Edward Snowden - The NSA leaker, Fascinating

[Trooper]

I didn't say that work was being done only in the 70s.

LBJ had Army CI agents going after the anti war movement in the late 1960s.

Read the Church commission report.

 

[88GT]

The real question is whether there is enough manpower to even analyze most of what they have gathered. Obama is gutting the Intelligence agencies. Over a million intelligence analysts have been let go. DIA has lost 80% of their manpower. CIA has lost about 30% and NSA about 40%.

It's way more simple than that, I'm betting. They simply need way to be able to sift through the data to find what they want. Kinda like a library. You want a book on dinosaurs? Step this way. How to knit? That's over here. Except that with computational capabilities these days, you don't even have to organize the data any particular way. You just have to be able to create a program that can read the data in the format in which it's stored. A simple search function based on key words, dates, phrases, names, numbers.

After Vietnam, most of the Army's intel assets were disbanded. A lot had to do with the Church commission. LBJ abused the Intel community, using it for political purposes. Especially Counter Intel agents (HUMINT).

Up until the mid '70s, soldiers did everything.

Wait a minute? Are you saying that intel prior to the 70's was military? That there was no non-military intelligence gathering machine in place?

 

[Jerchap2]

How bad the cuts in the IC have been

Clapper: Sequester cuts could leave US intel blind to next attack​

Clapper: Sequester cuts could leave US intel blind to next attack - The Hill's DEFCON Hill
Cuts Make Intelligence Failures Likely, Top Intel Official Says Defense.gov News Article: Cuts Make Intelligence Failures Likely, Top Intel Official Says

There is even more.

The sequester cuts are a joke. They are not real cuts, only cuts in the rate of growth. And the federal government decides what is cut. Cutting White House tours while giving billions in weapons and aircraft to the muslim brotherhood regime in Egypt? Wake up. Their own OIG reports hundreds of billions of dollars in waste, fraud and abuse in the executive branch alone every year. Don't fall for the sequester narrative the lamestream media (thanks Sara Palin for that term) puts out there, it is a fraud.

 

[Jerchap2]

Back on topic, this guy is a hero. Listen to the interview, and you have to admire this fine young man, who gave up his own liberty so that the country he loves could at least have a chance to try to get theirs back. I admire him greatly. And echoing at least one who posted early in this thread, I would like to think that I would have done the same thing in his place. But speculating about it and actually doing it are very different things. If you have not heard it, listen to the 12-minute interview. This guy is the real deal, IMHO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kaRvzQ887HM

 

[Trooper]

It's way more simple than that, I'm betting. They simply need way to be able to sift through the data to find what they want. Kinda like a library. You want a book on dinosaurs? Step this way. How to knit? That's over here. Except that with computational capabilities these days, you don't even have to organize the data any particular way. You just have to be able to create a program that can read the data in the format in which it's stored. A simple search function based on key words, dates, phrases, names, numbers.






Wait a minute? Are you saying that intel prior to the 70's was military? That there was no non-military intelligence gathering machine in place?

No, I am saying that the military did everything in-house. No civil servants, no contractors. It was self contained. After Vietnam, much of the duties of the military were given over to civil service then to contractors. Now days the cooks, the mechanics, the supply techs, and just about anything in electronics is done by a contractor. yes, there are military trained to those jobs, they are often not allowed to do them.

As for the the sorting, yes the machine does that well. but it still takes a trained analyst to see the patterns. Also to do the fusion (interpretation of the various INTs).

 

[Trooper]

The sequester cuts are a joke. They are not real cuts, only cuts in the rate of growth. And the federal government decides what is cut. Cutting White House tours while giving billions in weapons and aircraft to the muslim brotherhood regime in Egypt? Wake up. Their own OIG reports hundreds of billions of dollars in waste, fraud and abuse in the executive branch alone every year. Don't fall for the sequester narrative the lamestream media (thanks Sara Palin for that term) puts out there, it is a fraud.

Then why is Obama cutting the military by a third? That is not rate of growth. And the Intel community is facing 40% cuts across the board, some agencies harder than others.

Is it to weaken the country? Or shift the money to Obamacare? Or both?

 

[88GT]

No, I am saying that the military did everything in-house. No civil servants, no contractors. It was self contained. After Vietnam, much of the duties of the military were given over to civil service then to contractors. Now days the cooks, the mechanics, the supply techs, and just about anything in electronics is done by a contractor. yes, there are military trained to those jobs, they are often not allowed to do them.

Okay. I'm with ya now. That makes sense. All good.

As for the the sorting, yes the machine does that well. but it still takes a trained analyst to see the patterns. Also to do the fusion (interpretation of the various INTs).

I suppose if one thought that the intelligence gathering being conducted in violation of the law and for political purposes was done for anything other than identifying political enemies, you might have a point. Frankly, I think this is all done for the sake of creating one gigantic database that will act as a de facto registration for whatever identifying detail they want to target.

