Downtown Indy Riots/damage overnight...

[Keith_Indy]

More interesting is whether this constitutes some sort of whitewashing of the Civil War itself. An unintended consequence might be that it diminishes the importance of that war in our nation's consciousness. That's my only reservation.

Well, the way American and World history is taught in many places that's already the case.

 

[sparky32]

Honestly not sure how I feel about this. Taking down a confederate monument doesn’t actually solve anything does it?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...onfederate-monument-garfield-park/3144181001/

It solves nothing. Hogsett is a Dbag and erasing history will not solve problems you learn from the history.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Can't wait until they start breaking up the networks and reveal who is pulling the strings on the violence.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-evidence-shows-extremist-groups-foreign-actors-hijack-george-floyd-protests

Attorney General Bill Barr announced Thursday that investigations of recent violence spinning out of protests yielded evidence that not only are various "extremist" groups taking advantage of the unrest for their own ends, but that “foreign actors” are also getting involved.


After expressing deep sympathies over George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis police custody, Barr said at a press briefing that “three different sets of actors” are involved in the demonstrations -- namely peaceful protesters, looters and “extremist agitators that hijack protests” to pursue various agendas.


Barr said that there is evidence that those extremists include Antifa and other groups of different political persuasions, as well as “foreign actors playing all sides to exacerbate the violence.”


FBI Director Christopher Wray elaborated on this, noting that "these individuals have set out to sow discord and upheaval."

 

[BigRed]

Honestly not sure how I feel about this. Taking down a confederate monument doesn’t actually solve anything does it?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...onfederate-monument-garfield-park/3144181001/

I, on the other hand, know exactly how I feel about it.... not only this particular decision but those like it across many states.

It is little more than an attempt to "cleanse and rewrite" history; most often by those ignorant of history. I like to refer to these folks as the "american taliban".

 

[BigRed]

When do the calls to remove statues of G. Washington start to get some attention?

Oh wait... they already are.

 

[sparky32]

When do the calls to remove statues of G. Washington start to get some attention?

Oh wait... they already are.

Very slippery slope. They already skip lots of past history because it is to "graphic" in schools. If we do not learn from the past some of these things can happen again.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't care whether it appeases anyone or not.

My only point is that the relevance of monuments to losers is lost on me.

Something isn't a problem until its a problem. If its a problem now and can't really be justified, I don't know what the big deal is. Like Hogsett said, put it in a museum or something. A testament to what people thought was important in a bygone era but isn't really that important now.

More interesting is whether this constitutes some sort of whitewashing of the Civil War itself. An unintended consequence might be that it diminishes the importance of that war in our nation's consciousness. That's my only reservation.

You know, I guess we really should tear down all the memorials to WWII. I mean we treated our own American citizens of Japanese descent pretty crappy. Best to stop memorializing that little dark stain on our history too, eh? Why are we glorifying sending our own citizens to internment camps?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

When do the calls to remove statues of G. Washington start to get some attention?

Oh wait... they already are.

Yep, better raze the Jefferson Memorial too, you know, since he was a slave owner.

 

[Brown]

Heard BML is organizing a rally in front of the Brownsburg Town Hall. Can't remember the date, but was supposed to be during a town council meeting. Out working the Kroger parking lot to drum up support yesterday morning.

Suspect it will be a regular old rally, as most folks out this way aren't really the rioting type. BPD doesn't put up with much nonsense, either. Show up, make your point, thank folks for coming, and head home.

Believe social media claimed a 5pm kick off. that should also coincide with the farmers market in the same location. Next Thursday June 11th.

 

[T.Lex]

You know, I guess we really should tear down all the memorials to WWII. I mean we treated our own American citizens of Japanese descent pretty crappy. Best to stop memorializing that little dark stain on our history too, eh? Why are we glorifying sending our own citizens to internment camps?

Are you actually saying that the entirety of the Confederacy is equivalent to the entirety of the US during WWII?

If there are any monuments to the officials who put Japanese into camps, I would wholly advocate for those to be taken down. That's not something we should glorify.

If there are monuments to the Americans who suffered through those camps, I am wholly supportive of those.

We should not forget these embarrassing incidents in our history (or any of the many others), but neither should we glorify those responsible for the embarrassment.

My understanding is that the Confederate memorial in Garfield Park is intended to honor the subjects to the Confederacy who didn't really have much choice in the matter. I think that's fine, if that's what it is.

For that matter, I think there's a monument (or at least a plaque) that was purchased by Confederate soldiers to honor the general who ran the POW camp. (Morton?) That's a bit tricky, right?

 

[sparky32]

Every coutry has a past and we must learn from it. Many countrys have horrible things that have happened in history. We all have s%@$ stains we need to learn from and not forget. Some of the things our "leaders" have said is downright scary.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Are you actually saying that the entirety of the Confederacy is equivalent to the entirety of the US during WWII?

If there are any monuments to the officials who put Japanese into camps, I would wholly advocate for those to be taken down. That's not something we should glorify.

If there are monuments to the Americans who suffered through those camps, I am wholly supportive of those.

We should not forget these embarrassing incidents in our history (or any of the many others), but neither should we glorify those responsible for the embarrassment.

My understanding is that the Confederate memorial in Garfield Park is intended to honor the subjects to the Confederacy who didn't really have much choice in the matter. I think that's fine, if that's what it is.

For that matter, I think there's a monument (or at least a plaque) that was purchased by Confederate soldiers to honor the general who ran the POW camp. (Morton?) That's a bit tricky, right?

