Do you TRULY want a good AR-15 or do you want crap?

[Trigger Time]

I respectfully disagree. We're talking good vs bad AR15 here. IMO, "Go to war" is a term used to describe a weapon constructed using parts of sufficient quality to perform the task at hand be it a red dawn, shtf, wrol, etc... An AR with wooden dowel sticks in the fire control group instead of steel pins is not "go to war" ready. A properly staked gas key may look good but if the manufacturer used soft Chinesium fake grade 8 screws, it's not "go to war" ready. That weapon may work for a few shots or a few years but would you trust your life to it?

you get it. No one is talking about going to Iraq.

 

[Trigger Time]

I love the "go to war" rifle phrase. Keyboard commandoism at its finest.

If someone says that XYZ firearm would be their "go to war" rifle, that tells me that person will never be going to war.

many have already been to war so there is a standard they expect their guns to live up to. Many military and ex military aren't gun guys and don't know **** about guns.
Go to war is a term many top veteran instructors use and also civilians and law enforcement who refuse to be victims. Not just keyboard commandos.

 

[Trigger Time]

People that buy cheap pistols and cheap AR's are the biggest **** talkers I've ever seen. They gotta justify that hi-point purchase.
even with videos from major gun reviewers and instructors they think they still know best because their **** gun has never malfunctioned. That's fine for you but don't try to send others down the wrong path. Just because you can't afford better or won't because you're Too cheap it doesn't mean others are the same. And yes all machines can and will fail but I prefer to increase my odds by not starting cheap and at a disadvantage.
Start a cheap AR thread so everyone can stroke themseves in it

 

[Leadeye]

I built this thing out of mixed parts back in the 80s and it hasn't missed a beat any more than my old triangular hand guard Colt. I think the platform itself works pretty good in any form.

 

[Trigger Time]

I built this thing out of mixed parts back in the 80s and it hasn't missed a beat any more than my old triangular hand guard Colt. I think the platform itself works pretty good in any form.

full auto, I just got a chubbie

 

[MohawkSlim]

I love to see all you AR "experts" recommending new AR owners spend $2500 on their first gun.

However, they shouldn't be buying that DD Noveske LMT Colt. They should be buying a Radical, $1500 worth of ammo, and $500 worth of training. Once they jump through those hoops, you won't have to recommend much at all.

 

[Trigger Time]

I love to see all you AR "experts" recommending new AR owners spend $2500 on their first gun.

However, they shouldn't be buying that DD Noveske LMT Colt. They should be buying a Radical, $1500 worth of ammo, and $500 worth of training. Once they jump through those hoops, you won't have to recommend much at all.

who recommended a $2500 AR?
i started the thread and I was just informing new gun people about the quality of BCM rifles since there has been a lot of newbie questions lately on what AR to buy. I even stated in the thread if you read it that someone could simply buy a BCM upper and be good to go. I've bought several from BCM for sub $700 (uppers complete)
and used ones for 450 and down. Just bought the last one with a BCG and charging handle for $350 used.
So I certainly never recommended anything unafordable for the average guy. If someone is buying guns over paying their bills then The type of AR they buy is the least of their problems.
also I actualy recommended against new noveske. I also recommended a $500 AR made by Aero precision sold by brownells.
why do I not recommend Anderson and the lower end palmetto? Because I have personaly seen MANY of their products out of spec. Some people have some good ones. I have Anderson and palmetto too but for a first time buyer I recommend BCM. Why take a chance and have a negative experience?

 

[Hop]

Cheap isn't always bad.
Expensive isn't always good.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough.
INGO isn't M4C.

 

[JollyMon]

I am shooting tonight with my bcm, but I also expect most who talk **** about bcm don't shoot. Do I trust bcm with my life, yes I do.

 

[avboiler11]

INGO isn't M4C.

Thank God, Allah and FSM.

 

[Woobie]

many have already been to war so there is a standard they expect their guns to live up to. Many military and ex military aren't gun guys and don't know **** about guns.
Go to war is a term many top veteran instructors use and also civilians and law enforcement who refuse to be victims. Not just keyboard commandos.