In other words, if they really were trying to catch bona fide criminals, terrorists, and the like, it might be necessary to establish relationships, patterns, and histories. But since I don't see this as anything more than large-scale cataloguing of the U.S. population, I don't really see a need for analysis. Input: search term; Output: all individuals with positive status for search term.

 

[Trooper]

Okay. I'm with ya now. That makes sense. All good.



I suppose if one thought that the intelligence gathering being conducted in violation of the law and for political purposes was done for anything other than identifying political enemies, you might have a point. Frankly, I think this is all done for the sake of creating one gigantic database that will act as a de facto registration for whatever identifying detail they want to target.

In other words, if they really were trying to catch bona fide criminals, terrorists, and the like, it might be necessary to establish relationships, patterns, and histories. But since I don't see this as anything more than large-scale cataloguing of the U.S. population, I don't really see a need for analysis. Input: search term; Output: all individuals with positive status for search term.

I think that most people would agree with you. However, as we saw with the misuse of the IRS (and those people did it willing, at least in Nixon's day the IRS refused), there are too many willing to do political work.

And remember that this whole operation was done within the guidelines of the law. There was court oversight, search warrants and everything else required. Yet the potential for corruption is huge.

 

[Jerchap2]

Then why is Obama cutting the military by a third? That is not rate of growth. And the Intel community is facing 40% cuts across the board, some agencies harder than others.

Is it to weaken the country? Or shift the money to Obamacare? Or both?

Obama hates this country, and especially the military. He thinks we are a colonial power that has gotten to where we are at the expense of less-developed countries. Just read his books. He says clearly that he wants to institute the "dreams of his father," that the US become a third-rate, powerless, banana republic. Repeating myself, BHO hates America, and is doing anything and everything he can to destroy it. It is all about control. "We the people" are stupid and must be controlled by the benevolent dictators, who decide how we live, what we can do, what we eat, how we educate our children, and on and on ad infinitum. All in our own interest, don't you know. Read Mark Levin's "Liberty and Tyranny" and "Ameritopia" books and you will understand the motivations and the master plans of these Godless leftists, and why we must engage now before it is too late.

 

[Jerchap2]

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell

 

[Bunnykid68]

Mr Snowden is screwed, both parties want his head for treason, even if they havent said treason yet.

 

[hornadylnl]

Mr Snowden is screwed, both parties want his head for treason, even if they havent said treason yet.

Boehner Calls Snowden a Traitor - NYTimes.com

 

[Bunnykid68]

Boehner Calls Snowden a Traitor - NYTimes.com

Mirth McConnel said something similar earlier too.

 

[HoughMade]

We all decry the oath breakers in Congress and the White House and hold this oath breaker up as a hero?

....and what makes anyone think the Chinese would have to kidnap him and "force" him to tell what he knows?

 

[Jerchap2]

We all decry the oath breakers in Congress and the White House and hold this oath breaker up as a hero?

....and what makes anyone think the Chinese would have to kidnap him and "force" him to tell what he knows?

This man is a patriot. Remember the German soldier committing heinous acts and claiming they were "only following orders?" He did break an oath, but out of good conscious for a higher purpose. If you have not seen it, you should really watch this 12-minute video to get a sense of the man and his answers to questions about why he did what he did, and how he could have made a lot of money selling information to our enemies, but chose not to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kaRvzQ887HM

 

[deal me in]

Let's see, Boehner, Mccain, Graham, and Mcconnel say he is a traitor. I don't have to know anything about the man to deduce that he is a hero. You can't go wrong taking the opposite side as that group of losers.

 

[hornadylnl]

Assange - traitor

Snowden - hero




Darn auto correct

 

[Jerchap2]

Let's see, Boehner, Mccain, Graham, and Mcconnel say he is a traitor. I don't have to know anything about the man to deduce that he is a hero. You can't go wrong taking the opposite side as that group of losers.

Amen! Rep!

 

[Jerchap2]

Some are using the Framers to justify the current NSA programs, but Mark Levin, in an excellent monologue, disagrees and sets the record straight on what the founders actually thought about search and seizure as they drafted and argued over the Constitution:

Mark Levin explains the Framers’ perspective on search and seizure » The Right Scoop -

 

[HoughMade]

....If you have not seen it, you should really watch this 12-minute video to get a sense of the man and his answers to questions about why he did what he did, and how he could have made a lot of money selling information to our enemies, but chose not to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kaRvzQ887HM

I watched it. He is well spoken and highly intelligent. Then again, so is Barack Obama. Why believe him over BHO? Because he's saying what you want to hear?

Of course he's not selling secrets....he said he's not. When a government employee, you wouldn't believe him, but now you believe him? Again, why? Because he saying what you already believe?

Confirmation bias on steroids.