Well, here ya go... the man who signed the order himself. https://www.nps.gov/frde/index.htm

Erasing history is a very slippery slope.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

No more war memorials of any type. I mean, somebody suffered in that war, right? We shouldn’t glorify anybody who used violent actions to push their societal beliefs upon another.

From now on, only celebrity monuments!

 

[sparky32]

Are you actually saying that the entirety of the Confederacy is equivalent to the entirety of the US during WWII?

If there are any monuments to the officials who put Japanese into camps, I would wholly advocate for those to be taken down. That's not something we should glorify.

If there are monuments to the Americans who suffered through those camps, I am wholly supportive of those.

We should not forget these embarrassing incidents in our history (or any of the many others), but neither should we glorify those responsible for the embarrassment.

My understanding is that the Confederate memorial in Garfield Park is intended to honor the subjects to the Confederacy who didn't really have much choice in the matter. I think that's fine, if that's what it is.

For that matter, I think there's a monument (or at least a plaque) that was purchased by Confederate soldiers to honor the general who ran the POW camp. (Morton?) That's a bit tricky, right?

Didnt a policy by our president FDR do this??? Should we erase him from everything? Trust me I dont like the guy but you see my point??

 

[T.Lex]

Well, here ya go... the man who signed the order himself. https://www.nps.gov/frde/index.htm

Erasing history is a very slippery slope.

Indeed - I even used the search function and there doesn't appear to be any mention of the internment camps at all.

That history is indeed erased, there.

ETA:
Quick memory refreshing - any monuments to Stimson and Dewitt?

 

[T.Lex]

Didnt a policy by our president FDR do this??? Should we erase him from everything? Trust me I dont like the guy but you see my point??

We are more aligned than unaligned on that part.

 

[Tombs]

I don't care whether it appeases anyone or not.

My only point is that the relevance of monuments to losers is lost on me.

Something isn't a problem until its a problem. If its a problem now and can't really be justified, I don't know what the big deal is. Like Hogsett said, put it in a museum or something. A testament to what people thought was important in a bygone era but isn't really that important now.

More interesting is whether this constitutes some sort of whitewashing of the Civil War itself. An unintended consequence might be that it diminishes the importance of that war in our nation's consciousness. That's my only reservation.

Can we tear down the forget the death camps in germany?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Indeed - I even used the search function and there doesn't appear to be any mention of the internment camps at all.

That history is indeed erased, there.

ETA:
Quick memory refreshing - any monuments to Stimson and Dewitt?

From the context I'm guessing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_L._Stimson#Legacy

Mount Stimson in Montana's Glacier National Park is named after Stimson, who in the 1890s hiked and assisted George Bird Grinnell in surveying the area and later supported creating the park.
The Henry L. Stimson Center, a private research institute in Washington, DC, advocates what it says is Stimson's "practical, non-partisan approach" to international relations.[50]

The Benjamin Franklin-class ballistic missile submarine USS Henry L. Stimson (SSBN-655) was commissioned in 1966.
Stimson's name graces the Henry L. Stimson Middle School in Huntington Station, Long Island; a residential building on the campus of Stony Brook University; as well as a dorm at his alma mater Phillips Academy.


Stimson is also commemorated by the New York City Bar Association, where he served as President from 1937 to 1939, with the Henry L. Stimson Medal. The medal is awarded annually to outstanding Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York.

Nothing on Dewitt...

 

[Cameramonkey]

The protests are peaceful thus far and have not required police action.

According to one Libertarian podcaster here in town, you guys (and your use of military gear/tactics) are the reason for the rioting. If you didnt use aggressive tactics to disperse them and start pepperballing, spraying, and grenading them, they wouldnt escalate to rioting. So its all YOUR fault. And if you were forced to wear only your Daily patrol uniform, you'd be less likely to be overly aggressive and cause more trouble. (kinda like that NFL no helmet idea to reduce injury)

And then there is my leftist friend and her friend that say you guys shouldn't be so mean and shouldn't be in riot gear. When you have a large group of protesters throwing rocks, etc. ONE of you should simply walk up to the crowd and talk nicely to them and have a heart to heart conversation and just de-escalate the situation calmly. I pointed out that just flat out wouldn't work in a mob mentality situation and used the photo of the cop separated from his group being shielded by the peaceful protesters as an example of how that wasn't reasonable. Followed by the photo of the guy unconscious on the ground that had been kicked so hard his teeth were laying on the pavement around him as an example of the end result of her suggestion. She really didn't have a good comeback to that except to say "that's what they have shields for, to protect themselves from thrown objects." I guess she expects you to stand there and take it until they get tired and go home on their own. Clueless pie in the sky Pollyanas. (and she apparently forgot that earlier in the conversation she said you shouldnt have the shields anyway)

Yep, better raze the Jefferson Memorial too, you know, since he was a slave owner.

Dude, where ya been? you're about 10 years late to the party on that one.

 

[T.Lex]

From the context I'm guessing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_L._Stimson#Legacy

At least he was conflicted on the internment, but was ultimately complicit.

Human experience is a mixed bag. Clearly, he did some "right" things along with the awful. I'm totally in favor of representing both.

Another point - each generation gets to decide what is important and what to remember. Those of us who can be counted with Cold War Warriors will probably be shunned at some point in the future for being wrong about socialism. So be it.

Times change. If the newer generations don't want to see confederate flags or monuments, or remember why they are important or nuanced... so be it.