I don't think that is the context most people use it in. They say "my go to war rifle" and talk about that long shot, or that TR class where they learned to flag their buddy while clearing a room. Sorry, you're not going to war. In the unlikely event that Red Dawn happens, it won't be your rifle that gets you killed. It will be a team of people with better training and more firepower that gets you killed. Or you will get sidelined by dehydration or infection. Or maybe it will be lack of proper medical care. Or maybe you'll have a heart attack because you're not in combat shape. Or you won't know how to break contact. By all means, get a quality rifle. I'm not arguing against that. But people see war as a question of having war fighting equipment. Vickers, McNamara and Lamb can call their rifles whatever they want. But those guys could get more done with a Hi-Point carbine than most people could with SCAR 17.

Owning a set of Snap-On wrenches doesn't prepare you to fix a car. I wouldn't dissuade someone from buying them, or call them a waste of money. But I wouldn't turn you loose on a transmission rebuild either. And if you call your ratchet your "fix a car" ratchet, I'll probably make fun of you. Chip Foose or Ray Everham can call their ratchet whatever they want.

 

[KG1]

I am shooting tonight with my bcm, but I also expect most who talk **** about bcm don't shoot. Do I trust bcm with my life, yes I do.

Who's talking **** about BCM? I know I have'nt.

 

[KG1]

I don't think that is the context most people use it in. They say "my go to war rifle" and talk about that long shot, or that TR class where they learned to flag their buddy while clearing a room. Sorry, you're not going to war. In the unlikely event that Red Dawn happens, it won't be your rifle that gets you killed. It will be a team of people with better training and more firepower that gets you killed. Or you will get sidelined by dehydration or infection. Or maybe it will be lack of proper medical care. Or maybe you'll have a heart attack because you're not in combat shape. Or you won't know how to break contact. By all means, get a quality rifle. I'm not arguing against that. But people see war as a question of having war fighting equipment. Vickers, McNamara and Lamb can call their rifles whatever they want. But those guys could get more done with a Hi-Point carbine than most people could with SCAR 17.

Owning a set of Snap-On wrenches doesn't prepare you to fix a car. I wouldn't dissuade someone from buying them, or call them a waste of money. But I wouldn't turn you loose on a transmission rebuild either. And if you call your ratchet your "fix a car" ratchet, I'll probably make fun of you. Chip Foose or Ray Everham can call their ratchet whatever they want.

Spot on. I think it was mentioned upthread in the event that SHTF the weakest link in the chain will not be the rifle for most.

 

[KJQ6945]

This thread just keeps getting better and better.

 

[knutty]

I always try to point new AR15 buyers to BCM, Colt and LMT but they inevitably end up buying cheap. Oh well, more for me

 

[Chase515]

I'll put a bcm upper on my next build. Spikes crusader lower with a bcm upper will be a good gun to fight my army of attacking paper targets.

 

[Trigger Time]

I don't think that is the context most people use it in. They say "my go to war rifle" and talk about that long shot, or that TR class where they learned to flag their buddy while clearing a room. Sorry, you're not going to war. In the unlikely event that Red Dawn happens, it won't be your rifle that gets you killed. It will be a team of people with better training and more firepower that gets you killed. Or you will get sidelined by dehydration or infection. Or maybe it will be lack of proper medical care. Or maybe you'll have a heart attack because you're not in combat shape. Or you won't know how to break contact. By all means, get a quality rifle. I'm not arguing against that. But people see war as a question of having war fighting equipment. Vickers, McNamara and Lamb can call their rifles whatever they want. But those guys could get more done with a Hi-Point carbine than most people could with SCAR 17.

Owning a set of Snap-On wrenches doesn't prepare you to fix a car. I wouldn't dissuade someone from buying them, or call them a waste of money. But I wouldn't turn you loose on a transmission rebuild either. And if you call your ratchet your "fix a car" ratchet, I'll probably make fun of you. Chip Foose or Ray Everham can call their ratchet whatever they want.

You're preaching to the choir. I don't dispute anything you said but this thread isn't about any of this

 

[Woobie]

You're preaching to the choir. I don't dispute anything you said but this thread isn't about any of this

You're right. Sorry for the derail.

 

[KG1]

My apologies as well. Did'nt mean to ruffle any feathers by any of my comments. I respect TT's knowledge when it comes to firearms and his willingness to share his experience. For the record I think BCM is a solid choice for the money spent. That's never been in question. I'm out.

 

[Woobie]

My apologies as well. Did'nt mean to ruffle any feathers by any of my comments. I respect TT's knowledge when it comes to firearms and his willingness to share his experience. For the record I think BCM is a solid choice for the money spent. That's never been in question. I'm out.

Well said.