would i bicycle work if you put a big enough pully on it? Atleast enough to charge a 12v battery?

Yes you can. But a small permanent magnet generator will be more efficient since the average person can sustain 25-50 watts output with most people on the low end of that. So in an hour of pedaling you can put 2-4 amps into your battery bank. Nice if you are going to exercise anyway, but not a good source to depend on for power.

 

[melensdad]

You must have missed about 90% of my posts on this here... I have no trees to block, I have extreme flatland (even showed a quick pick) with no tree lines within MILES.

No sir. I've been following this thread very closely.

I am not mounting in on the house, but in a clear area of the yard that has 3 directions clear for MILES. We have seen 80mph gusts in the spring with 60+mph straightlinewinds. We've lost multiple trees in other portions of the yard due to said winds. THe house is pounded CONSTANTLY with wind. Which is why I said, multiple times, Your results will be different than others, including mine. Come spend a week in my spare bedroom and tell me we don't have enough wind to power a turbine.

Sounds very much like the pounding that my house gets. But that doesn't mean it is a good sight for wind generation. A good turbine actually shuts down during high winds and gusts.

My posts have been very respectful but it seems like you believe your land is somehow special. It may be. But not even you know that. I've done months of research into this and I will stand by my posts that say that most people will be lucky to get 25% of the rated power out of their wind generators. Most people won't mount them high enough. Don't have high enough sustained winds over long periods. Etc etc.

Your property MAY be one of the good spots. I hope it is. But again, the wind chart upon which you seem to rely, is not measuring wind at a level anywhere near where you will probably mount your generator, it measured wind a couple hundred feet above the top of where most people place their rotor.




EDIT: You may want to look over this information => http://www.otherpower.com/bottom_line.shtml

Power claims above 30% are considered unrealistic. Power/efficiency claims above 59% defy the laws of physics.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

The biggest downside of residential wind energy is the fact that it is more expensive than utility provided power right now. This is a huge negative. It is an impossible hurdle to get over until more people invest in wind energy at their homes. Only then will the prices come down significantly and offer a realistic competitive alternative to buying from a centralized utility. There's just no way to beat the economies of scale the large power plants can offer.

There's a myriad of wind turbine generators on the market now and it is only going to grow with the rising cost of electricity. Be sure that you do a full lifecycle cost analysis to ensure you are getting the most out of your investment. Look at good reputable dealers or manufacturers (if you decide on a DIY kit) that have been around for awhile. The latest and greatest now might not be the case five years down the road or they have gone out of business.

Maintenance costs IMO would be a key factor in choosing what type of wind turbine you want. Is it something you can do or do you need to have a service agreement to know that you are getting the maximum efficiency out of it. The higher the tower the better so that you are avoiding any turbulence and getting smooth airflow.

Have any data that you can share?

 

[shibumiseeker]

The biggest downside of residential wind energy is the fact that it is more expensive than utility provided power right now. This is a huge negative. It is an impossible hurdle to get over until more people invest in wind energy at their homes. Only then will the prices come down significantly and offer a realistic competitive alternative to buying from a centralized utility. There's just no way to beat the economies of scale the large power plants can offer.

Of all of the renewable energy systems out there, wind is one that lends itself really well to cost per watt reduction with increasing scale. I'm fond of multiple smaller turbines for the redundancy, but realistically speaking the best systems from a cost standpoint are the largest ones. A megawatt turbine costs almost an order of magnitude less per watt installed and maintained than a 10kW turbine.

That's why grid-tied PV is often a better fit for the average homeowner. You don't have to mess with a battery system, and it's very modular, you can start small and add a bit at a time. Not something that works as well with wind.

A smaller wind turbine combined with PV is a very good mix for those of us in Indiana (like myself) who are completely off-grid.

 

[churchmouse]

Ive seen a few videos on youtube of people doing things like that but im looking for something that doesnt run on gas. I was thinking though....would i bicycle work if you put a big enough pully on it? Atleast enough to charge a 12v battery?

A new internally regulated alternator has to turn 1500 plus RPM's to be anything close to putting power back into the battery's. Your search for free energy is not out there right now. There is always a cost and usually involves a gas genny. We replenish the battery bank systems with small 2 cycle 1800 watt genny's. This in turn runs a good charger. They do not consume much and 1 tank of fuel (1 Gallon) will bring a 4 battery bank back up if they are not overused. 1 gallon a weekend usually if you use some sense with your power. That is as cheap as it gets in my opinion. If you run them deep into cycle we use a 5HP 3500 watt unit and 1 gallon or so usually tops them off.
6 of us going to the cabin Friday night. I will run the genny for a bit to top off the Battery's as they have been used a bit this week. We will leave Sunday afternoon and they will still be viable with no charge time. If you mess up and leave things on (as the wife has) you will flat line the battery's. Gell cell deep cycle marine batt's usually recover well enough from this.

 

[jeremy]

I think some persons here need research the differences between an Alternator, and a Generator....

 

[churchmouse]

I think some persons here need research the differences between an Alternator, and a Generator....

I know the difference.

 

[jeremy]

You must have missed about 90% of my posts on this here... I have no trees to block, I have extreme flatland (even showed a quick pick) with no tree lines within MILES. I am not mounting in on the house, but in a clear area of the yard that has 3 directions clear for MILES. We have seen 80mph gusts in the spring with 60+mph straightlinewinds. We've lost multiple trees in other portions of the yard due to said winds. THe house is pounded CONSTANTLY with wind. Which is why I said, multiple times, Your results will be different than others, including mine. Come spend a week in my spare bedroom and tell me we don't have enough wind to power a turbine.

This has turned into a typical "what fuel to power a car" topic where everyone ASSumes that their commute/needs match everyone else. They don't.

I live "around the corner" from you in the same wind plain. To generate a reliable amount of Wind Speed in OUR AO you need to have the Turbine approximately 200+ feet in the air to create the amount of power that you are desiring...

Can you create power at lower heights, yes you can. Can you hit the 5+Kw mark at less than a 100' maybe, but I would say it is highly doubtful. Also have you checked with your Counties Zoning Board on what they have to say about it....

 

[jeremy]

I know the difference.

Was not referring to you though...

 

[shibumiseeker]

Was not referring to you though...

Me?

 

[jeremy]

Me?

Sure why not....